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P.P.S. Reading the thread made me realise how many people haven't even heard of other casters apart from Day9, Husky and HD, so I included a list of those mentioned. Feel free to send me a PM if you want to be included in the list.
There we go (in no particular order):
GLHF.tv
ICCup TV
Total Biscuit
PsyStarcraft
Schicky
AskJoshy
SaharaDrac
Makh
GLHF.it
Big T
IskatuMesk
bakedace
Destiny
Vincere
Tag
Gretorp
Chill
Orb
HuK
TheGunRun
Drogith
Forsti (usually in German and hence last in the list)
Arby3k and Truth
BlitzKrieg3002
Achaia
Kitty & Krystos
Dear shoutcasters,
Now, before I begin I would like to state that I have never done any sort of commentary. I am just another ordinary viewer (who has done some Media Studies but that doesn't really matter).
Most of you probably realise this but just in case: the SC2 scene is growing fast and as the number of people watching is increasing, so are the demands to proper presentation by you. Covering a RTS game is a rather tricky thing to do: you are at the same time commentators, operators and directors - a challenging role indeed. However, there are plenty of tools that modern technology provides to you in order to make esports coverage possible, and the most useful of them all is the easy access to your audience.
![[image loading]](http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a204/xtf_ftc/brick_wall.jpg)
This wall is not made of text.
Think about it this way. Yes, you (probably) do your job for free. Does that mean that you should not try to get better at it? Of course not. If you do not do it properly, others will take your place. This thread is not about bashing the ones we find irritating or incompetent but rather to highlight what is done in an appealing way, what is not and what we would like to see change with time.
I am in no way under the illusion that this topic will cover all the issues or be objective but I do believe that those casters who bother reading it will find plenty of useful information in the replies.
![[image loading]](http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a204/xtf_ftc/thLogo.png)
Just Googled it.
I will start with some very basic points. It may sound obvious but the most important thing to do is to offer a comprehensive coverage of the game.
Example: Player A sends some units towards Player B's base. Even on the smallest map this takes some time.
The bad caster follows this group of units' tedious journey.
The good caster looks at how Player B's defence is set up, checks the production tab, pays attention not only to the tech path players have taken but to the whole organisation of their bases, etc.. Just like any decent player, the caster is overseeing the progress of the same group of units on the minimap and moves the camera back to them right on time.
Proper focus
Example: Player A and Player B have a massive clash in the centre of the map. At the same time Player A sends a small force to Player B's gold expansion.
The bad caster moves the camera away in the middle of the battle to stare aimlessly at the empty place where the expansion used to be and perhaps do some mouse-clicking action, while analysing: "What an amazing move by Player A, he killed this expansion."
The good caster moves the camera for just one second and goes back to the battle immediately or does not move it at all and makes a note that the expansion has been raised. Hint: The pixels on the minimap are gone. Lost. Never to be seen again.
Now, of course, quite often it is impossible to follow all the action but just like good players will switch back and forward and try to do a lot of micro/macro, the good caster attempts to follow them.
Also, if you are casting from a replay, there is no reason not to jump backwards. The viewers want to see the full game, not just a limited portion of it.
Just like good players need to keep on high levels of concentration, so do good casters. Talking gibberish and admiring the scenery is fun every now and then but that's it. Once the game has started, keep it in mind that the insight you have can wait. Paying attention to the massacre that's going on can not.
Doing a live commentary for many hours is exhausting and with time the quality of the shoutcasting is likely to deteriorate. Perhaps one of the easiest ways to keep going is utilising every possible break you get to the maximum. Even if it is just for 30 seconds, get out of your room, do some push-ups, read some gentlemen's special interest literature - anything but starting at the screen.
Language
It's not about having a potty mouth or not. Tastes differ and whatever you do, some people will get annoyed. And, of course, there is no specific set of rules which makes you sound professional. Everything is subjective. For example, if your monicker happens to be Day9, every single time you say "shrubbery", you make hundreds of geeks happy. However, if your nickname is HD and you say "actually", one of Husky's kittens dies from a horrible... death.
![[image loading]](http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a204/xtf_ftc/photos095.jpg)
Kittens are the ultimate wall-of-text-breaker.
Also, you need to be careful with balancing the background information you give so that experienced players/viewers will not get bored, while newbies will be able to keep up with what is going on. How many times do we need to hear about Zerg's expansion pattern on Metalopolis? You have all said it sooo many times.
Of course, it is tricky, really really tricky. When you watch football, you know what a penalty is. It does not change, it's been the same ever since you were born. However, SC2 is a new game and even old gamers need some time to get used to the fact that a certain map has a short air-rush distance but moving ground army takes ages.
And, in case you don't know, professional sporting commentators piss off the viewers every day just by being professional sporting commentators. This is the last thing you have to worry about.
***
I shall stop here for now, mostly because I am just one of the many who watch your shows. Again, if you think that you have something useful to add, by all means do it. And remember that even if the SC2 scene does not grow as big as SC:BW is in South Korea, it can still be large enough for your channel to get popular and perhaps even worth running it from a financial perspective.
P.S. Oh, and thanks for what you are doing. No matter if it's just because you love the game and the community, because you want the experience for your CV, because you expect to actually profit from it or because you just want to be oh-so-popular, you are doing a good job.
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When I first started reading you'r post I thought it was going to be mindless bashing on outstanding commentators. I was wrong, good write up and I agree with almost everything. Hopefully Husky, HD, or Day9 will respond.
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A few points I'd like to comment on. If you're replay casting trying to scoot the timer back while not spoiling anything would be tricky.. and since a lot of people are dual-casting it would cause confusion and you would have to "resync" with the co-caster.. the whole thing would just become a mess.
Also.. since SC2 is truly still in its earliest stages.. and like you said.. the amount of people watching is growing, it's not a stretch to claim that people whom are very new to RTS's don't even think about the expanding pattern for zerg on metalopolis or mentioning the short air rush distance.
All in all the commentators have don't a pretty decent job thus far. The only thing I'd have to complain about is the lack of usage of the tabs while spectating. A lot of the time commentators will sit on the army tab for half the game and spectators aren't really getting all the information that we could be. However, I'm not sure if it's better to have to gauge who's ahead by the battles or if having full disclosure over everything is better for spectating.
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lol, yeah i thought this was going to be a very angry thread, because the title seemed sarcastic, but you have some good points /// especially the "proper focus" part. and in all honesty i think the english commentators should take a lesson from the koreans... even though i have no idea what they are saying, the guy controlling the mini-map and the screen is sublime and rarely if ever misses anything, and on top of that the emotion from them is fantastic.
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Great post op! Thanks for throwing it up. There are many wannabe and new casters, good ideas all.
I think it's a great point that casters should be taking breaks and trying to keep their concentration and focus levels up just as if they were laddering, even more so as hundreds/thousands will be watching.
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I'm going to make one point.
Also, you need to be careful with balancing the background information you give so that experienced players/viewers will not get bored, while newbies will be able to keep up with what is going on. How many times do we need to hear about Zerg's expansion pattern on Metalopolis? You have all said it sooo many times.
Honestly, I think it's better to work for what your theme is. Husky's casts, for example, are more about getting newer players into the game and just entertaining casting, but it's not as detailed as what Day[9] does, which is more of an analytical cast to explain the subtle strategies and subtle tactics of players. What if you have 1000 new viewers who never saw the older VOD's where you described the expansion patterns? So you alienate them? You don't have to do it every cast necessarily, but do it often enough so that newer players can get an understanding.
I do agree that sometimes casters don't always have their focus in the right place, but again, some things are obvious and again, depends on what the caster is going for. Again, Day[9] will probably pay attention to the little force going after an expo during the big battle, because he'll want to explain the point behind the attack and everything building up to it. Husky will probably want to focus on both about equally, maybe moreso on the big battle. I'd say if you are just doing it for entertainment and to show off the awesomeness of the game, you'd probably just focus on the big battle and not even pay attention to the little attack but just a little bit.
Of course, you mentioned it was subjective, so I'm not disagreeing with you, just giving a different point of view (I think).
However, something I find annoying is interruptions of the game or distractions from it. Like when a friend of the caster sends a message or something. Or when we have to see the program transitioning, like, opening up Google or whatever in the middle of the cast and it pops up. It's not a big deal, but I think it would be best to avoid those things, or take care of them before the cast. Make sure your status is Away or Busy or leave a note to not be bothered, and open up any auxiliary programs before the cast. I think the consistency would be a bit more professional, but it's not a huge issue really.
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All valid points, but really I think in the long run, people won't remember that you missed that zergling run-by while discussing the benefit of chrono boosting as much as possible. They'll remember your voice, your excitement level, and the amount and quality of the videos you produce. If I was the hypothetical best commentator ever, but I only uploaded 1 replay every 2 weeks and it was riddled with hardware lag, nobody would watch no matter how insightful or how perfect the tone might be. Thoughts on that? When you think of 5 different commentators, if you even can think of 5, what are the first three things you use to describe them? Is it how often they have the income tab open compared to the army tab, or is it much more generic?
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By the sounds of things, you should probably do some commentating yourself.
These are all valid points. I agree completely that as the player base in SC2 grows, so too will the expectations of players. Even though good commentating is a complicated juggling act for a free service - viewers are very picky. Personally, I do my best to cover as many bases as possible (please as many possible tastes while offending the fewest) -- sooner or later you've got to accept your niche and ignore/block people who don't like you.
Good post. Hope the big names read this. HD needs to stop saying actually  (he's been getting way better lately).
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Yeah really interesting read, and actually a pretty good thing for current casters to look at and engage in a little self-evaluation 
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Commentators sometimes need to be more critical of what they see and call out a blatantly bad play instead of glossing over it. Example: 20 zerglings run single-file into 6 zealots, no surround, they all die without getting a single kill. Good caster calls out the bad play on the part of the zerg. Bad caster says "great micro by the protoss" even though the protoss did not control his units in that fight.
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@Joshy - you're right in mentioning that excitement level and production quality are awfully important. You can spot a bad commentator instantly: they mumble or their video/sound is awful.
That being said, while the amazing commentator who uploads once a week with bad hardware will never match the daily commentator -- whoever masters both will ultimately be the best.
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Check out TotalBiscuit. He's an interesting counterpoint to much of the current style of Starcraft shout casting.
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I've listened to several casters,
Huk, Day[9], HD, Husky, Orb, ...
and the interesting thing is, they all have their own style because its their own project.
Sure if we had an ESPN version of Starcraft I'd expect something different than what I've seen thus far (only slightly), but the uniqueness of each caster makes it interesting. If everyone talked like an ESPN sports caster I'd probably just change the channel.
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On June 18 2010 11:40 LooseMoose wrote:
A few points I'd like to comment on. If you're replay casting trying to scoot the timer back while not spoiling anything would be tricky.. and since a lot of people are dual-casting it would cause confusion and you would have to "resync" with the co-caster.. the whole thing would just become a mess.
Also.. since SC2 is truly still in its earliest stages.. and like you said.. the amount of people watching is growing, it's not a stretch to claim that people whom are very new to RTS's don't even think about the expanding pattern for zerg on metalopolis or mentioning the short air rush distance.
Of course, a lot of things vary depending on a long list of factors and commentary will change with time. The main purpose of this thread is not to state what is right and what is wrong because it is rarely that simple but to look at what's going on and generate feedback for the casters.
On June 18 2010 11:51 OneFierceZealot wrote:and in all honesty i think the english commentators should take a lesson from the koreans... even though i have no idea what they are saying, the guy controlling the mini-map and the screen is sublime and rarely if ever misses anything, and on top of that the emotion from them is fantastic.
Indeed. The Koreans obviously have much more experience, so it only makes sense to try and learn from them.
On June 18 2010 11:59 RageOverdose wrote:I'm going to make one point. Show nested quote +Also, you need to be careful with balancing the background information you give so that experienced players/viewers will not get bored, while newbies will be able to keep up with what is going on. How many times do we need to hear about Zerg's expansion pattern on Metalopolis? You have all said it sooo many times. Honestly, I think it's better to work for what your theme is. Husky's casts, for example, are more about getting newer players into the game and just entertaining casting, but it's not as detailed as what Day[9] does, which is more of an analytical cast to explain the subtle strategies and subtle tactics of players. What if you have 1000 new viewers who never saw the older VOD's where you described the expansion patterns? So you alienate them? You don't have to do it every cast necessarily, but do it often enough so that newer players can get an understanding.
Perhaps it's worth saying that for me Day9's Dailies are a completely different genre than usual shoutcasting. So is for example Gretorp's commentary on his live stream because he is doing it from first person.
And yes, different casters have different styles. Perhaps the one I enjoyed the most was Forsti's English commentary. Because his native language is German, his spoken APM was really low and most of the time he focused on the basics and provided a solid commentary. The complete opposite is TotalBiscuit - he is like a machine gun and it is quite entertaining even when he isn't actually saying anything at all.
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I think it's important to say first of all, that all the casters are damn cool for giving us their time and effort, even if their casting may not be the best. Commentated games are just so much more exciting to watch than silent replays, especially if the commentary is well informed and enthusiastic.
I agree mostly with your post, though. I think a large part of good commentary is simply game knowledge, and that'll take some time. Especially since a lot of the best gamers in SC2 at the moment don't use strategies previously seen in each new tournament, commentators are caught off guard much more often than say, the commentators in SC1.
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I am actually interested in casting (started out with uploading my beta games on youtube). And this information is useful. When the game makes it debut I think of casting in a very easy new comer fashion, I do understand strategies and tactics, but to be at an expertise on a level such as day9 I could never be so I'll stick to basics. However in doing so, how would you go about not being repetitive in providing information in matches such as the zerg expo example mentioned.
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A basic mistake that I've seen almost all of these casters make is their sound settings. You can barely even hear the game or music and their mic is turned all the way up. I don't understand why people do that at all. It's far better when you can hear the game sounds, like in Korean SC VODs.
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There is no "right" way to do a commentary. This is entirely subjective topic as you said and is ultimately up to the audience to decide which caster's "style" they enjoy the most. I think looking at the right thing, making the right call, and choosing the right language sort of stuff will improve as commentators become more experienced. Commentating isn't an easy task after all.
However, nothing annoys me more than when someone comments "HD and Husky suck at making calls, Day9 is the best and he should do the commentary for this!" While Day9 is certainly one of the best options if you are a competitive player, many new players or casuals are turned off by his style.In fact lots of my friends prefer HD over day9 because day9 is often overwhelming and incomprehensible to a new comers of esports where as I enjoy day9's style very much personally.
Also,in my opinion, commentating should be about entertaining the audience just as much as about giving thorough coverage of the game. Koreans don't consider OGN commentators the best because they are perfect at making calls and know the game inside and out (NOT implying that they don't) but because they are entertaining. They even have their own tv show for a reason.
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Well different from the original post, but there are some things about English SC casting (live casting of a match) that have always kind of irked me:
Excitement
Where is it? Korean eSports is fun and exciting because of the casters, even though I don't know too much Korean I can hear the excitement and get enthralled in a game because of it. I also don't particularly like hearing, "Yeah this game is pretty much over, gg any minute." It just sucks the wind out of my sails especially when watching a best of 5 series.
Language
When casters (or even players/forumers in general) say things like "good micro" and "good macro" it seems silly to me. Not sure where these words originated, but they were passed down and people picked them up to try and sound gosu or something. How can I try to get a friend to watch eSports and have them enjoy it when words like that are used? What is wrong with saying "control" and "production"? To the outsider that isn't into the forum "gosu" lingo it seems like that would be a little easier to comprehend.
Copy-cat casting
Tasteless said the word blunder. Now everyone says the word blunder. I hate the word blunder. I hear the word blunder and I associate it to mean a hugeeee mistake, but then casters are saying "little bit of a blunder" when a supply depot is slightly misplaced and has no impact on the current situation. Sounds so awkward and forced. Use words you would normally use.
Focusing too much on tiny details
This one happens a lot. For example: Overlord spewing creep/creep tumors. It is a common thing now, you aren't an innovative maniac for spreading creep anymore. This doesn't really need to be talked about unless it is impacting the current situation in the game. Other things like this are constantly highlighted and talked about wayyy too much.
Talking about "what I like to do"
Interjecting and stating, "On this map I like to make ____ and do ____ with them." It seems like the caster is trying to dismiss the player's strategy as bad/inferior to what they like to do. If it is an educational audio that is maybe acceptable, but during a live tournament game it really isn't needed. It seems a bit disrespectful to make the cast about yourself instead of giving insight as to why the player in game is doing something.
Probably have more but that's all I can think of at the moment. Feel free to agree/disagree.
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EPT
