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Some friendly and well-mannered caster bashing - Page 11
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Zabimaru
United Kingdom132 Posts
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notanewmethod
3 Posts
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
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Chill
Calgary25990 Posts
On June 25 2010 13:59 fdsdfg wrote: I really hate it when a commentator points out what a player should or shouldn't be doing on a strategic level. To say he's not microing his stalkers well is fine, but to say 'i'm really surprised he is still pumping marines, he would be much better off transitioning into factory build'. You're there to commentate the match as it's happening, not try to prove to everyone that you know what you're talking about. Let that be a byproduct of casting the games. I disagree a million times over. | ||
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TotalBiscuit
United Kingdom5437 Posts
On June 25 2010 23:16 DC Elite wrote: You know what i hate more than a poor caster? A poor caster hater. Everyone is a critic, no one is going to cater to whatever stupid stuff you think so go F yourself, OP. You know what I hate more than a poor caster hater? A poor caster hater hater. No seriously, shut the fuck up, that is nonsense and nobody appreciates it. | ||
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DISHU
United Kingdom348 Posts
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On June 25 2010 13:59 fdsdfg wrote: I really hate it when a commentator points out what a player should or shouldn't be doing on a strategic level. To say he's not microing his stalkers well is fine, but to say 'i'm really surprised he is still pumping marines, he would be much better off transitioning into factory build'. You're there to commentate the match as it's happening, not try to prove to everyone that you know what you're talking about. Let that be a byproduct of casting the games. I have to disagree with you also. This prevents the spectators from learning the game more. If you know your right and you know the thing that should be done let everyone know. For example I'm Toss player. In PvT if I see a player going mass Stalker against a Siege Tank/Raven/Ghost army it is helpful to the people that may not know to explain why this is a bad idea and what would be better instead. It will help to point out that the tanks rape stalkers, PDD nullifies them, and Ghosts make them just melt and the Toss player should instead go for something else. Remember not every single player that watches knows all the intricacies of Starcraft. Many really don't have a clue what's going on but now they know if they run into that situation to not do these things. | ||
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Spidermonkey
United States251 Posts
On June 25 2010 13:59 fdsdfg wrote: I really hate it when a commentator points out what a player should or shouldn't be doing on a strategic level. To say he's not microing his stalkers well is fine, but to say 'i'm really surprised he is still pumping marines, he would be much better off transitioning into factory build'. You're there to commentate the match as it's happening, not try to prove to everyone that you know what you're talking about. Let that be a byproduct of casting the games. You realize that is what most pro sport's caster do? They say "oh they should pass here, or run, or punt". Welcome to the wide world of sports... | ||
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TotalBiscuit
United Kingdom5437 Posts
The idea that there should be no strategic analysis however is ridiculous, what are you going to fill the time with for one thing? Even SHOUTcraft has it (and it's usually wrong) and that's perhaps the most play-by-play centric cast around at the moment. | ||
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InfiniteIce
United States794 Posts
Glad to see it has evolved into a (mostly) constructive feedback thread and not a shitstorm flamefest. In reply to TotalBiscuit (and not exclusively directed at him, just that his post prompted me to reply), I do think it's a very individual basis as to how much analysis you offer as well. But there must be some. Definitely. But...Sometimes I feel that people may get bored if a caster is offering too much analysis and not enough hype. This goes for me as well, given that most of the analytical information that casters give out are things that I either consider basic or just one of those "yea i know this already". For me, the hype is in that OH SHIT moment of the caster. But maybe that's just me needing to complement my natural abilities with those of others that I don't feel I have as much of (that shoutcrafting magic.) In order to attract new viewers to me, I feel that I need to have more hype than in-depth analysis, but my end-game audience is a more high-level audience; and feel that a more analytical style suits me better than a HOLY SHIT LOOK AT THIS MARAUDER TAKING DOWN THIS PROBE OH MY GOD! I consider myself to be But I just don't feel like I can attract that initial base of people without those "big-name" replay/VOD casts and some shoutcrafting; it kind of feels like some of the earlier casters have laid this foundation by being not so knowledgeable, but very excitable...I think it's definitely too early for me to assert this as correct, or to answer this question myself, but it's been bothering me, with the gravitation toward this hype-style for the casual gamer...how do you get past that "not exciting enough and I have no idea who this guy is" mode, into that "he isn't screaming into my ear, and he knows his shit" area with viewers? Does anybody think that it's even possible to get into the "analysis" sort of casting, for high-level players? I feel that a lot of the analytical stuff is catered mostly toward entry or mid-level players, since the higher-level players already know a lot of the things that casters mention.. Ok, sorry to get somewhat off-topic. As an aside, I've read through this entire thread... There are a lot of people here with talent. Keep it up everybody. PS: Fuck YouTube for pausing my video upload because I was watching one of Psy's casts I decided to look at from reading this thread. I'm watching it to pass time, YouTube, don't make me wait! F%$% | ||
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Millsington
United States28 Posts
I think it depends on the aims of the cast. For Day who is doing play analysis, seeing the replay beforehand is probably useful, whereas if you just want to watch a game I love to hear commentators initial reactions to strange occurrences. Another thing that I'd like to see more of is background. How did the builds of each player evolve over the beta. Is there a particular deviation on the current map, and why. What used to be preferred and why is it no longer preferred. Stuff like that doesn't come up too much in the casts I watch (excepting Day9 who somehow remembers specific broodwar games from 1995) anyway and I find it interesting to hear how builds and players grow over time. I know I can't expect casters to know SC2 players as well as sports commentators know the pro athletes stats and history but even a little background from a couple older games would, I think, add a lot to the cast and give you something to talk about in the first few minutes. Anyway, thanks again for all your hard work casters. | ||
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Santriell
Belgium151 Posts
On June 18 2010 11:59 RageOverdose wrote: Honestly, I think it's better to work for what your theme is. Husky's casts, for example, are more about getting newer players into the game and just entertaining casting, but it's not as detailed as what Day[9] does, which is more of an analytical cast to explain the subtle strategies and subtle tactics of players. What if you have 1000 new viewers who never saw the older VOD's where you described the expansion patterns? So you alienate them? You don't have to do it every cast necessarily, but do it often enough so that newer players can get an understanding. A) Like it's hard to figure out. B) "Newer players" don't understand half the shit that's going on until they played the game themselves for a while, hence they're not watching replays. What if you have 1000 new viewers who never saw the older VOD's where you described the expansion patterns? Maybe they can just click on the gigantic "OLDER VIDEOS" button present in sooo many streaming sites ? Guess that's too hard to figure out as well. Considering everyone as lazy and clueless as you are seems to be the new standard for "caring, web 2.0 hip kids"... | ||
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Spidermonkey
United States251 Posts
On June 26 2010 07:06 Santriell wrote: A) Like it's hard to figure out. B) "Newer players" don't understand half the shit that's going on until they played the game themselves for a while, hence they're not watching replays. Maybe they can just click on the gigantic "OLDER VIDEOS" button present in sooo many streaming sites ? Guess that's too hard to figure out as well. Considering everyone as lazy and clueless as you are seems to be the new standard for "caring, web 2.0 hip kids"... Wow someone warped in on the wrong side of the pylon. | ||
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WhistlingMtn
United States190 Posts
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
i got an advise for new commentators. become real good at the game, i mean like being able to halfwin tournaments then the quality of ur analysis and opinions will be alot more precise. just because u can analyse well and know how rts games work doesnt mean u will do a great job in a new game without actually being good at the game. its basically rule number 1 and this is how tasteless says in his vods to others. learning the game before actually starting to commentate is the best way to go imo. same thing goes for mapmaking ) | ||
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Drogith
United States1350 Posts
That and get more subs, but mostly the first bit. | ||
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JoeCrow
United States167 Posts
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ashburn
Singapore76 Posts
Recently, I'd decided to have some fun *recording* (not live) some SC2 videos and I was shocked to find it so extremely difficult. Worse, when I playback and hear myself, I almost died. It kept me distressed for a couple of days. Do I really sound so bad? I showed my gf what I was doing and she helped me point out quite a number of things... like repeatedly saying "right?", "so..", "ermm..", and the favorite "actually.." :p After this experience I had a new-found respect for the showcasters. I played one of the random stuffs from Husky, and even my gf was impressed. She said his pronunciation is clear, and the words are basically grammatically perfect. He is interesting and engaging. I switched over to HD, and we do spotted more "and.." than normal, but it was great as well! I realise it is really not easy to keep talking coherently when you're trying to analyse something and sound smart at the same time. I'm thinking.. you can only become better at something by doing it! So I'll probably keep doing it. I have no great ambitions, but just wanna have some fun at it, and improve my fluency in expressing myself verbally. Hopefully, this will extend to and improve other parts of my life as well. In the meantime, respect to all the casters doing their thing live. | ||
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cucumber
United States116 Posts
Husky, I donated $100 to you a couple of weeks ago. You know I like you. I don't want a shoutout; I already told you that I don't care about that, and I did it under a different ID. What I want is you to stop doing your "mocking things" voice with a lisp. Please? (You are poised to be announcing stuff to exponentially more people than you are now and some non-trivial number, including me, are going to be annoyed by your lapsing into lisping to express lameness. You can also ignore this and I'll also follow you ... just some advice to help you grow w/o pissing off masses of people you so easily don't need to.) | ||
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Sadistx
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
On June 26 2010 07:41 Morrow wrote: i got an advise for new commentators. become real good at the game, i mean like being able to halfwin tournaments then the quality of ur analysis and opinions will be alot more precise. just because u can analyse well and know how rts games work doesnt mean u will do a great job in a new game without actually being good at the game. its basically rule number 1 and this is how tasteless says in his vods to others. learning the game before actually starting to commentate is the best way to go imo. same thing goes for mapmaking ) You realize how time consuming that is, to be on the level of top players like yourself and then practice commentating at the same time for months and probably years? Not many people have that kind of opportunity or commitment, so they should just do what they are able to do. It's great that we have extremely dedicated people like Day9, but it's doubly awesome that there are dozens of people who could step in. Besides it doesn't take a tournament winner to understand what's going on strategically, even average players can see the mistakes of pros, because they have perfect information on both players. Commentating is more about paying attention and it's going to be even easier in SC2, because you'll be able to see what each player is doing from their point of view. | ||
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