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[G] PvZ - FE 1 Gate & Fast Warp Gate Research

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Capoch
Profile Joined April 2010
Argentina179 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-24 16:39:21
April 20 2011 01:41 GMT
#1
Hi guys,

I’ve been recently testing out a new strategy in the PvZ matchup. I’ll write down the build order and some pointers of it in a bit, but 1st let me start with a quick introduction of myself. My name is Patricio "Capoch" del Olmo, from Argentina and I’ve been playing RTS games competitively for many years. I've participated in BlizzCon 2010, Brazil Game Show 2010, and many nice online tourneys of SC2 over the past months (such as GGI tourney, FXO Invitationals, etc). You can check my RTS achievements (as well as other stuff) in my facebook page: www.facebook.com/capoch.ar

Now onto the build:
It's been having great success in the past few days against many good zergs I’m currently Top 25 in NA GrandMaster league. This build was also spotted by Day9 during his daily show on Monday. Build order:

9 pylon
12 gate
14 gas
16 pylon
17 cybernetics
18 Nexus

Now you would probably think what the fuck??? Well, the key here is that you only get 50 gas for the Warp Gate Research and only use 2 initial chronoboosts on the Nexus. The secret of the build is only mining gas with 2 probes, and once you get the 50 gas, you’ll pull them to mine minerals. After building the nexus on your natural, you’ll want to get a fast zealot to block the ramp or deal with any early ling aggression.

What you need to know for sure is that your opponent is also doing some kind of FE; this build is really vulnerable to any type of all in from the zerg player, so you will want to scout his base good before doing it. If you don’t see your opponent with any type of intend of expanding, then I'd suggest doing the typical 3 gate FE, or whatever you like to do. If you can, try to block a bit the zerg's early expansion yourself, probe dancing around his natural or blocking it with a pylon (if you notice that he sends a drone to his natural of course).

So, let’s go back to the point in which you saw your opponent taking his natural and you started building your nexus. Now what? Well, that’s easy, start doing the warp gate research and chronoboost it! I’d also suggest to either chronoboost your nexus or your 1st zealot and following a stalker if you spot some early harassment from the zerg with your probe scout. Of course, while you do this, you must keep doing probes in your main, and also take the 2nd gas as fast as possible to start doing some early sentries that will help a ton on blocking early rushes.

The zerg player will probably scout your early nexus and no forge and will think, “hey, this looks easy, I’ll make lots of units and take down that fast nexus”. Well, the key here is to do some sort of wallin with pylon-nexus-2 additional gateways making some kind of choke that you can block easily with 2-3 units. After you get 3 units out (ideally would be 1 zealot, 1 stalker and 1 sentry) you should have 2gates with warp upgrade done, and almost a 3rd gate up. This will stop most aggressions (except 1 base all in of course).

At this point, you can follow this build with whatever you prefer most. If you see some aggression from the zerg, I’d suggest throwing down 2 more gateways to mass more units or even do 2 more gates and go aggressive yourself! You will also want to take the natural gases early on too (after having the 3 1st gates up).

Pros and cons of the build:
Strong against: -Expanding zerg (careful here, the zerg might do some type of FE but you’re not sure if he’s gonna use the extra larva to make units and attack you or just build his eco up; scouting is essential and also some common sense works too!).
Weak against: -1 base zerg all in.
-zerg player spawning in close positions (this build is tough to do in close spots, I don’t recommend it).

So as I said, I’ve come up with this build a couple of days ago, and I’m testing it a lot, not only transitioning into 5gate push but also into stargate/robotics and grabbing another expo early.

Q&A

+ Show Spoiler +
-Why not just 15/17 nexus if your opponent is FEing?

The timing is just perfect with 18 nexus, that's why.
Just when you place the nexus with the 18th, your cybernetics will be done at the same time and you can begin the warp gate research upgrade.

-How does this build fare against fast muta's or hard droning by the zerg?

This build works just perfect vs fast muta's and hard droning zergs. The reason is because after you got your 3 gates up, you can research hallucination and scout a bit to see what's going on. After scouting with your fake phoenixes, you can just adapt accordingly, so if you see mutas, you can go for a 5gate early blink push. Do a fake phoenix and blink into his main and just win the game.

-When to build additional production structures if zerg expands. Do you cut probes shortly, like in the classic one gate FE vs terran?

Basically after putting down your nexus, you want to start your warp gate research and do a zealot. After that, start the probe production again, and move back 3 probes to the gas. You also want to start walling your natural in with a pylon-gateway-nexus-gateway-pylon or whatever necessary, leaving a small choke that will be blocked by 1 or 2 zealots. The chronoboost here depends on how the opponent reacts when he spots the nexus at your natural. If you want to be really safe, then chronoboost your gate and the warp gate research; if you feel comfortable, then chronoboost your nexus and warp gate research, or mix around a bit.

-What to do vs TWO-base all-ins, namely mass roach accompanied by a few lings. Maybe you need to implement an earlier forge on some maps to be safe?

This build is really good against pushes because you’ll be getting the warp gate upgrade fairly soon, and you’ll be pumping units from 3 gates early. It’s not good against pushes in close spawns, that’s why I don’t recommend doing it in that situation, but if the opponent is in other locations, then you can stop some pushes (shown in the replays I’ve posted). An early forge or even a semi early hallucination just to get some important scouting intel and reacting accordingly to what the opponent is doing might be good. The forge is nice for the +1 and just to be safe of burrowed roaches. The beauty of the build lies in taking a nexus so fast without a forge; by doing this, most opponents will desperately react by trying to take the nexus down as fast as possible with whatever small army they have, and you’ll defend it with not much trouble (as shown in the replays).
If the opponent is more passive, you’ll have a better economy than with the 3gate FE. Of course, you will only know this by having good scouting information, and that’s why you’ll always need a probe moving around the map trying to spot some sort of early push.

-What happens if the zerg dennies further scouting when his first lings pop out and he cancels his expantion and goes for an all-in?

Well, that's one of the big issues of the build. If he cancels his expo and goes all in against yours, it'll be a tough one to hold. That won't happen often though, it would be just like going 3gate expo, and then adding 2 gates and cancelling your expo and going all in into his, these type of tricks are hard to hold by the defensive player. You just gotta try to scout as much as you can and gather whatever intel helps to react fast to what the opponent might throw at you.

-What do you do against a greedy zerg? (Like a 6 minute-ish third)

A greedy zerg will get punished bad if he takes a 3rd. Basically, you can push to the zerg's 3rd with 5-6 gates and rape him badly (with good ff's of course).


More info

+ Show Spoiler +
This build is safe if the zerg player is expanding and not on close spawns (I've specified the pros and cons of it in the main thread, the good thing about this build too is that if the spawns don't favour you for it, you can opt for the 3gate FE). It even works out so good, that it can lure the zerg into a trap thinking that you're crazy of doing FE without forge, so he'll be aggressive, and that's really when the build shines, you'll stop early aggression if you block your natural and micro correctly.

The other good thing about it is having an expo up and the warp gate research fast! you can be really aggressive early on with 5 gates.
You only pull probes out of gas to build the nexus, after that, you pull them right back to the gas.

The thing with this build, is that is really situational. In safe maps, you can just opt for the FE Forge opening. In close spawn maps, you can opt for the 3gate FE or 5gate fake expansion, whatever you like. This build shines in semi open maps (such as Shattered Temple, Metalopolis) in far or opposite locations.

The main difference with the 3gate FE transition into a 5gate push, is that you're eco will be much stronger than it, and by pushing with this build, it wouldn't be much as an all in like it's in the 3gate FE transition into 5gate. As I said, the opponent seeing an early FE with no forge, might want to push himself, and this is where the build works out perfectly! By the time he hits you, you'll have a small choke blocked by 3 of your units (at least) and 2-3 gates up with warp gate research done. If he's pushing you, you gotta keep pumping units and chronoboosting your gateways while doing probes and trying to set additional gateways.


Map analysis

+ Show Spoiler +
This build doesn’t work in close spawns, so please avoid it. Going 3gate FE is much safer here. It also doesn’t work against 1 base zerg players. Knowing this, let’s talk about the suitable maps for it:

-Scrap Station: this is a very zerg map. It’s really tough to defend early pushes from zerg because the ramp is big, so I’d suggest doing a more standard build here.

-Xel’Naga Caverns: I’d only do this build if I make the mistake in allowing the zerg player to do hatchery before pool first. In other case, I’d suggest doing a 3gate FE.

-Blackwater Gulch: This build is really powerful in this map. The choke points are so small, that it works out perfectly. You can pretty much hold on any type of 2base aggression from the zerg, no matter the spawn location. Again, if you don’t see the zerg expanding, delay your nexus a bit. It’s dangerous expanding faster than zerg because you might eat an early 1base push from him.

-Delta Quadrant: this map is just ugly… it’s so open that this build is impossible here. Avoid it.

-Metalopolis: Another good map for this build. I wouldn’t suggest doing it the zerg is in close location. Otherwise, it’s a good build for this map (see replay attached in thread).

-Shakuras Plateau: this map is awesome, but for Forge FE haha. If you don’t like opening with forge, then go ahead and use this build.

-Slag Pits: Forget doing this on close spots, you’ll get ripped apart. It’s even risky to do this on other spawns because the natural is wide open, so it’s really difficult to create a choke with buildings. I’d suggest 3gate FE opening in this map, to be safer.

-Tal’Darim Altar LE: doing FE Forge opening is a bit risky here, because you could easily get 6pooled and die. I’d suggest doing this build here no matter what the spawn is, just setting a choke first in your main to avoid cheeses, and then going for the nexus and setting another choke in your natural with pylon-gateways.

-The Shattered Temple: great map for this build, try avoiding it if zerg is in close spawn.

-Typhon Peaks: another good map for this build, no matter what the spawns are.


Replays

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]




Please if you’ve enjoyed reading this, support me at my facebook page by clicking “I like”:

www.facebook.com/capoch.ar

And also my TL fan page (I gotta tell the guy to update it a bit, it's dying there lol!)

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=200944

I’ll try posting a couple of replays doing this build soon, so stay tunned! (also gotta figure out how to post it in the thread lol).

I’m sorry if the English is not so good, but as I said, I’m from Argentina

Cheers!
Garth
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States353 Posts
April 20 2011 01:43 GMT
#2
fucking fantastic TY, I've been thinking about viable 1 gate FE's in pvz
sAfuRos
Profile Joined March 2009
United States743 Posts
April 20 2011 01:44 GMT
#3
Why not just 15/17 nexus if your opponent is FEing?
sAfuRos // twitch.tv/sAfuRos // contact for coaching
Capoch
Profile Joined April 2010
Argentina179 Posts
April 20 2011 01:46 GMT
#4
The timing is just perfect with 18 nexus, that's why
Just when you place the nexus with the 18th, your cybernetics will be done at the same time and you can begin the warp gate research upgrade
sAfuRos
Profile Joined March 2009
United States743 Posts
April 20 2011 01:49 GMT
#5
but...you cant do anything with it that is particularly advantageous in comparison to a forge opening which is safer against zerg all ins? o.o
sAfuRos // twitch.tv/sAfuRos // contact for coaching
Vaporak
Profile Joined September 2010
70 Posts
April 20 2011 01:54 GMT
#6
On April 20 2011 10:44 sAfuRos wrote:
Why not just 15/17 nexus if your opponent is FEing?


I imagine because this way you don't have to rely on a forge+cannons to safely FE, making you hopefully not so passive.


Question Capoch, I don't do forge expands because the zerg can drone and/or get super fast mutalisks as a response, how does this build fare against fast muta's or hard droning by the zerg? Either way I'm looking forward to replays!
rsvp
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States2266 Posts
April 20 2011 01:54 GMT
#7
Replays?

Your build definitely seems safe and viable, but I don't see how it's better than 3 gate FE or forge FE (with nexus first). What are the advantages of this over those other 2 PvZ FE builds?

If you wanted an early expansion, why not just forge FE? Especially if you're going to transition into robo/stargate play where you don't get a ton of sentries early on for energy buildup. I guess you might get that robo/stargate tech a little faster than a forge FE, but I'm not even sure about that since you're pulling probes off gas. You can also argue that you don't have to waste money on cannons, but actually if you go nexus first on bigger maps (or when you scout zerg going hatch first), you can go straight for gate after nexus and skip the forge/cannons safely.

If you want to transition into a 5 gate push, I don't see how this is better than 3 gate FE, since I feel like those gateway heavy timing attacks get their strength mainly from lots of sentries, and you're not going to have as many sentries with high energy using this build than a 3 gate FE.

The thing that doesn't make sense is that you pull probes off gas. If you can make this build work without having to pull probes off gas, then I can see why this build may be good. But otherwise it seems like you're just a great player with strengths in many other areas of the game and you do well with even suboptimal builds.
Capoch
Profile Joined April 2010
Argentina179 Posts
April 20 2011 01:54 GMT
#8
This build is safe if the zerg player is expanding and not on close spawns (I've specified the pros and cons of it in the main thread, the good thing about this build too is that if the spawns don't favour you for it, you can opt for the 3gate FE). It even works out so good, that it can lure the zerg into a trap thinking that you're crazy of doing FE without forge, so he'll be aggressive, and that's really when the build shines, you'll stop early aggression if you block your natural and micro correctly.

The other good thing about it is having an expo up and the warp gate research fast! you can be really aggressive early on with 5 gates. I just wish I could upload a replay of me doing this, it'll help deal with any doubts.

Please also consider that I'm still testing it myself, so there might be a couple of flaws of course. In easy wall in maps such as Shakuras, it might be wiser to do the forge FE opening.

Cheers
Capoch
Profile Joined April 2010
Argentina179 Posts
April 20 2011 01:57 GMT
#9
On April 20 2011 10:54 Vaporak wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2011 10:44 sAfuRos wrote:
Why not just 15/17 nexus if your opponent is FEing?


I imagine because this way you don't have to rely on a forge+cannons to safely FE, making you hopefully not so passive.


Question Capoch, I don't do forge expands because the zerg can drone and/or get super fast mutalisks as a response, how does this build fare against fast muta's or hard droning by the zerg? Either way I'm looking forward to replays!


Good question. This build works just perfect vs fast muta's and hard droning zergs. The reason is because after you got your 3 gates up, you can research hallucination and scout a bit to see what's going on. After scouting with your fake phoenixes, you can just adapt accordingly, so if you see mutas, you can go for a 5gate early blink push. Do a fake phoenix and blink into his main and just win the game
rsvp
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States2266 Posts
April 20 2011 01:59 GMT
#10
On April 20 2011 10:54 Capoch wrote:
This build is safe if the zerg player is expanding and not on close spawns (I've specified the pros and cons of it in the main thread, the good thing about this build too is that if the spawns don't favour you for it, you can opt for the 3gate FE)


You can safely go nexus first followed by a gateway, skipping the forge on big maps and when the zerg is expanding.
Capoch
Profile Joined April 2010
Argentina179 Posts
April 20 2011 02:04 GMT
#11
On April 20 2011 10:54 Anihc wrote:
Replays?

Your build definitely seems safe and viable, but I don't see how it's better than 3 gate FE or forge FE (with nexus first). What are the advantages of this over those other 2 PvZ FE builds?

If you wanted an early expansion, why not just forge FE? Especially if you're going to transition into robo/stargate play where you don't get a ton of sentries early on for energy buildup. I guess you might get that robo/stargate tech a little faster than a forge FE, but I'm not even sure about that since you're pulling probes off gas. You can also argue that you don't have to waste money on cannons, but actually if you go nexus first on bigger maps (or when you scout zerg going hatch first), you can go straight for gate after nexus and skip the forge/cannons safely.

If you want to transition into a 5 gate push, I don't see how this is better than 3 gate FE, since I feel like those gateway heavy timing attacks get their strength mainly from lots of sentries, and you're not going to have as many sentries with high energy using this build than a 3 gate FE.

The thing that doesn't make sense is that you pull probes off gas. If you can make this build work without having to pull probes off gas, then I can see why this build may be good. But otherwise it seems like you're just a great player with strengths in many other areas of the game and you do well with even suboptimal builds.


You only pull probes out of gas to build the nexus, after that, you pull them right back to the gas.

The thing with this build, is that is really situational. In safe maps, you can just opt for the FE Forge opening. In close spawn maps, you can opt for the 3gate FE or 5gate fake expansion, whatever you like. This build shines in semi open maps (such as Shattered Temple, Metalopolis) in far or opposite locations.
The main difference with the 3gate FE transition into a 5gate push, is that you're eco will be much stronger than it, and by pushing with this build, it wouldn't be much as an all in like it's in the 3gate FE transition into 5gate. As I said, the opponent seeing an early FE with no forge, might want to push himself, and this is where the build works out perfectly! By the time he hits you, you'll have a small choke blocked by 3 of your units (at least) and 2-3 gates up with warp gate research done. If he's pushing you, you gotta keep pumping units and chronoboosting your gateways while doing probes and trying to set additional gateways.

I have few replays showing how the build works, only wish I could post them here in the thread.

Cheers
drgonzhere
Profile Joined November 2010
United States447 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-20 02:09:39
April 20 2011 02:05 GMT
#12
Wasn't this guy on the daily on monday, and didn't spanishiwa demolish him with queen brood-lord?
Or am I imagining that?

Well, I'm sure he wasn't used to such a bizarre strategy :p
Regardless the build sounds interesting and he played well despite the silliness.
Didn't noticed if he did the build in that game though.
Dictator for Life of the PuMa Fanclub/ DRG, PuMA, Sage, Puzzle, MMA Fighting!
FataLe
Profile Joined November 2010
New Zealand4512 Posts
April 20 2011 02:08 GMT
#13
On April 20 2011 11:05 drgonzhere wrote:
Wasn't this guy on the daily on monday, and didn't spanishiwa demolish him with queen brood-lord?
Or am I imagining that?

I don't see the reason in pointing this out, it doesn't discredit his build in anyway.
hi. big fan.
sAfuRos
Profile Joined March 2009
United States743 Posts
April 20 2011 02:08 GMT
#14
For me, it seems like it would work out, but is not specifically advantageous for any sort of FE build and is less safe. I would say it gets a slightly faster 6 gate all in, but the later nexus might make that not true so i don't know.
sAfuRos // twitch.tv/sAfuRos // contact for coaching
drgonzhere
Profile Joined November 2010
United States447 Posts
April 20 2011 02:10 GMT
#15
On April 20 2011 11:08 FataLe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2011 11:05 drgonzhere wrote:
Wasn't this guy on the daily on monday, and didn't spanishiwa demolish him with queen brood-lord?
Or am I imagining that?

I don't see the reason in pointing this out, it doesn't discredit his build in anyway.

Lol yeah i realize i sounded a little crass, so i edited my post, he's obviously way better than me, so I apologize for being rude
I just found it unfortunate timing i guess idk
Dictator for Life of the PuMa Fanclub/ DRG, PuMA, Sage, Puzzle, MMA Fighting!
FataLe
Profile Joined November 2010
New Zealand4512 Posts
April 20 2011 02:13 GMT
#16
On April 20 2011 11:10 drgonzhere wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2011 11:08 FataLe wrote:
On April 20 2011 11:05 drgonzhere wrote:
Wasn't this guy on the daily on monday, and didn't spanishiwa demolish him with queen brood-lord?
Or am I imagining that?

I don't see the reason in pointing this out, it doesn't discredit his build in anyway.

Lol yeah i realize i sounded a little crass, so i edited my post, he's obviously way better than me, so I apologize for being rude
I just found it unfortunate timing i guess idk

Haha, no worries mate.

Sounds really interesting, I'll make sure to try this as soon as possible.
hi. big fan.
DragonDefonce
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States790 Posts
April 20 2011 02:17 GMT
#17
This build seems safer than forge expand because you are not blindly putting down a forge which commits you to FE. Rather, it takes the typical route, and with the scouting information, you either do this FE build or stay on 1 base and tech. The only question is its ability to stop early rushes by an FE zerg (as OP states, you would never do this against 1 base zerg), and that will need to be tested thoroughly, but if that checks out, I don't see why you would do forge expand instead of this.
xTNodub
Profile Joined January 2011
United States84 Posts
April 20 2011 02:49 GMT
#18
I'm liking this build. I definitely have to try it. Seems like this build would have better adaptability than the FFE.

Nice work Mate.
itgi eopgi geureogi
Belha
Profile Joined December 2010
Italy2850 Posts
April 20 2011 04:29 GMT
#19
On April 20 2011 10:54 Anihc wrote:
The thing that doesn't make sense is that you pull probes off gas. If you can make this build work without having to pull probes off gas, then I can see why this build may be good.


I'm one of your macro builds fan Anihc, but that sentence is wrong. Its the oposite. Any build refined to perfection should include moving workers in or out of gas, specially for early timmings when the gas requirements are so tight. I mean, maybe the Capoch build could be better with some improvements, like "not moving probes out of gas", but a build is not bad just because it moves probes from gas.

Nice variation for FE builds Capoch, is nice to take zergs out of their regular metagame


Chicken gank op
awwnuts07
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States621 Posts
April 20 2011 04:29 GMT
#20
On April 20 2011 11:05 drgonzhere wrote:
Wasn't this guy on the daily on monday, and didn't spanishiwa demolish him with queen brood-lord?
Or am I imagining that?


Yes, Capoch was on Funday Monday. Yes, he did lose to Spanishiwa. No, the loss does not take away the awesomeness of the build. I'm very interested to see this build in more than one game.
I'm a noob
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