• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:29
CEST 12:29
KST 19:29
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202550RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams4Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing RSL Season 1 - Final Week The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
Ginuda's JaeDong Interview Series [Update] ShieldBattery: 1v1 Fastest Support! BW General Discussion ASL20 Preliminary Maps BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
CSL Xiamen International Invitational [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 819 users

Is game knowledge really important for a caster?

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 15 16 17 Next All
MementoMori
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada419 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-16 19:39:20
February 16 2011 19:17 GMT
#1
With the announcement of http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/KellyMILKIES as the new GSL code A caster I've read many posts questioning her game knowledge. Setting aside whether or not she truly does possess game knowledge, the question comes to mind, is it even important?

[image loading]


In my view, there's an important distinction between casting and commentating. Our favorite casting archon tastosis is comprised of one caster and one commentator (see below)

[image loading]

Artosis fills his role of commentator by providing game high level game knowledge. While Tasteless does sometimes cross into this role as well, his primary role has been entertainment value. I think that entertainment value is something which is being forgotten in many discussions of casters or casting teams.

It seems very likely that Kelly will not be casting alone and with rumors going around that she will be joined by http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/TorcH, what does it matter if she does not have as much game knowledge as Artosis for example? She will likely fill the role that Tasteless has been filling.

To me, entertainment value is a huge part of watching something like the GSL. It would be easy to find a pro player who could sit down and robotically say what each player is probably thinking but nobody would watch that. In the GSL specifically, it comes down to the team (one person for entertainment, one person for game knowledge).

As another example, take the cynnical brit Total Biscuit. He may not always be the most knowledgeable, but his enthusiasm is contagious (at least it for a lot of people).

I really think the most important quality for a caster to have is personality. We are watching things like the GSL for entertainment after all, and if entertaining commentators weren't important I think we'd all just be watching replays instead. Commentaros fill that role and I think skill in commentating is just as important (if not more important) than straight up game knowledge.

I just feel like sometimes people say they want one thing in a caster, but when we look at the most popular casters out there at the moment, I think the conclusion we have to come to is that the average person isn't looking for tip-top game knowledge, they're looking to be entertained.

What do you guys think? Is entertaining commentary with likable personalities necessary to help bring esports the popularity it deserves globally and in the West? Or is game knowledge the #1 consideration for you? Also, since the majority of us would like to see SC2 popular in the west, what kind of caster/commentating team do you think would be best to reach a wider audience?

Edit: I'm definitely not trying to say that a funny guy off the street who has absolutely no game knowledge at all would be good by any stretch. Certainly, they must have at least some.
for the world is hollow and I have touched the sky
Backpack
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1776 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-16 19:23:56
February 16 2011 19:23 GMT
#2
Game knowledge is the most important, but spitting it out all the time is not.

The point of understanding the game is so that you are never wrong when you do get analytical. Tastosis joke around a lot but when it does get serious, Artosis' game sense is almost always flawless.

Lesser commentators sometimes predict wrong outcomes of strategies or don't make any predictions at all.
"You people need to just generally care a lot less about everything." -Zatic
thebigdonkey
Profile Joined September 2010
United States354 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-16 19:24:23
February 16 2011 19:23 GMT
#3
I thought Idra did an excellent job as an analyst even though he didn't exhibit much "personality". He shared insights on the matches that the layperson wouldn't have which enhanced my enjoyment of the games. I'd take two idras over two clueless "personalities".
Clicker
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1012 Posts
February 16 2011 19:24 GMT
#4
Game knowledge is pretty important for me, I enjoy when Artosis can explain his experiences with certain build that's happening in the game.

Lack of game knowledge shows up in Husky casts, where he is constantly saying X is going to happen, but it never does.

Personality is huge as well, and we'll see how she does in the future. I'm sure she'll be fine.
kommunalka
Profile Joined February 2011
United States550 Posts
February 16 2011 19:25 GMT
#5
I think this draws an interesting parallel to John Madden, insanely popular at football commentating without providing actual analysis. By and large, the majority of people tuning into GOM's foreign steam probably have some understanding of the mechanics of StarCraft 2. Entertainment value is important and it will be interesting to see how the code A commentating shapes up.
rG
Meteora.GB
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada2479 Posts
February 16 2011 19:26 GMT
#6
Hopefully the casting turns out fine. People sometimes bash at Tasteless for lacking game sense or something along those lines, but I recall that Artosis normally handles the analysis part while Tasteless touches on some of the more basic things.
Theclutch
Profile Joined January 2009
United States119 Posts
February 16 2011 19:26 GMT
#7
Of course game knowledge is important. I don't care how entertaining the person is, if they know nothing about what they are talking about then they shouldn't be hired to talk about it. You wouldn't want to listen to a sports game when the casters knew next to nothing about what was going on would you? Starcraft is no different in that aspect.
B.I.G.
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
3251 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-16 19:29:51
February 16 2011 19:28 GMT
#8
i agree, but only to a certain degree. although artosis drops the knowledge more often, so does tasteless. Their combined experience in pro gaming and knowledge makes them such a succesful duo that take not of every little thing that happens. A very enthusiastic commentator with little knowledge will not be as able to excite the audience as much purely because he or she will be less capable to explain why it is exciting. To give a football (soccer for US) example:
He kicks the ball to the other guy who starts running! and he kicks the ball as well!!! o my goooooood!!!
maybe a bit lame example but a more knowledgable caster would be able to explain how the attack is constructed etc.
vyyye
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden3917 Posts
February 16 2011 19:28 GMT
#9
On February 17 2011 04:26 Theclutch wrote:
Of course game knowledge is important. I don't care how entertaining the person is, if they know nothing about what they are talking about then they shouldn't be hired to talk about it. You wouldn't want to listen to a sports game when the casters knew next to nothing about what was going on would you? Starcraft is no different in that aspect.

Yet people enjoyed Khaldor's stream without even speaking German. There's clearly more than just analysis required for a caster, and Khaldor had enough of that for it to outweigh the language barrier.
Dommk
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia4865 Posts
February 16 2011 19:29 GMT
#10
Not sure if it actually does.

Case in point:

During Assembly I was watching the German stream (can't remember his name), I don't understand German at all but it was Brilliant, he used English names for the units/players and that is all I could figure out, but he was very entertaining, very emotional as well. A lot of people were watching his stream that could not understand German, and honestly, even though I can't understand him, I consider him to be one of the best casters around. I think that says a lot about casting
Mastermind
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Canada7096 Posts
February 16 2011 19:29 GMT
#11
In my opinion the only thing more important than game knowledge is having a voice that isnt annoying.
Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany2959 Posts
February 16 2011 19:30 GMT
#12
Game knowledge is insanely important for me. It just adds so much to the commentary.

And if someone hasn't got game knowledge that person better casts accordingly, like TotalBiscuit.
Nothing worse than people without a clue that throw around wrong facts and try to sound clever when they're not.
WrathBringerReturns said: No no no. Sarcasm is detected in the voice. When this forum is riddled with stupidity, you think I can tell every post apart? Fair enough it was intended sarcastically, was it obvious? Of course not.
DrBoo
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada1177 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-16 19:32:31
February 16 2011 19:30 GMT
#13
I think you need at least one caster with 100% knowledgeable information about the game. If they're entertaining then that's just an added bonus. I also think you need a caster who caters more to the casual people or just for entertainment value in general.
So not all casters need to know everything going on at all times in a game, that's why you have multiple casters.

Take for example the UFC you have Mike Goldberg who has lets admit it not a freaking clue what's going on in the matchup.
Then you have Joe Rogan who is very, very knowledgeable about what is happening and it works together well.
"DrBoo is an elaborate troll" -Pufftrees
LoLAdriankat
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States4307 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-16 19:32:06
February 16 2011 19:31 GMT
#14
"Ummmm he's putting down 4 gateways i think he's going to ummm make a lot of units so he has a big army" is not entertaining and it doesn't put tension on the viewers. "He's getting 4 warpgates so he can damage his opponent severely if not end the game, will his opponent be able to defend this?" is more like it.
mcleod
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada350 Posts
February 16 2011 19:33 GMT
#15
I think it's very important
I don't understand why we can't have both, an entertaining and knowledgable caster
tastosis fits this perfectly

as a high lvl player I find it hard to listen to someone who doesn't know there stuff no matter how entertaining they are
in beta I watched husky/HD all the time, but now having the game matured I can't stand to listen to them because it's clear they haven't kept their game knowledge up to par
hmunkey
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom1973 Posts
February 16 2011 19:33 GMT
#16
Yes, it's important if you want casters who know what they're talking about. No offense to popular casters like TB, HD, and Husky, but they never really have anything of substance to say that I can't see with my eyes. Seeing as I'm not blind, I value knowledge quite a bit.
Munk-E
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States672 Posts
February 16 2011 19:34 GMT
#17
remember when tastosis cast WC3? was that as good as any of their SC2 casts?

(No, "so bad it's good" doesn't count)
You recognise me because of my signature!
raser
Profile Joined May 2010
Norway301 Posts
February 16 2011 19:34 GMT
#18
grats to her for the job, gom is confident in her i guess =)
teamsolid
Profile Joined October 2007
Canada3668 Posts
February 16 2011 19:34 GMT
#19
On February 17 2011 04:29 Dommk wrote:
Not sure if it actually does.

Case in point:

During Assembly I was watching the German stream (can't remember his name), I don't understand German at all but it was Brilliant, he used English names for the units/players and that is all I could figure out, but he was very entertaining, very emotional as well. A lot of people were watching his stream that could not understand German, and honestly, even though I can't understand him, I consider him to be one of the best casters around. I think that says a lot about casting

Agreed, Vin Diesel was an awesome commentator, even though I don't understand any German. I guess we'll just have to see if Kelly can actually provide any entertainment value even if she lacks game knowledge.
Valckrie
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom533 Posts
February 16 2011 19:35 GMT
#20
Need a certain amount of game knowledge for every caster imo, but in a team it doesnt't matter if one is less knowledged than the other. The worst thing is when casters frequently make mistakes guessing a player's BO, or even getting other details wrong, I think if they were knowledged enough this wouldn't happen.
Fear is a 4 letter word. Why be afraid?
1 2 3 4 5 15 16 17 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Esports World Cup
10:00
2025 - Day 3
Reynor vs ZounLIVE!
Solar vs SHINLIVE!
Classic vs ShoWTimE
Cure vs Rogue
EWC_Arena5076
ComeBackTV 1439
EWC_Arena_2806
Hui .386
TaKeTV 288
3DClanTV 216
JimRising 159
Rex123
Reynor85
CranKy Ducklings85
mcanning61
SpeCial35
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
EWC_Arena5076
EWC_Arena_2806
Hui .386
JimRising 159
Rex 123
Reynor 85
mcanning 61
SpeCial 35
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 6591
Bisu 1189
firebathero 1000
BeSt 986
Jaedong 693
Hyuk 529
ggaemo 440
ToSsGirL 220
EffOrt 219
Leta 169
[ Show more ]
Zeus 159
actioN 153
Soma 127
Hyun 105
Mind 99
Last 85
ZerO 83
JulyZerg 71
Sharp 49
sorry 42
Sacsri 35
soO 31
NaDa 29
Soulkey 26
Stork 18
yabsab 15
Noble 13
ivOry 4
Britney 0
Dota 2
XcaliburYe241
BananaSlamJamma224
League of Legends
febbydoto12
Counter-Strike
shoxiejesuss470
x6flipin379
allub256
Other Games
singsing1924
ceh9714
Happy395
Fuzer 177
ZerO(Twitch)16
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1171
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH235
• LUISG 5
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 3
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt549
Other Games
• WagamamaTV198
Upcoming Events
Esports World Cup
1d
OSC
1d 3h
CranKy Ducklings
1d 23h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
CSO Cup
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
5 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.