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[G] PvZ - FE 1 Gate & Fast Warp Gate Research - Page 5

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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awwnuts07
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States621 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-24 06:10:18
April 24 2011 06:07 GMT
#81
@Capoch: Is there anyway you can add your answers to the OP? This is really important information for low-level players (like me!) who are trying to learn the build.

On April 21 2011 04:34 Capoch wrote:



a) Basically after putting down your nexus, you want to start your warp gate research and do a zealot. After that, start the probe production again, and move back 3 probes to the gas. You also want to start walling your natural in with a pylon-gateway-nexus-gateway-pylon or whatever necessary, leaving a small choke that will be blocked by 1 or 2 zealots. The chronoboost here depends on how the opponent reacts when he spots the nexus at your natural. If you want to be really safe, then chronoboost your gate and the warp gate research; if you feel comfortable, then chronoboost your nexus and warp gate research, or mix around a bit.

b) This build is really good against pushes because you’ll be getting the warp gate upgrade fairly soon, and you’ll be pumping units from 3 gates early. It’s not good against pushes in close spawns, that’s why I don’t recommend doing it in that situation, but if the opponent is in other locations, then you can stop some pushes (shown in the replays I’ve posted). An early forge or even a semi early hallucination just to get some important scouting intel and reacting accordingly to what the opponent is doing might be good. The forge is nice for the +1 and just to be safe of burrowed roaches. The beauty of the build lies in taking a nexus so fast without a forge; by doing this, most opponents will desperately react by trying to take the nexus down as fast as possible with whatever small army they have, and you’ll defend it with not much trouble (as shown in the replays).
If the opponent is more passive, you’ll have a better economy than with the 3gate FE. Of course, you will only know this by having good scouting information, and that’s why you’ll always need a probe moving around the map trying to spot some sort of early push.

c) I`ll come back with you later on the transitions topic. I need to do a lot of testing with the different transitions with this build, and see which one is most suitable, but that also of course depends on the style of the opponent. If you are facing an aggressive one that’s been pushing your natural a lot, then I’d suggest following the build with 2-3 more gates, holding on the push and being aggressive yourself, or taking another expo. If the opponent is passive, then a stargate would be a good idea. I still need to play more passive players, because most zergs have reacted aggressively when they see this build, and that’s exactly what I want them to do.


I'm a noob
Jayrod
Profile Joined August 2010
1820 Posts
April 24 2011 09:01 GMT
#82
On April 24 2011 11:18 Vaporak wrote:
I love how much more active and mobile you feel with this build compared to forge expands where you're stuck cowering in your base forever.

This is actually completely true and was the first thing I noticed when practicing the build. Some people have mentioned that you are getting less gas and its a gas heavy matchup, but I disagree. Its gas heavy because of the way people are playing it and coupled with the fact that zealots are generally weak at certain timings.

What I like about this build is how quickly you can get your infrastructure rolling. With Nex first and Forge first you really get pinned down and higher level zergs really take advantage of it well. I will say that this build is not for beginners as you will need superb crisis management and positioning to survive the inevitable early game pressure. Once you do, you'll be miles ahead of even where you would be with a nexus first opener.
Capoch
Profile Joined April 2010
Argentina179 Posts
April 24 2011 16:40 GMT
#83
Updated the OP with more info and some anwers to typical questions!

Thanks for feedback guys!

Cheers
HeyJude
Profile Joined July 2010
United States157 Posts
April 24 2011 16:55 GMT
#84
This build has been working wonders for me thus far. I've used it my last 3 PvZ games(I'm high diam). I think one reason it really shines is it has the appearance of a 3-4gate opening so unless the zerg keeps that drone around a long time to scout he won't see the nexus
awwnuts07
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States621 Posts
April 24 2011 18:16 GMT
#85
On April 24 2011 18:01 Jayrod wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2011 11:18 Vaporak wrote:
I love how much more active and mobile you feel with this build compared to forge expands where you're stuck cowering in your base forever.

This is actually completely true and was the first thing I noticed when practicing the build. Some people have mentioned that you are getting less gas and its a gas heavy matchup, but I disagree. Its gas heavy because of the way people are playing it and coupled with the fact that zealots are generally weak at certain timings.

What I like about this build is how quickly you can get your infrastructure rolling. With Nex first and Forge first you really get pinned down and higher level zergs really take advantage of it well. I will say that this build is not for beginners as you will need superb crisis management and positioning to survive the inevitable early game pressure. Once you do, you'll be miles ahead of even where you would be with a nexus first opener.


I'm a somewhat beginner (Silver), but I've been using this build and I lurv it. But I'm a little different from most Silvers in that I like builds that force me to develop skills that are generally associated with the higher levels. I don't always succeed, but when I do, it feels sweet.

With that said, I've found that this build allows me to put significant pressure on my zerg opponents because the timings for almost everything gets pushed forward by 30-60 seconds. Everyone at my level are generally prepared for only two builds: 4 gate or 3 gate expo. It's good to shake up their expectations.
I'm a noob
Capoch
Profile Joined April 2010
Argentina179 Posts
April 26 2011 03:04 GMT
#86

Thanks guys!

I'll post a couple more of replays soon.
sAfuRos
Profile Joined March 2009
United States743 Posts
April 26 2011 03:08 GMT
#87
I feel that the new patch will require some adjustments for this build, although i think this build will still be quite viable if not more viable due to faster gateway buildtime
sAfuRos // twitch.tv/sAfuRos // contact for coaching
Vaporak
Profile Joined September 2010
70 Posts
April 27 2011 07:47 GMT
#88
On April 26 2011 12:04 Capoch wrote:

Thanks guys!

I'll post a couple more of replays soon.


Thank you! I'm liking the build but obviously replays showing what to do against a variety of zerg responses would be excellent!
Capoch
Profile Joined April 2010
Argentina179 Posts
April 27 2011 20:51 GMT
#89
On April 26 2011 12:08 sAfuRos wrote:
I feel that the new patch will require some adjustments for this build, although i think this build will still be quite viable if not more viable due to faster gateway buildtime


I think the build will be even more powerful because you'll hold more easily any aggression and then can counter attack with 6gates once warp research is done!
Will have to test it tho!
UNeeK
Profile Joined January 2011
United States237 Posts
May 07 2011 00:31 GMT
#90
thanks so much for posting this build Capoch, im the one who was bugging you on battle.net to post this I just finally noticed it.

Anyways, I am going to be testing this in customs and lower leagues [im only plat/diamond level ] I like how refined this build is... but once again, thanks a bunch...
Drolla
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom389 Posts
May 08 2011 11:36 GMT
#91
Have you ever tried incorporating Stargate play into this? I'm trying to find a way to effectively do it and I'm wondering if you have been able to make it work.
panda_inc
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Australia170 Posts
May 08 2011 12:29 GMT
#92
thank you capoch, im just so uncomfortable with cannon rushing and paranoid about 6 pools that i only ever 3 gate FE except on shukuras where i can safely FFE. now i have a safe reaction for hatch first openings vs zerg :D
Vaporak
Profile Joined September 2010
70 Posts
May 10 2011 19:29 GMT
#93
Hey Capoch, do you have any more replays or thoughts about this build? I'm using this opening whenever I can, but I just don't know the best responses against what I end up scouting.
MinimalMagic
Profile Joined March 2011
Denmark21 Posts
May 10 2011 20:00 GMT
#94
This sounds like a pretty nice build think i'll have to try it out. :D
blooblooblahblah
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia4163 Posts
May 13 2011 07:20 GMT
#95
Tried out this build a couple of times and i love it. It's a great option for maps where you can't FFE and it gives you a more economic option instead of a 3Gate FE when they aren't close spots.

I've found that a lot of zergs like to mass a lot of lings when they see this and so many times i thought i was gonna die but the sim city helps so much. It's a really nicely refined build and i like the idea of Protoss taking probes off gas for a faster expansion.
Ganzi beat me without stim. Ostojiy beat me with a nydus. Siphonn beat me with probes. Revival beat my sentry-immortal all-in.
Sated
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
England4983 Posts
May 13 2011 22:18 GMT
#96
--- Nuked ---
darmousseh
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3437 Posts
May 13 2011 22:21 GMT
#97
I saw a recent streamed game where the protoss did 1 gate FE. Idra just made a bunch of roaches and lings and destroyed it. I'll try to find the vod. He said it was a "terrible build" though since you cannot apply any pressure and the zerg can just make an unlimited economy.
Developer for http://mtgfiddle.com
iChau
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1210 Posts
May 13 2011 22:54 GMT
#98
On May 14 2011 07:21 darmousseh wrote:
I saw a recent streamed game where the protoss did 1 gate FE. Idra just made a bunch of roaches and lings and destroyed it. I'll try to find the vod. He said it was a "terrible build" though since you cannot apply any pressure and the zerg can just make an unlimited economy.


Well well well maybe this build is designed to catch up in economy while pressure after the economy kicks in.
us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1688911/1/SaniShahin/ | http://teamenvy.net/
Belha
Profile Joined December 2010
Italy2850 Posts
May 13 2011 23:11 GMT
#99
Hey Capoch, how is the build working now with the new patch? Still viable?
Chicken gank op
Capoch
Profile Joined April 2010
Argentina179 Posts
May 14 2011 23:41 GMT
#100
On May 11 2011 04:29 Vaporak wrote:
Hey Capoch, do you have any more replays or thoughts about this build? I'm using this opening whenever I can, but I just don't know the best responses against what I end up scouting.


I'm testing this build with the new patch and its still viable. I'll try to post a couple more replays soon!
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