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Secession in the United States

Forum Index > General Forum
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TanGeng
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sanya12364 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-12 12:30:10
November 12 2009 02:31 GMT
#1
Engaging in several debates concerning public policy (bad idea), it often felt like my debate partner and I are just talking past each other. These political debates reminded me of a wonderful presentation by Juan Enriquez to Pop!Tech a few years ago.

30 minutes long: starts out very slow, but good learning experience if you have the time.

NO FLASH IN BB CODE
Link! http://www.poptech.org/popcasts/juan_enriquez__poptech_2006

Please note that this presentation was in 2006. Most of the trends that Juan Enriquez presented have gotten worse and sometimes significantly worse. There are other secessionist movement all over the world. Some Belgians are thinking of destroying their country. Afghanistan is not even close to a unified country. Iraq is only being held together because of US intervention. US national debt is even worse condition than it was before. Hispanics are even larger percentage of the American population. Drawing of parallels with the British Empire might be alarming.

Please watch it and volunteer your answers to these two questions. Feel free to expound on your opinions. But please try to stay on topic. (I might be I asking too much!)
[image loading]

Poll: Will there be a secession of states from US within the next 20 years?
(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No

Here's my opinion for anyone that would like to know.
+ Show Spoiler +
I think there will be some form of secession when the federal debt becomes unmanageable, and default or severe inflation risk will probably cause the richer parts of the country to secede from the union.

I tend to welcome this prospect provided that it's done in peace without civil war and without a giant wall fencing people in(Germany). The wide political differences between various states and politics could become a subject of intellectual curiosity rather than rabid political opposite. Not having to fight over the spoils of politics may have that positive effect.


damn... forgot about the tag... Is this a [P]? I'd like it to be as apolitical as possible.


Second question - now about Mexico! There are five major drug cartels down there. They are very territorial, often running both government drug warriors and competing cartels off of their territory. One of these cartels, La Familia, has started branching off into social services and providing welfare for the local population in exchange for local support. Sometimes, they protect the local population from "enterprising" policemen. The other cartels are watching and learning from the experiment. All of them have been trying to control the media. In the past, it's been fatal intimidation. Recently, it's more of subtle intimidation, bribery, or persuasion. They've been marketing themselves as positive social force in Mexico. The move towards non-violent activities while "controlling" territory inside Mexico are all steps towards gaining legitimacy among the people. If the trend continues, drug cartels may very well replace Mexico Federals as the de facto government in parts of Mexico. So the question here is:
[image loading]

Poll: How many Mexican drug cartels will become defacto governments in the next 20 years?
(Vote): None
(Vote): One or Two Cartels
(Vote): Three or More Cartels


As per request a third poll:
[image loading]

Poll: What would be your reaction to a part of the country seceding?
(Vote): Move there. Be free of central government tyranny!
(Vote): Personally take up arms. Kill those traitors!
(Vote): I don't know. I am a drone. I listen to whatever my government tells me to do.
(Vote): War! I might not fight but at least I'm a chickenhawk!
(Vote): Peace! Let them secede!
(Vote): Secession is a good idea. I think I'll do it, too.
(Vote): I hope it doesn't affect me. I think I'll hide under a rock until everything blows over.


Moderator我们是个踏实的赞助商模式俱乐部
Meta
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States6225 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-12 07:38:58
November 12 2009 02:34 GMT
#2
The only state that I would think MIGHT consider seceding sometime in the future is Utah, because they're like 50+% backwards brainwashed nuts

It's important to note that the only time that states have ever seceded was due to drastic social change driving the economy of the people with rights (at the time) into oblivion. Change in policy drove the people with power/money in those states to the ground. This is not happening at all currently. What motivation would an individual state have to secede? It's not like the rest of the country is individually forcing people out of their jobs, one by one.

EDIT:

I've actually changed my mind. I plan on seceding until I can participate in the OSL finals raffle. Down with America!
good vibes only
statix
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States1760 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-12 02:36:46
November 12 2009 02:36 GMT
#3
Isn't the only state that can legally secede Texas? I think the others seceding would be an act of war.
SCC-Caliban
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-12 02:51:24
November 12 2009 02:49 GMT
#4
I think there will be some form of secession when the federal debt becomes unmanageable, and default or severe inflation risk will probably cause the richer parts of the country to secede from the union.


Eh, if you look at history, the debt was much worse after world war 2. We need a much better system of handling our peacetime finances, but we're not in crisis mode or even close to it.

I don't see how this isn't political. Would you mind explaining?
Jayme
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States5866 Posts
November 12 2009 02:52 GMT
#5
On November 12 2009 11:36 statix wrote:
Isn't the only state that can legally secede Texas? I think the others seceding would be an act of war.


Texas pretty much lost that right to "secede" when they lost the civil war.

The new "No one can secede" doctrine after the union was reformed is lawfully overriding it... whether people follow that or not is up to debate.
Python is garbage, number 1 advocate of getting rid of it.
Undisputed-
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States379 Posts
November 12 2009 02:53 GMT
#6
Impeach obama, we have had enough awful presidents. I think that would be a good start.
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.
jello_biafra
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
United Kingdom6635 Posts
November 12 2009 02:53 GMT
#7
I highly doubt this will happen, would be a retarded move for whatever state decided to do it.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions | aka Probert[PaiN] @ iccup / godlikeparagon @ twitch | my BW stream: http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/jello_biafra
meeple
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Canada10211 Posts
November 12 2009 02:54 GMT
#8
Can you fix the video embed in the OP?
InToTheWannaB
Profile Joined September 2002
United States4770 Posts
November 12 2009 02:59 GMT
#9
why the hell would any state leave the union now a days? Fix the link Because I have to know if there is any rational debate to even be made.
When the spirit is not altogether slain, great loss teaches men and women to desire greatly, both for themselves and for others.
BuGzlToOnl
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
United States5918 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-12 03:03:17
November 12 2009 03:00 GMT
#10
As far as I know Pennsylvania is the only commonwealth in the US.

It's not actually a state, but gets counted as one for some unknown reason. Technically we've been "seceded" from the rest of the US since the beginning.
If you want to make God laugh, tell Him your plans.
NovaTheFeared
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States7222 Posts
November 12 2009 03:01 GMT
#11
Are you high?
日本語が分かりますか
Jyvblamo
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada13788 Posts
November 12 2009 03:01 GMT
#12
Quebec wants to secede from Canada.
Good luck, suckers.
tree.hugger
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-12 03:31:19
November 12 2009 03:03 GMT
#13
Reminds me of this dude.

Look, there's absolutely no reason for any state to leave the United States right now, the interests of our individual states are too intertwined, and the politics of becomming a country would be too messy. Not to mention that little thing called... uh... treason.

Not happening.
ModeratorEffOrt, Snow, GuMiho, and Team Liquid
Carnac
Profile Blog Joined December 2003
Germany / USA16648 Posts
November 12 2009 03:06 GMT
#14
On November 12 2009 12:03 tree.hugger wrote:
Reminds me of this dude.

hahahaha, wow

[image loading]


this is great
ModeratorHi! I'm a .signature *virus*! Copy me into your ~/.signature to help me spread!
Undisputed-
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States379 Posts
November 12 2009 03:07 GMT
#15
Forget secession. We are all going to join the new world order anyway!

<tin foil hat engaged>



I like his accent.
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.
Jyvblamo
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada13788 Posts
November 12 2009 03:07 GMT
#16
On November 12 2009 12:06 Carnac wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 12 2009 12:03 tree.hugger wrote:
Reminds me of this dude.

hahahaha, wow

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


this is great

We get Mount Rushmore, hell yeah.
MoltkeWarding
Profile Joined November 2003
5195 Posts
November 12 2009 03:09 GMT
#17
On November 12 2009 12:03 tree.hugger wrote:
Reminds me of this dude.

Look, there's absolutely no reason for any state to leave the United States right now, the interests of our individual states are too intertwined, and the politics of becomming a country would be too messy. Not to mention that little thing called... uh... treason.


Treason is specifically defined in the constitution. I do not think secession alone qualifies.
Sadist
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States7231 Posts
November 12 2009 03:14 GMT
#18
where the fuck were all these people when bush was in office. Seriously. Seceding from the US has got to be the most dumb fucking idea ive ever heard in my life.
How do you go from where you are to where you want to be? I think you have to have an enthusiasm for life. You have to have a dream, a goal and you have to be willing to work for it. Jim Valvano
TanGeng
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sanya12364 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-12 03:18:59
November 12 2009 03:15 GMT
#19
Updated link, but not embedded. No flash embeds on TL.
Moderator我们是个踏实的赞助商模式俱乐部
BuGzlToOnl
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
United States5918 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-12 03:17:00
November 12 2009 03:15 GMT
#20
On November 12 2009 12:06 Carnac wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 12 2009 12:03 tree.hugger wrote:
Reminds me of this dude.

hahahaha, wow

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


this is great


Hahahaha...

I've spent roughly half my life in California and the other half in Pennsylvania. AND I'm Mexican. If this ever happened I would be so torn between staying in PA or moving back to CA or moving down South.

On one hand I would never like to live under Chinese rule and would rather be labeled "European"... just a personal preference. On the other hand... Asian females > Europeans females. I go down to Mexico pretty often, LOVE IT... when visiting, but would rather not stay down there for long periods of time.

Decisions, decisions...
If you want to make God laugh, tell Him your plans.
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