Think again if you want to join one of those seduction communities. (I´ve been on them, most are filled with crazy maniacs like this, some aren´t and very few of those have really good content)
For those who have been involved, what are your thoughts? My personal experience has been that they are a very supportive group of people, usually very happy to help wing and improve your game, even at times give emotional support. However, out of the community I was with of about 30 core members two have been deranged in the head, in the sense that they were incredibly sexist and happily threw around jokes about abuse.
Of course there are sick people inside and outside of the community - but I would be interested to see whether there is any correlation between those within the community and being more mentally unstable - as most come in with a bitter view on women.
I am more creating this topic to get an insight into others' experiences in the community.
For anyone who is unfamiliar with the community, read a book called The Game by Neil Strauss and go from there:
Have you ever noticed that the really attractive women never seem to be attracted "nice" guys?
Of course you have.
Just like me, I'm sure you've had attractive female friends that always seemed to date "jerks"... but for some reason they were never romantically interested in YOU.
What's going on here?
It's actually very simple...
Women don't base their choices of men on how "nice" a guy is. They choose the men they do because they feel a powerful GUT LEVEL ATTRACTION for them.
And guess what?
Being nice doesn't make a woman FEEL that powerful ATTRACTION.
And being NICE doesn't make a woman CHOOSE you.
I realize that this doesn't make a lot of logical sense, and it's hard to ACCEPT... but GET OVER IT.
Until you accept this FACT and begin to act on it, you'll NEVER have the success with women that you want.
MISTAKE #2: Trying To “Convince Her To Like You"
What do most guys do when they meet a woman that they REALLY like... but she's just notinterested?
Right! They try to "convince" the woman to feel differently.
Well, I have news for you... YOU WILL NEVER CHANGE HOW A WOMAN "FEELS" WHEN IT COMES TO ATTRACTION!
Never, ever, EVER.
You cannot CONVINCE a woman to feel differently about you with "logic and reasoning".
Think about it.
If a woman doesn't "feel it" for you, how in the world do you expect to change that FEELING by being "reasonable" with her?
But we all do it.
When a woman just isn't interested, we beg, plead, chase, and do our best to change her mind.
Bad idea. One that will never work.
MISTAKE #3: Looking To Her For Approval Or Permission
In our desire to please women (which we mistakenly think will make them like us), us guys are always doing things to get a woman's "approval" or "permission".
Another HORRIBLE idea.
Women are NEVER attracted to the types of men who kiss up to them... EVER.
Don't get me wrong here.
You don't have to treat women BADLY for them to like you.
But if you think that treating a woman well means "always getting her approval and permission for things", think again.
You will never succeed by looking for approval. Women actually get ANNOYED at men who seek their approval.
Doubt me? Just ask any attractive woman if Wussy guys who chase her around and want her approval annoy her...
MISTAKE #4: Trying To “Buy” Her Affection With Food And Gifts
How many times have you taken a woman out to a nice dinner, bought her gifts and flowers, and had her REJECT you for someone who didn't treat her even HALF as well as you did?
If you're like me, then you've had it happen a LOT.
Well guess what?
It's only NATURAL when this happens...
That's right, I said NATURAL.
When you do these things, you send a clear message:
"I don't think you'll like me for who I am, so I'm going to try to buy your attention and affection".
Your good intentions usually come across to women as over-compensation for insecurity, and weak attempts at manipulation. That's right, I said that women see this as MANIPULATION.
MISTAKE #5: Sharing “How You Feel” Too Early In The Relationship With Her
Another huge and unfortunate mistake that most men make with women is sharing how they "feel" too early on.
Attractive women are rare.
And they get a LOT of attention from men.
Most men don't realize this, but attractive women are being approached in one way or another ALL THE
An attractive woman is often approached several times a DAY by men who are interested. This translate into dozens of times per week, and often HUNDREDS of times per month.
And guess what?
Attractive women have usually dated a LOT of men.
That's right. They have EXPERIENCE.
They know what to expect.
And one thing that turns an attractive women off and sends her running away faster than just about anything is a guy who starts saying "You know, I really, REALLY like you" after one or two dates.
This signals to the woman that you're just like all the other guys who fall for her too fast... and can't control themselves.
Don't do it. Lean back. Relax.
There's a much better way...
MISTAKE #6: Not “Getting” How Attraction Works For Women
Women are VERY different from men when it comes to ATTRACTION.
You need to accept this fact, and deal with it.
When a man sees a beautiful, young, sexy woman, he INSTANTLY feels a sexual attraction.
But does the same apply for women?
Do women feel sexual attraction to men based mostly on looks? Or is something else going on?
Well, after studying this topic for over five full years now, I can tell you that women usually have their "attraction mechanisms" triggered by things OTHER than looks.
Have you ever noticed that you see a lot more average and unattractive men with beautiful women than the other way around?
Think about it.
Women are more attracted to certain qualities in men... and they're attracted to the way a man makes them FEEL than they are to looks alone.
If you know how to use your body language and communication correctly, you can make women feel the same kind of powerful sexual attraction to you that YOU feel when you see a hot, sexy young woman.
But it's not an accident. You have to LEARN how to do this.
And ANY guy can learn how...
MISTAKE #7: Thinking That It Takes Money And Looks
One of the most common mistakes that guys make is giving up before they've even gotten started... because they think that attractive women are only interested in men who have looks and money... or guys who are a certain height... or guys who are a certain age.
And sure, there are some women who are only interested in these things.
But MOST women are far more interested in a man's personality than his wallet or his looks.
There are personality traits that attract women like a magnet...
And if you learn what they are and how to use them, YOU can be one of these guys.
YOU DO NOT have to "settle" for a woman just because you aren't rich, tall, or handsome.
Let me say this again: If you know how to use your body language and communication correctly, you can make women feel the same kind of powerful sexual attraction to you that YOU feel when you see a hot, sexy young woman.
MISTAKE #8: Giving Away All Of Your Power To Women
Earlier I mentioned that it's a mistake to look to a woman for approval or permission.
Well, another similar tactic that a lot of guys use is GIVING AWAY THEIR POWER to women.
Said differently, guys try to get women to like them by doing whatever the woman wants.
Another bad idea...
Women are NEVER attracted to men that they can walk all over... Women aren't attracted to Wussies!
MISTAKE #9: Not Knowing EXACTLY What To Do In Each Type Of Situation With Women
Now I'm going to blow your mind...
A woman ALWAYS knows what you're thinking.
Women are approximately TEN TIMES better than men at reading body language. That's ten TIMES.
I know, it might be hard to believe. But for example, if you're out on a date with a woman, and you want to kiss her, she knows it.
And if you don't know exactly what to do and exactly HOW to kiss her, and you just sit there looking at her and getting nervous, she won't help!
And this goes for ALL aspects of women and dating...
Approaching a woman, getting her number, asking her out, kissing her, getting physical... everything.
If you don't know what to do in each situation, you will probably screw it up... and LOSE EVERYTHING.
And you KNOW it.
It is VITALLY important that you know EXACTLY how to go from one step to the next with a woman... from the first meeting, all the way to the bedroom.
MISTAKE #10: Not Getting HELP
This is the biggest mistake of all.
This is the mistake that keeps most men from EVER having the kind of success with women that they truly want.
I know, guys don't like to make themselves look weak or helpless. We don't like to ask for help.
Hey, I've been there myself.
Let me tell you a little about me and how I figured out how to be successful with women...
About five years ago I became fed up with the fact that I didn't know how to approach, meet, and get dates with women that I was attracted to.
It frustrated the hell out of me.
One night I was out with a friend, and I saw a woman I wanted to ask out, but I just couldn't get up the nerve to do it. I can still remember that night... right on the spot I made the decision to do whatever it took to learn how to be successful with women and dating.
Well, after a lot of hard work and trying all kinds of crazy things, I finally figured it all out.
I can now approach just about any woman and get her number almost instantly. I've dated models, I've dated actresses, and I've dated nice, normal, regular girls as well.
It has been a very rewarding experience. I no longer feel that sick, insecure feeling... like I don't know how to meet women... and I might wind up alone.
I know that anytime, anywhere, I can go out and meet attractive women.
I spend a short time hanging out in one of these forums shortly after Neil released his book. From my experience, there are quite a few delusional folks in those forums that view women as little more than a jigsaw puzzle or a combination lock, which is quite far from reality.
Many of the men in these communities reek of desperation, lack of validation and issues with self-acceptance. Some of these communities, however, have been able to support eachother in helping build eachother up, and develop that othewise non-existant confidence.
For those who have been involved, what are your thoughts? My personal experience has been that they are a very supportive group of people, usually very happy to help wing and improve your game, even at times give emotional support. However, out of the community I was with of about 30 core members two have been deranged in the head, in the sense that they were incredibly sexist and happily threw around jokes about abuse.
I'm an active member of the community, so of course I will be a bit biased but I think it is truly fantastic stuff. Also, they're gonna get a lot and I mean A LOT of hate from all those that don't understand. I think that's fine, it doesn't really affect me what internet randoms think, but I wish they took the time to investigate what exactly is going on before they condemn.
Articles on getting over laziness, being a man of action, and how to quit video games if one wants to.
Quote from the playing video games article:
Why should you listen to me?
Well, growing up I played video games as much as I possibly could. It got to the point that I would refuse to even do any chores around the house because that would take time away from playing video games. How absurd. I didn’t play video games casually either; I played them to an extreme competitive level, competed in tournaments and ran one of my teams like you would run a business.
My video game career (haha I’m not kidding, I viewed it as a career) began playing the original version of Starcraft when it first came out. From here I moved onto Counterstrike 1.6, which ended up being the game I would play the most. I competed competitively in Counterstrike 1.6, playing in both CAL and CEVO leagues. At one point I was an admin for the CEVO league. My CS 1.6 team would practice every day for between 4-8 hours (as a team). When we weren’t practicing as a team, I would practice on my own. I took that game so seriously I actually took lessons for it, from one of the best guys in the world. To improve my play I would study game film. I did whatever I could to get better. I played competitive CS 1.6 for many years.
After my CS 1.6 career ended, I started to play World of Warcraft. For the next year I played this game 16 hours a day, every day. If I didn’t have better things to do, I would login to my account and show everybody the total number of days played vs. the number of days I was active in the game. It would blow your mind. I’m not kidding: I played 16 hours a day every day for over a year. NUTS. I had the #1 ranked hunter on the server I played on, and after transferring to a new server (one of the more popular ones), I was recruited by a top 10 guild IN THE WORLD to be on their roster. This was ridiculous. Before joining this guild I decided to quit the game. This was right around the time that I decided to make a few last ditch efforts to save my relationship (which didn’t work). Shortly after I read “The Game”, which kick started my journey into what I do now. I started to play “DOTA” for a few months before I decided to take “pick-up” more seriously. I knew the absolute ONLY way this was going to be possible was if I stopped playing video games all together, so I decided that was exactly what I was going to do, and in October 2007 I quit them cold mother fuckin’ turkey.
The thing is that the community is all about bettering oneself. What is wrong with that?
Sounds like the guy who "quit video games" didn't really quit 'gaming' in the real sense. He just changed his preferred poison. In my opinion, the whole idea of picking up chicks is kind of silly, no more or less immature than playing sports or esports.
I was in the community for a little while, and managed to have a good amount of success. Then I read Vin DiCarlo's The Attraction Code, which is essentially a grandmaster pickup artist's rebuttal of everything pickup. I suggest giving it a read somehow if you can do it for free, it basically got me off my pickup 'hobby', and now I just focus on real life and my goals in it and with my hobbies like Starcraft. Since doing this, I've met a really awesome girl, and done better in school, Starcraft, and my other hobbies. Pickup is just another thing to waste time doing and distracting yourself from what really matters to you in life
I read the book the game, it's very entertaining and well done. As for the community I've poked around and I think its overall a good thing, but like all good things there's a few bad people sprinkled in it. Anything that is built towards bettering one's self shouldn't be viewed negatively.
The PUA community, in my opinion, is a place where socially inept men go to lick their wounds and obtain false hope from unscrupulous people who take advantage of their situation to make an easy dollar.
With regards to women, you either have it or you dont. It is a basic instinct. You can learn new tools to use in your skill set, but in the end nothing will work if you do not have what it takes to overcome your own fears and limitations and use those tools in an effective manner.
How to get people to give you money (in no particular order): 1. Convince them you speak directly to god 2. Convince them you can help them get rich 3. Convince them you can help them get laid
Also, whoever wrote that video game article sounds like a great person. Clearly, you should be taking notes and modifying your lifestyle to be more like him... He claims to have spent twelve hours a day playing cs for many years and wasn't good at it, so his big decision was to give up and switch to WoW. Now he's on to avoiding reality with the PUA community.
On June 03 2011 00:19 SirKibbleX wrote: Sounds like the guy who "quit video games" didn't really quit 'gaming' in the real sense. He just changed his preferred poison. In my opinion, the whole idea of picking up chicks is kind of silly, no more or less immature than playing sports or esports.
I was in the community for a little while, and managed to have a good amount of success. Then I read Vin DiCarlo's The Attraction Code, which is essentially a grandmaster pickup artist's rebuttal of everything pickup. I suggest giving it a read somehow if you can do it for free, it basically got me off my pickup 'hobby', and now I just focus on real life and my goals in it and with my hobbies like Starcraft. Since doing this, I've met a really awesome girl, and done better in school, Starcraft, and my other hobbies. Pickup is just another thing to waste time doing and distracting yourself from what really matters to you in life
Not quite sure what the difference is between The Attraction Code and say The Mystery Method. They appear to both have similar concepts (social status, evolutionary psychology, etc).
Regardless of how you feel, if you take a step back are you able to see the negative vibe that you bring when discussing this topic?
Likewise with the comments after... I mean, there may be truth to what you are saying, that the PUA community is just a waste of time and filled with delinquents etc, however the tone in which you are attacking it almost makes it seem like it was something you tried but failed at, so now you're trying to make others see it your way too. I'm not saying that you did fail, but that is the perception you are putting forward with your attitudes.
This is just my opinion of course. I've personally had good experiences with the community and got a lot out of it. A lot of the older members tend to be very supportive to newbies because they've been where they've been so understand that not everything is easy to 'pick-up' when you're just starting out.
I listened to the Deangelo stuff for a while in my late teens. I got some success, but most of it came when I started hitting the gym and was irregardless of having the DYD stuff. As far as insights go - there were quite a few. Especially the interviews series. But when it comes to the rest of your life you need to consult someone else. Or your own experience
People that do Mystery Method (MM) are the scariest. Not only are women objects that respond to stimuli, but so are the the guys picking them up! If you spend 7hrs reading a script basically, you'll get laid. Though it maybe true - no connection has been made and the sex is superficial at best. These guys are afraid of being themselves - the core issue at hand.
On June 03 2011 00:19 SirKibbleX wrote: Sounds like the guy who "quit video games" didn't really quit 'gaming' in the real sense. He just changed his preferred poison. In my opinion, the whole idea of picking up chicks is kind of silly, no more or less immature than playing sports or esports.
I was in the community for a little while, and managed to have a good amount of success. Then I read Vin DiCarlo's The Attraction Code, which is essentially a grandmaster pickup artist's rebuttal of everything pickup. I suggest giving it a read somehow if you can do it for free, it basically got me off my pickup 'hobby', and now I just focus on real life and my goals in it and with my hobbies like Starcraft. Since doing this, I've met a really awesome girl, and done better in school, Starcraft, and my other hobbies. Pickup is just another thing to waste time doing and distracting yourself from what really matters to you in life
Not quite sure what the difference is between The Attraction Code and say The Mystery Method. They appear to both have similar concepts (social status, evolutionary psychology, etc).
Regardless of how you feel, if you take a step back are you able to see the negative vibe that you bring when discussing this topic?
He brings a negative vibe because it was a negative experience for him. You wanted a discussion of his experience right?
On June 03 2011 00:19 SirKibbleX wrote: Sounds like the guy who "quit video games" didn't really quit 'gaming' in the real sense. He just changed his preferred poison. In my opinion, the whole idea of picking up chicks is kind of silly, no more or less immature than playing sports or esports.
I was in the community for a little while, and managed to have a good amount of success. Then I read Vin DiCarlo's The Attraction Code, which is essentially a grandmaster pickup artist's rebuttal of everything pickup. I suggest giving it a read somehow if you can do it for free, it basically got me off my pickup 'hobby', and now I just focus on real life and my goals in it and with my hobbies like Starcraft. Since doing this, I've met a really awesome girl, and done better in school, Starcraft, and my other hobbies. Pickup is just another thing to waste time doing and distracting yourself from what really matters to you in life
Not quite sure what the difference is between The Attraction Code and say The Mystery Method. They appear to both have similar concepts (social status, evolutionary psychology, etc).
Regardless of how you feel, if you take a step back are you able to see the negative vibe that you bring when discussing this topic?
He brings a negative vibe because it was a negative experience for him. You wanted a discussion of his experience right?
Yeah actually you're right, I probably am deviating from my original intention by letting my own biases come into play. I'm off to sleep now so will check this thread again in the morning. Thanks for contributing.
On June 03 2011 00:31 Ganjamaster wrote: The PUA community, in my opinion, is a place where socially inept men go to lick their wounds and obtain false hope from unscrupulous people who take advantage of their situation to make an easy dollar.
With regards to women, you either have it or you dont. It is a basic instinct. You can learn new tools to use in your skill set, but in the end nothing will work if you do not have what it takes to overcome your own fears and limitations and use those tools in an effective manner.
You entire understanding of the PUA community is completely wrong. In most part, it's to help the nerds/geeks out there with no real social skills in attracting the opposite sex. So they do need this skill set learning to transform their way of thinking.
On June 03 2011 00:31 Ganjamaster wrote: The PUA community, in my opinion, is a place where socially inept men go to lick their wounds and obtain false hope from unscrupulous people who take advantage of their situation to make an easy dollar.
With regards to women, you either have it or you dont. It is a basic instinct. You can learn new tools to use in your skill set, but in the end nothing will work if you do not have what it takes to overcome your own fears and limitations and use those tools in an effective manner.
Well put. When i think PUA, I don't see in my head some alpha baller who always has girls running after him.... I think of some nerd who never got laid in high school, and finally got so frustrated that he decided to 'overcome' his lack of sociability by engaging in sociopathic and often entirely ineffective pseudo-real-life RPG called picking up girls lol. gg
When I was 15, I accidentally stumbled onto this scene while browsing the internet. I had a few realisations about life and people then( I was a pretty clueless kid), but didnt really follow the different "styles" or "methods" or whatever you wanna call them. Most of it is overpriced marketing bullshit I think, but I read a blog and bought a book by a guy who quit his job to travel and practice his game. That was pretty interesting.
Still, I think they got a lot of stuff about women right. If it helps some people get laid and find happiness, more power to them I guess.
PUA at its core works and it works very well. Its essentially a study of psychology (not just female psychology, but also male psychology). The problem with the PUA community is that a lot of people misuse it.
Whether you're really good or really terrible with women, you should pick this up and learn the psychology. Why? Because if you understand the underlining messages of it, you can use it to make women (whether friends or girlfriends) happier. By happier, I mean really making them happier.
People can use it for whatever. You want a same night lay? The thing can absolutely work and it does work.
Same night lay' not your cup of tea? Then use the psychological undertones to bring a more romantic atmosphere to the relationship. Understand that you can be the "nice guy", but only if you do it in the RIGHT WAY. Understand what it means to alpha male without being that arrogant fake alpha-male (Hint: a good part is always to control your emotions and understand them).
A lot of PUA things seem manipulative and sometimes downright stupid. At its core though, read and understand between the lines of it.
On June 03 2011 00:31 Ganjamaster wrote: With regards to women, you either have it or you dont. It is a basic instinct. You can learn new tools to use in your skill set, but in the end nothing will work if you do not have what it takes to overcome your own fears and limitations and use those tools in an effective manner.
either you have it or you dont? what does that mean? and you talk about "overcoming fear and limitations" well I was under the impression the "PUA" community revolves around overcoming your social phobias? I havent been up to date for 4 years or so, but I thought the "PUA" community evolved from those gimmicky tricks and openers to natural game built on core confidence
very few men are truly good with women and cold approaching unless they've gone through >100 rejections. I thought everybody knew that. if you aren't confident with women then you havent gone out and tried hard enough.
from what i can tell, most men who are angry at the community either 1) tried what they thought was a quick easy fix and failed to see results (didnt try hard enough) or 2) are white knights who believe women should be treated with chivalry and respect. nothing wrong with that except you completely misunderstood the goal which is to help men overcome their social phobias
On June 03 2011 00:31 Ganjamaster wrote: The PUA community, in my opinion, is a place where socially inept men go to lick their wounds and obtain false hope from unscrupulous people who take advantage of their situation to make an easy dollar.
With regards to women, you either have it or you dont. It is a basic instinct. You can learn new tools to use in your skill set, but in the end nothing will work if you do not have what it takes to overcome your own fears and limitations and use those tools in an effective manner.
This just isn't so.
I never let myself in with any of this PUA stuff but i remember that in my teenage years i had times where i literally had trouble talking to girls as in my throat slowly clamping up.
It didn't stay (thank god for that), but it really isn't a "have or have not" scenario. Things change, your outlook changes and i think stuff like this could work if only for giving people the (perhaps fake) idea that they have a cheat code to prevent them from failing.
Confidence is pretty much 90% of it and for some people this kind of stuff helps them with it.
I don't really see the harm in it. If it works for you then it works, no harm no foul. It's not like they are raping women, if those women go with them it's of their own accord.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/lBJrw.jpg)
