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On June 05 2011 23:08 Pyo wrote: And who exactly is the most scummy player? Freeloader? If it freeloader really is a scum and people are all jumping on him, wouldn't other scum try to draw attention away from themselves by sacrificing him? In other words by encouraging others to go for him, or at least promoting mob mentality, isn't that a huge red flag as being scum? Maybe I should change my vote back after all... Are people actually vindictive in mafia? Wouldn't that draw too much attention to themselves? Either way, my apologies, don't kill me off too quick  Also, what counts as a "good post"? Maybe point out an example? From what I've seen looking through old mafias is that "good posts" that are too on target, especially early on end up getting you killed. Hi all. I just read trough all of the post and i must say there has been alot of accusations already. especially with Kurumi barging in and calling almost everyone that has posted a noobtown or a rat. I made a list of what happened the past time so i may as well post it. It may not be complete in the sence of what everyone has said but i think it helps tracing who accused who + Show Spoiler + freeloader625 asked a question about mafia and said he was new aprudds says scum slip(accuses freeloader) Jimbooo Does not want to make hasty conclusions treadmill agrees with aprudds(accuses freeloader) cherubael is a bit indifferent at first but then also accuses freeloader 35spike1 joins the bandwagon without much explenation gtrsrs posts he will be back tomorrow Aril defends freeloader625 Lafali also hops the wagon cherubael accuses aril DeMorcerf accuses freeloader too heist not suspicous of people defending freeloader omgCRAZY: Appruds quick to acccuse freeloader. Cherubael and jimboo thorw out votes Aril: We should not gang up on people omgCRAZY states he's new to the game iGrok defends freeloader. Says voting early suspicious. suggest checking freeloader monsterDrakar doesnt support Appruds accusation TheKK defends freeloader625.states it was a legimate question TheAwesomeAll also defends freeloader625. TheAwesomeAll sees the other 2 post freeloader did make Sprungjeezy also suspects freeloader Kurumi thinks freeloader is town kurumi votes treadmill kurumi accuses lafali 2 times Igrok tries to temper kurumi just as Sprungjeezy rookie44 makes a post with some questions Benjef votes without posting Pyo posts the first analysis Benjef explains why he voted Pyo says he's a noob Ok, Now Kurumi. Bandwagoning is not seen as a mafia only trait. Town joins bandwagons just as easily. For now Freeloader625 would still be my main target. It would give us at this moment the most information about who will be scum and who not. If he would be town it gives us the info that the people who were defending him are likely town. Why would they defend him if they are mafia? Furthermore it would lay suspicion on the people who accused him in the first place. The chance that they are mafia in that case would be alot bigger. If he turns out scum we can pat ourselfs on the back and continue the game with somewhat of a lead. As a last thing to point out. If you are town don't be afraid to post a good analysis that is pointing out weak scum play. It will maybe get you killed but in the end it will help you win. And we all play to win rigt  | ||
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On June 06 2011 00:07 Kurumi wrote: My dumbness meter went over 9000. Before saying "HURR DURR YOU DID NOTHING" read my posts. I brought evidence why I think they're scum. On June 05 2011 18:07 Kurumi wrote: What? Bad lynches are good lynches? Are You a stupid Rat or You're a Noobtown? Lynch is the most IMPORTANT tool town gets. ##vote Treadmill He was actually saying that some evidence for a lynch was better as a random lynch with no suspicion. now i would like to see your compelling evidence and accusations because frankly i have only seen you throwing out accusations and calling people noobtown. | ||
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On June 06 2011 00:30 Kurumi wrote: EDWOP: I meant,let him play by himself,he does not need Your help. The evidence is simple: They support bad lynches,they say that we can waste lynches,they want Town to make quick decision which they didn't think about enough While it is true that they were quick to vote and everyone joined the bandwagon the accusations were very much grounded. The question itself was not very scummy indeed. If i were a scum i would pm it to the host instead of posting it in the thread. + Show Spoiler + On June 05 2011 12:44 freeloader625 wrote: Omg I'm so excited for this. I read all the rules twice and just want to ask to anyone willing to answer (before the game starts) since these were not answered in the thread rules: 1) Since PMs are not allowed, how would mafia communicate with each other? 2) Once someone dies whether it be by votes or mafia hit, will their roles be revealed? Thanks and GL everyone! (I've only played SC2 Mafia before and got hooked) + Show Spoiler + On June 05 2011 14:02 freeloader625 wrote: Oh but a townie does have reasons to ask such a question. Don't take my SC2 Mafia as lack of experience, I was able to deduce roles within the 50seconds given. :D Now he is stating that a townie does have reasons to ask such a question what is indeed true. The interesting part of this post is at the second line. He is now telling us "dont mind me, i'm new to the game" and diverting attention off him. Telling you are new and therefore if are doing things out of the ordinary its just your inexperience is at the best not very good town play. + Show Spoiler + On June 05 2011 14:06 freeloader625 wrote: All I can say is, all too often the first one to speak is "put on trial." Sleep on it. Not a very informative or interesting post besides the fact that i can't figure out in which way he was the first to speak These posts and as i stated before the amount of info we can get of this lynch is why he is my main target right now. Do mind that it very well can be that it can be that no mafia has even posted yet so this is more a suspicion of me than a well thought out accusation | ||
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On June 06 2011 04:07 GGQ wrote: Bolded part is very misguided play. Lynching for information, especially on day 1, is very weak. Taking into account the context, lynching freeloader for information is even weaker. The chance that he's mafia is very low, and if he flips green we have no usable information. The underlined question is very very easy to answer. Mafia always defend townies that they think will get mislynched. Why wouldnt they? It gives them free town cred. All we would get by lynching freeloader for information is a likely dead green and a pile of WIFOM. Well to me a small suspicion to lynch is always better than no suspicion. I'm not saying he is 100% mafia but at the moment i don't see any better alternatives. Do mind that we are also playing with new players so i don't think what you are suggesting is very probable. | ||
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On June 06 2011 08:14 blackone wrote: Well, posting cute little haikus and being funny can lead to the suspicion that you have some kind of interest in being considered funny and friendly. Also, if you don't agree to that, why will you stop doing that now? It's not like gtrsrs can impose rules on how you have to post. Well now we know that the mafia has an own thread or something like that. i think we can surely say iGrock was just doing it to stand out/fun/boredom. | ||
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First off: Kurumi is probably town if he also spammed this much in a previous game where he was scum. I don't know his style very good but he is drawing way too much attention to be a comfortable mafia. This game setup along with the vast amount of new players will probably push mafia in more of a lurker state. When i played my first game(mini mafia) the mafia was also lurking alot and just posting enough to draw suspicion away. For a general strategy i would suggest not pressuring lurkers but looking out for fluff posts(i'm currently updating my list of events) that add nothing to discussion or just tag along with the rest. Furthermore i think lynching iGrok would be very bad for town at the moment. He is making sound analysis of players and at least put some efforts in his posts. I'm not saying he is not mafia but give it some time. He should be killed in a few days if he keeps up this posting standard(mafia likes to kill good town players). I would have suggested to dt check him but thinking about it its not unlikely for him to be the godfather who checks out green. | ||
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On June 07 2011 02:31 iGrok wrote: I don't quite understand this. So Kurumi is probably town because he's acting the same way he did when he was mafia before? Euh, i meant town. Jackal stated that when he was town he's just as hard to analyze. Iirc he was not scum the other games Jackal played with him. + Show Spoiler + On June 07 2011 00:19 Jackal58 wrote: Kurumi was town in XXXIX. Lynched day one for posting nonsensically for the first half of the day. He has improved significantly from that game believe it or not. He is also still playing in PTP mafia and is a self proclaimed SK. | ||
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On June 07 2011 02:53 iGrok wrote: Ok, yeah that makes a lot more sense. Yeah, I'm starting to see how Kurumi could be a townie, but I could also see him as a scum who felt the pressure and is trying to change his tune. I still don't thing he should be lynched today. I'm trying to think of who should be, but I really don't know :/ Well there ALOT of people who only posted once so we could decide to pressure lurkers. The thing is that its usually better to lynch people with a reason Also i won't continue with the list. I tried to make a condensed version of the thread but with so many people throwing accusations around its just not feasible anymore. i hope we can say some more on day 2 | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On June 06 2011 04:22 rookie44 wrote: Hey guys, This is all getting a bit out of hand, we seem to already be getting in each others faces over perceived (and real) sleights. I have only played mafia on battle.net, and this is going to be quite a different game to that. What i believe is the crucial difference is that we have large amounts of time for discussion. This also gives us the time to create a solid plan for using whatever roles we have effectively (it would seem that way). Maybe some of the more experienced players could expand on what investigative stratagies they have used; their pitfalls, and how we may evade those pitfalls. Perhaps an added benifit will be that it will be very tricky for a mafia to come up with a generalized stratagy that is grounded in reason, so maybe there will be some suspiciously quiet people. (I assume it will be difficult for a generalized stratagy becasue i can only see the mafia being able to take advantage of a specific stratagy by getting their peolpe in the right places). So i assume you all read jackal's analysis about this post. While you could explain it the way jackal did it could also just be genuinely be asking for help. 1st part: Stating he is new. While this is a bit scummy i have seen 3-4? players in the thread stating exactly the same 2nd part: Stating that we should have a plan. Having some sort of strategy is always nice if its not the mafia coming up with it. 3rd part: I don't even know what he is meaning by this. What pitfalls? I don't believe he's so retarded to ask for scum help while the help for scum and town is linked in the 3rd post. and the last: Spam? + Show Spoiler + On June 05 2011 19:32 rookie44 wrote: Guys this is already so exciting! glhf! Would it be a legitimate stratagy if we lynched treadmill with the thought that he and some other mafia got overzealous with voting for freeloader? It seems like if someone got a role in the mafia then they would be more anxious to start the game, and would be much more active in the very beginning. This is a mafia game for less experienced players so maybe that means there will be some metagame mistakes? So here we have six lines of spam and no real conclusions. A somewhat indifferent question and alot of assumptions. Also i'm happy for him chill doesn't read this forum + Show Spoiler + On June 06 2011 19:47 rookie44 wrote: iGrok gives a detailed analysis of a player (the most detailed post so far) and suddenly has two players getting into his face, neither of which engage with the analysis or provide their own. So I am seeing this a more defensive position from them. If we agree that kurumi is suspicious then they are defending him. Perhaps after the analysis was shown then kunami reached out to his mafia buddies and asked them to help. (note kunami has not defended himself - which is odd for such a previously active player (real world job maybe)) Its kinda silly but if we had to vote now gtrsrs would get my vote, for a little of the reasons above and also becasue in his posts he always talks about, x misleading town, and never x is misleading us. If he is town then he is continually refering to himself in the third person, which is quite an unnatural thing to do. Pyo is funny becasue he initially voted for kurumi and then switched his vote to aprudds. That could be analysed either as a town move or a mafia move, and just considering the switched vote is tricky. More spam the first lines, But now he names someone to lynch. He doesn't give an elaborate explanation why though. last line doesn't really add anything. He is saying hey guys something happened but we can't draw conclusion Conclusion: He's a very spammy player with no real conclusions and arguments. It is very clear that he is new to the game but i don't really buy he's that much scummier than the other new players here. It was true that he was asking for information but proposing that we should have a strategy doesn't really ring a scum bell for me. | ||
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On June 07 2011 07:29 Pyo wrote: Isn't this a scummy post? Why should any townie care about what others think of themselves? I initially voted for him because I thought he was being a self important douche in a newbie mafia game and a vote for someone I didn't like was just as arbitrary as voting for anyone else. But now I'm starting to think he might actually be scum. He's "experienced," so he should know how to hide as a town, right? And I feel like he is being overly careful to make sure he comes off as being town (analysis posts etc). Additionally, he got quite defensive when he was randomly accused by gtrsrs and even more so when I arbitrarily jumped in. As for Kurumi, my initial impression still stands. He is a chaotic poster. This on paper is a very good strategy if you want to avoid being mafia killed as having a lot of suspicion on you is good for mafia. And with roleblocker/GF powers he's generally a good person to keep around for mafia. Last game he did the same thing and was actually a townie, however he got lynched day 1 for posting like he has been. I think he's probably a townie, but quite frankly, a useless one. I'm not going to advocate voting for him, but if he goes I don't think he'll be missed Senj appears to be lurking. 4 posts so far, so he's quite easy to analyze really. first post defending freeloaderfirst post he defends freeloader second post defending igrok shifting blame to people accusing freeloader bandwagoning against rookie (actually voting this time) If either freeloader or rookie get lynched/killed I think we will know whether senj is scum or not. I feel the same about iGrok but i don't think that very matters right now. We need more time to figure that out and if he is town it would be very bad to lose him right the first day. If Kurumi is town the way he is playing is really not the best for a town. We want detailed analysis of maybe one player at a time. What we don't want is someone accusing everyone in the game just for the hell of it. But his posting history speaks for itself and thus his posting now is nothing out of the ordinary. I played a few games before with senj but he was modkilled for inactivity. Jeah, the same thing he's doing now | ||
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On June 07 2011 08:23 Impervious wrote: Alright, I'm back, and I've read the last ~10 pages to try to get myself up to date. I've probably missed something, but I think I have a good idea on what's going on so far. I'll be keeping an eye on you. Scum. Btw - GREEN AND YELLOW!!!!! Ok, now, from what I've seen, I think Jackal's plan is best. I've seen a bunch of "newbie" posts, but that one seriously hinted at finding blues, as well as finding flaws in previously used investigative strategies. While it may be a "newbie" type post, it also answers a question I ask myself whenever I'm looking at someone - Are they acting in the best interest of the town? My gut feeling is "no", even though he has so few posts. And, rather than pick on lurkers for the sake of picking on lurkers (since they'll likely be modkilled at some point), I think our best move at the moment is to lynch rookie44. Ok, i guess you're right. His posts didn't really contribute and now with the knowledge of that there is a thread for mafia alone freeloader isn't really a viable option too. So with that my vote will also be on Rookie for the sake of voting. 4 hours remaining but i'm going to bed so my vote is final. Goodnight | ||
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sorry rook  | ||
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Ok, i couln't get much info out of the second day. Much speculation has been done so its hard to keep track(i don't have a fancy whiteboard at home) Anywhays i also couldn't find a summarry of lafali's direct connections so i grabbed notepad again + Show Spoiler + lafali:Good Catch by Appruds Reaction on omgCRAZY: freeloader625 subsequent posts are fishy Kurumi accuses him of scum And again accuses him iGrok says he's newbie(town) called treadmill fishy Munk-E analyzing lafali(lafali is suspicious) CjrNinja calls lafali scum treadmill not sure lafali scum/town iGrok soft-defending lafali Kurumi again accusing lafali Xedat pointed out that again Trancestorm saying he can't get a clear read, jimboo better target munk-E again suspicious of him Ok, so now we have that we can make a chain of events from the point of lafali. 1. Freeloader was accused(lafali hops the bandwagon) 2. Kurumi is accusing lafali pretty hard(3 times or more) 3. When people are picking up on lafali jackall saves the day(intentionally or not) So basing off this i would believe very strongly Kurumi is town. There was no real reason for him to attack lafali this hard on day one. The plan could have easily backfired. Also i'm not sure about iGrock now but i can't get one thing out of my head. Remember the whiteboard iGrok posted? why the fuck would you have such a thing if you are mafia? I just can't believe he just painted arrows that had to be right just to give us an insurance he was town(otherwise hats off to you iGrok). Furthermore the list pleads for Xedat for him emphasizing kurumi thought lafali was scum. And as last this puts a bit of suspicion on Trancestorm for diverting to jimboo. you may conclude some other things from the list but it gets more and more speculation on the way(was it all setup or not). Now last but not least my vote goes to jackal. I believe iGrok or jackal have to be scum. There has to be at least one experienced player in the mafia camp in my opinion. I have my doubts about iGrok but i feel jackal has more things against him(saving lafali) so my vote will go with him. You make your own choice, it would be very bad if we bandwagoned in a short time again. | ||
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Voted for freeloader and unvote Did not vote on Rookie44(gtrsrs) Voted for amazingxkcd His reasoning for the votes is also a bit off. A few quotes now and then wouldn't hurt. Oh and btw gtrsrs. why do you start a post with "man treadmill your 100% scum scum scum scum fucking scum. And then: oh well don't mind that we'll just lynch Vain and grush57. And what the fuck. Derailing the thread with telling we probably have 7 scum? Really? That's not town play in my book. I would have labeled that as scum play if i weren't convinced you were town. i will post now before kurumi goes flying mad with his lurker obsession. We have still 27 people in the game where a lot of people don't post that well thought out post | ||
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On June 13 2011 05:46 Kurumi wrote: ##Vote Vain Thanks. Really? Why do you even take the effort to write out a whole ruleboard how people should act and now you post like this? Look guys i write many rules for you i'm very pro town. But i'm so pro town i shouldn't be following this shit rules fuck this man. Also stop the voting in thread and just cluttering the whole thread with 50 answers and 5 questions. The last few pages have been nothing but fluff. | ||
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On June 13 2011 05:54 Kurumi wrote: I am confirmed town,so why You even bother attacking me? Because you have been cluttering the thread with shit like this. Do you know how hard it is to find back posts when its kurumi all over the place? I'm sure your town but that's not a reason to post 1337 times to just get your post count up. | ||
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On June 13 2011 06:02 Kurumi wrote: Did You notice I am just taunting You? Your case against grush57 is not good at all. Step it up or You'll share his fate. Than please, i beg you say that instead of posting useless one-liners. Please don't reply to this unless you have found some incriminating evidence or wrote up a good well thought out post why you should. Btw, yeah my case against grush is really weak. There is nothing more to say. I could fluff up my post with nice quotes and that lovely red/green/bold you use in your posts. What i sayd are the facts. Grush is a player who makes 2 liner posts, bandwagoned on freeloader,not on rookie but voted on amazingxkcd. You could also have like read his post where he stated the same thing. | ||
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On June 13 2011 06:31 TheAwesomeAll wrote: This post is scum 101, Let me summarize it. im gonna vote for grush He plays a certain way, but that doesnt mean shit he votes a certain way, (insert conclusion?) Oh and btw gtrsr why do you suspect me, plz suspect treadmill instead or else ur scum Where did you conclude grush57 was mafia? Normally i would agree he is scum, just for posting bad, but grookie and jimbooo show that since this is a newbie game, not everyone will post as constructive. Also the day 1 posts of grtrs, whining about the haikus, was just asking for votes( in fact he literally asked for votes). Please explain again why you think grush is scum. That being said, you surely deserve your place on my FOS list : Treadmill Grush Vain i'm still not sure about him. i'm now reading trough his post history if i can find something more conclusive. The not voting on rookie does speak for him. Igrok was distancing himself from the rest of the mafia i'm not sure of more mafia have done that or just all voted on rookie. Also | ||
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On June 07 2011 05:08 grush57 wrote: I'm pretty sure gtsrs is scum. He is keep accusing people with little info and keep saying he will risk his life, even though he would be scrambling to save himself if he was up to be lynched. Therefore, I vote gtsrs. Well this was one of the largest posts i could find. I wouldn't type this as a scummy post though. He is trying to give some reason why he voted while it isn't a very good one he was not bandwagoning this time. Not very interesting overall + Show Spoiler + On June 09 2011 00:58 grush57 wrote: Alright, I'm going to say that amazingxcd is scum, for he is not responding to any accusations and lynched a medic and had no clear evidence that rookie was scum. Derp, no one had clear evidence rookie was scum. It was pretty much blue or scum. i will count this as bandwagoning On June 09 2011 06:55 grush57 wrote: So, he is the most passive, which could also mean he is a blue and then later in another post, you try to get other people to bandwagon with You. Not saying whether iGrok is mafia or town/blue, but u do have good analysis of those players. Inb4 grush57 is trying to defend iGrok, he is scum! Grush57 is calling igrok scum. This was irr before he was in alot of danger so this pleads for him I think you have his defence and then his following post fresh in your memory so no quote for that. In my opinion this is another not so experienced player that is tunneled upon. Why the fuck is no one defending him? oh wait. Maybe because he's another newbie player where is just tunneled upon. Kurumi. could you as confirmed town make a list of who is also confirmed town and who is town in your opinion? we really need to get some sort of a reliable overview. Lastly i want to react on this post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=1105&topic_id=227500 Jeah paint them nice 'n green boy. After that you can throw that list away. Igrok isn't a stupid player and i wouldn't be surprised if there are a few/al off the reds in there. He obviously played this game a few more times and probably instructed the mafia well. | ||
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