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This is something I have been playing around with a lot, and understand the mechanics enough to make a post.
Note that everything that applies to Neural Parasite here can also apply to Fungal Growth, I just feel NP is a lot more useful... and I don't want to say 'NP and FG' every time
Infestors can Neural Parasite while burrowed, and it's very very useful.
How is it done?
The entire thing relies on one fact, Infestors only lose the ability to SELECT the 'neural parasite' ability while burrowed. You can in fact cast neural parasite, and select a target for neural parasite.
How:
Here it is in its most basic form:
+ Show Spoiler +
Press the 'burrow' hotkey. Before the burrow command finishes, shift-right click where you want the infestor to move, and still holding shift, press the Neural Parasite hotkey. Keep holding shift
(Note, if the burrow animation is not enough time to issue a move and queue up NP, you can tell the infestor to move, shift-queue a burrow, and then shift-queue the NP. It will work just as well).
The reticule should change to the NP, you will see the range helper surrounding the infestor.
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/1947/screenshot2010081800245.jpg) You can't see it here, but the mouse pointer is the targeting reticule that you normally see when selecting NP.
Your Infestor will now move to wherever you queued him. Since you're still in spellcasting mode, you cannot issue new move orders or you will cancel the Neural Parasite. Since he is burrowed, you will be unable to select it again until you unburrow.
Once he finishes moving (or anytime during the move) you can issue the NP command.
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/1947/screenshot2010081800245.jpg) The infestor has stopped moving.
You can wait as long as you want during this phase, and at your leisure, click on the NP target. If the target is not in range, you CANNOT select him, you must select a target in range.
+ Show Spoiler +
Note that when sending out the neural parasite, the Infestor takes NO damage - he is never visible to the Marine.
In this demonstration, an Infestor burrow-moves up to an enemy, and neural parasites another nearby enemy without ever becoming visible.
==
A bit more practical of a demonstration:
Steps with the exact keypresses (note that I use grid style, so burrow is 'b' and neural parasite is 'c', i don't know what the default hotkeys are)
(Click the pictures for larger image)
1) Three Infestors are sitting around.
+ Show Spoiler +
2) Select them, right click the bottom of the ramp, SHIFT+B (burrow), SHIFT+rightclick near the army (on the minimap), SHIFT+C. You must finish inputting these commands before the Infestors are finished burrowing. Keep holding shift
Note that Neural Parasite has been selected, as you can see in the bottom right.
+ Show Spoiler +
3) The infestors work their way over. You cannot input anything during this time, you must preserve the spellcast you queued up. You are still holding shift
+ Show Spoiler +
4) Still holding shift, left click three targets to smartcast three NPs. Now that NP has begun, you are free to do whatever. Select the thors and use 250MM cannon, select the siege tanks and focus fire, etc.
+ Show Spoiler +
5) See the destruction you have wrought, and run your infestors back home if you please
+ Show Spoiler +
==
I think that covers everything. Feel free to ask any questions and I'll answer them to the best of my ability.
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Excellent find if this does in fact work.
I play Z and T in mid-high diamond and have always felt that infestors should have kept burrowed NP from early beta/alpha. This not only buffs the infestor, but it also makes detection more and more important which is something that is lacking in SC2.
Enjoy it this while it lasts, guys!
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Oh shit I have to try this
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They didn't patch this yet? I'm surprised lol
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OMG. I have to do this next game.
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On August 18 2010 14:16 Barrin wrote:shh keep it down maybe they wont fix it 
I figure they'll fix it if they want, they must be aware of it.
I have never written a guide before, and wanted practice mostly
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Very powerful but very hard to do successfully..
yes it works
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The easier way is to press shift R+E while the infestors stand still (what strange hotkeys do you have?)
then simply click on a unit you want NP'd.. the infestor will move while burrowed and then NP
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On August 18 2010 17:49 ayadew wrote:
The easier way is to press shift R+E while the infestors stand still (what strange hotkeys do you have?)
then simply click on a unit you want NP'd.. the infestor will move while burrowed and then NP
The easier way also sucks, as you have to be within range 9 before you burrow - meaning they can see/kill your infestor before you do this. The method I describe involves moving up while stealthed and NP'ing multiple units without ever becoming visible.
Also, I specifically mentioned that I use grid style and don't know the default buttons.
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Blizzard, please, please do not nerf this. This, and spawning infested terran eggs on siegetanks to splash them to death by friendlyfire are the only tools i have to stop terran mech.
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No mather how much I love this bug I think Blizzard should and will patch this. Even if neural has been nerfed to oblivion and would be balanced as a burrowed cast spell this bug needs to go. Blizzard can't balance units or spells around bugs or else this would hurt the lower segments who are unable to do these nifty tricks and are stuck with worthless spells.
I would however want Blizzard to consider making the burrow cast a permanent change. Since the short duration of the spell, the high cost, it being channelled and the low survivability of infestors I don't think it would be overpowered.
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17070 Posts
On August 19 2010 05:08 Batch wrote:
No mather how much I love this bug I think Blizzard should and will patch this. Even if neural has been nerfed to oblivion and would be balanced as a burrowed cast spell this bug needs to go. Blizzard can't balance units or spells around bugs or else this would hurt the lower segments who are unable to do these nifty tricks and are stuck with worthless spells.
I would however want Blizzard to consider making the burrow cast a permanent change. Since the short duration of the spell, the high cost, it being channelled and the low survivability of infestors I don't think it would be overpowered.
This is just horrible reasoning. There are plenty of people who don't know how to storm or force-field effectively, but are you saying Blizzard should nerf those spells because slower players don't have the mechanics to cast the spells?
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Calgary26003 Posts
4v4 here I come. Work can't end fast enough.
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17070 Posts
Haha, in 4v4s I used to play, superiorwolf would mass infestors while we'd keep the opponents busy, then he'd go with mass infestor and burrowcast mass Infested Terrans in people's bases. It was hilariously funny.
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On August 19 2010 05:11 Empyrean wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2010 05:08 Batch wrote:
No mather how much I love this bug I think Blizzard should and will patch this. Even if neural has been nerfed to oblivion and would be balanced as a burrowed cast spell this bug needs to go. Blizzard can't balance units or spells around bugs or else this would hurt the lower segments who are unable to do these nifty tricks and are stuck with worthless spells.
I would however want Blizzard to consider making the burrow cast a permanent change. Since the short duration of the spell, the high cost, it being channelled and the low survivability of infestors I don't think it would be overpowered. This is just horrible reasoning. There are plenty of people who don't know how to storm or force-field effectively, but are you saying Blizzard should nerf those spells because slower players don't have the mechanics to cast the spells?
There is a difference between being able to storm effectively and being able to activate a command at all. Clearly Blizzard intended infested terran to be the only burrow-cast ability of the Infestor, by allowing the other spells to also be burrow-cast via the use of a "pressing two keys within the span of 200ms" Starcraft 2 starts to becomes akin to Street Fighter where only after hours of practicing a button combination can someone reliably pull off Zangief's 360 pile driver move. NOTE: I don't think burrow-cast is that hard to pull off, but some players might, and it might be dependent on how fast your computer is, slower computers being better for this bug I bet
Pretty sure if burrow-cast stayed in the game, it would lead to more players with slow keypress speed into buying mice and assigning macros to them, just to be able to do it. And who could blame them if all the faster zerg players were happily burrow-casting, exploiting a game flaw that wasn't meant to exist? What if a similar bug let Ultralisks fly, but only 200 APM players could manage to do it, keep that too?
Batch's reasoning is sound. Unintentional bugs can turn out to be beneficial for a game, but that does not mean the default should be to keep them around. I say this being a zerg player and really wanting a NP buff btw.
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On August 19 2010 06:09 Johnny_Vegas wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2010 05:11 Empyrean wrote:On August 19 2010 05:08 Batch wrote:
No mather how much I love this bug I think Blizzard should and will patch this. Even if neural has been nerfed to oblivion and would be balanced as a burrowed cast spell this bug needs to go. Blizzard can't balance units or spells around bugs or else this would hurt the lower segments who are unable to do these nifty tricks and are stuck with worthless spells.
I would however want Blizzard to consider making the burrow cast a permanent change. Since the short duration of the spell, the high cost, it being channelled and the low survivability of infestors I don't think it would be overpowered. This is just horrible reasoning. There are plenty of people who don't know how to storm or force-field effectively, but are you saying Blizzard should nerf those spells because slower players don't have the mechanics to cast the spells? There is a difference between being able to storm effectively and being able to activate a command at all. Clearly Blizzard intended infested terran to be the only burrow-cast ability of the Infestor, by allowing the other spells to also be burrow-cast via the use of a "pressing two keys within the span of 200ms" Starcraft 2 starts to becomes akin to Street Fighter where only after hours of practicing a button combination can someone reliably pull off Zangief's 360 pile driver move. NOTE: I don't think burrow-cast is that hard to pull off, but some players might, and it might be dependent on how fast your computer is, slower computers being better for this bug I betPretty sure if burrow-cast stayed in the game, it would lead to more players with slow keypress speed into buying mice and assigning macros to them, just to be able to do it. And who could blame them if all the faster zerg players were happily burrow-casting, exploiting a game flaw that wasn't meant to exist? What if a similar bug let Ultralisks fly, but only 200 APM players could manage to do it, keep that too? Batch's reasoning is sound. Unintentional bugs can turn out to be beneficial for a game, but that does not mean the default should be to keep them around. I say this being a zerg player and really wanting a NP buff btw.
I've analyzed this in huge depth (I play fighting games very competitively) and I call them skill cliffs.
Normally if you chart 'skill' vs 'result', you see the result growing as you acquire more skill. It might go up gradually, and taper as it gets higher - like a logarithmic scale. If I partake in the korean pro-gaming training regiment for a month, I'm sure I'd see a huge increase in my skill. However, someone who's already a pro gamer will not experience the same growth. This is usually ideal in games.
What we see here is a skill 'cliff'. I made a big stink about this with regards to Fazing - it's simply if you don't have to skill to do a particular move, then you can't do it. If you are just fast enough, then you get a huge benefit. The graph in this regard wouldn't look like a linear progression, it would be horizontal, vertical line, horizontal. The difference between someone who can Faze and someone who can't Faze is huge compared to the guy who doesn't know what fazing is and the guy who can almost faze.
An analogy I use is Roll Cancelling in CVS2. It's when you input a roll (lp+lk) which normally lets your character roll on the ground, going invincible for a short period of time but being stuck in the roll animation shortly after. It's a good way to escape pressure, but if your opponent predicts it he can punish you for it.
Eventually folks discovered Roll Cancelling (RC). If you input a roll, and then within 2 frames inputted a special move (such as a fireball), then you would gain all the invincibility of the roll while you perform the special move. The entire pro scene shifted to RC sonic boom guiles, RC balls + electricity blankas, RC crazy kicks ken, etc.
The point is that someone who couldn't execute the (rather difficult) sequence of Roll Cancelling simply couldn't compete against someone who could. Now, for the game to be balanced, it has to be balanced in the presence of roll cancelling. This means that if you DON'T know how to roll cancel, you're simply underpowered.
Suddenly it's not a high-skill move or tactic anymore, it's an entry barrier. You simply have to learn it in order to compete. There are tons of these in fighting games.
I think something should either be allowed or not. If Neural Parasite is balanced around the ability to cast it while burrowed, then why not simply let players do it? Why force them to learn this sequence?
If NP is balanced around the fact that infestors can NOT cast it while burrowed, then it simply becomes too strong. If the game is perfectly balanced (obv it's not atm), and you add a useful ability to one race, then you are distrubing the balance.
I think Blizzard should pick one, allowed or not allowed, and do away with the skill barrier in either case.
That being said, I think Johny_Vegas is using too strong a hyperbole here. The method I described isn't difficult at all - I was able to do it while taking a screenshot after each step. You can press one button every 3 seconds and still do it - it's just a matter of knowing the sequence.
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