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theres B rank players with like 150 apm, it has nothing to do with.
Basically solid mechanics will get you to C- and even C (i know because thats all i have and lack tons of knowledge of the game itself ;P).
If you're macro and build orders are solid you shouldnt have too much trouble getting to C. That said that's assuming its atleast half way thru the season, atm half the people you're playing at D+ are much, much higher skilled than normal D+ players.
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Listen to saome Day[9] audios. Maybe they could help you.
The ones about winning when having an advantage, designing BOs and practicing vs. lesser skilled players may prove to be especially useful. ;]
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On September 23 2009 16:38 JMave wrote:
My APM average is around 250, which I feel is sufficient to carry me through to at least a C rank(I doubt that I spam in my games).
Post a replay or 7 to prove it.
Unless you have terrible builds, spam is probably the reason why you can't get above D+. More likely, it is a combination of the two.
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Watch your own replays when you lose, and figure out what you did wrong.
Take out 1 or 2 things that you will do better next time.
This should help you improve.
and 250 APM is sufficient (savior has like 220?)
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like others have said, your apm doesn't matter. eapm is the better indicator, but it's not perfect. im assuming your race is toss, I'd say that the difference between a D+ and C- toss is about 90 eapm D+ to 110 eapm C-. that's just approximate though. for terran it's probably like 100 eapm to 120 eapm and zerg somewhere in the middle.
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Germany2762 Posts
apm has nothing to do you with your actual skill level. you can suck with 250 apm and can get to A with 130... i rather think you lack in mechanics or in the general understanding of the game.
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On September 23 2009 17:21 jhNz wrote:
apm has nothing to do you with your actual skill level. you can suck with 250 apm and can get to A with 130... i rather think you lack in mechanics or in the general understanding of the game.
you won't get to A with 130 apm, lol
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On September 23 2009 17:24 lazz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2009 17:21 jhNz wrote:
apm has nothing to do you with your actual skill level. you can suck with 250 apm and can get to A with 130... i rather think you lack in mechanics or in the general understanding of the game. you won't get to A with 130 apm, lol
Maybe A- with 150 apm if you play toss O_O
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Germany2762 Posts
On September 23 2009 17:24 lazz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2009 17:21 jhNz wrote:
apm has nothing to do you with your actual skill level. you can suck with 250 apm and can get to A with 130... i rather think you lack in mechanics or in the general understanding of the game. you won't get to A with 130 apm, lol
but you don't need much more.
even though i don't care about apm i know that ahzz was A- with 140-150 and his main race is zerg.
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There is no proven correlation between APM and skill. If there was there wouldn't be 300 APM player stuck on D/C level and there wouldn't be any A players with 125 APM.
APM is however an indication how well the player knows the next step in his plan or buildorder, but just because he can execute it fast doesn't mean what he is doing is the correct thing. Even with high APM he can do something really fucked up strategy wise, only difference between him and a slower APM player is that he fucks up faster.
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Zurich15364 Posts
To get back to the OP: As Protoss, first work on your openings. See that you get clean and solid openings that set you up well for the mid game. Don't even care about all-ins that much, first get your standard game in order. The couple of seconds you lose between gw and core matter more than any cute probe micro scouting tricks.
Secondly, proceed into making a lot of units. Seriously, D+ is like 95% macro. Your comparetively high APM gives you the physical ability, use it.
Only after you have solid openings and good midgame macro you should worry about scouting all-ins or bad decision making or game sense. If you want to get better there is no point in dealing with that earlier. Until then just eat the losses from all-ins and see that you play the standard games correctly.
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On September 23 2009 16:44 maybenexttime wrote:
Listen to saome Day[9] audios. Maybe they could help you.
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do you watch progaming vods?
if not, start doing it right now. with 250 (spamless) apm you can get anywhere with a proper knowledge of the game. also start analyzing your replays. i wouldnt promise but i think it would be rather safe to say if youre doing those 2 steps youll be c+ in 2 months.
btw:
On September 23 2009 17:15 lazz wrote:
like others have said, your apm doesn't matter. eapm is the better indicator, but it's not perfect. im assuming your race is toss, I'd say that the difference between a D+ and C- toss is about 90 eapm D+ to 110 eapm C-. that's just approximate though. for terran it's probably like 100 eapm to 120 eapm and zerg somewhere in the middle.
this is just so wrong. i can get with my 150 apm max and my 120 apm lazymode to C+ easily.
theres absolutely no correlation in between apm and skill or rank level. especially on the lower ranks you can win by pretty much everything. if its vastly higher apm than your opponent or more experience or whatever.
On September 23 2009 18:23 zatic wrote:
Secondly, proceed into making a lot of units. Seriously, D+ is like 95% macro. Your comparetively high APM gives you the physical ability, use it.
i dont wanna fight but i think its the complete opposite. when im playing from D upwards i find myself in a situation where the higher i get, the more macro takes up in my play. (lets say D 50% macro; D+ 60%; C- 70% and so on)
maybe thats just me (im relying 90% on my strategy and gamesense because i really dont have another choice with 120-150 apm)
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APM is however an indication how well the player knows the next step in his plan or buildorder, but just because he can execute it fast doesn't mean what he is doing is the correct thing. Even with high APM he can do something really fucked up strategy wise, only difference between him and a slower APM player is that he fucks up faster.
Dark Pleasure
Definitely not. At least not the way you worded it. I do understand what you mean though 
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Heya guys. Thanks for the replies. It seems that my mid-game play is really the thing that pulls me down a whole lot.
I am able to harass a zerg in PvZ from putting down his hatchery at his nat and still get my build timings right but when it comes to the mid-game. my play becomes increasingly weak.
Let's not get this thread into a strategy post but if the main gap is due to macro and mechanics, how can I improve on those?
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On September 23 2009 16:38 JMave wrote:
Hi guys. I've been loafing at D+ ever since I started getting into SC 2 years ago and I've been stuck there ever since. Apart from the occasional cheesy games that I play, I find myself being unable to surpass the D+ ranks.
My APM average is around 250, which I feel is sufficient to carry me through to at least a C rank(I doubt that I spam in my games).
I was wondering what is the skill gap between a D+ and a C- player. Proper mechanics and a higher level of game sense to scout all-ins and know what is coming is my guess but I've been at this for too long and I need some help.
I'm B- with 105 APM.
APM means nothing on these ranks.
With 250 APM you can easily get A rank.
And i think you spam because, even when i try to spam and have high APM but still play well i cant get over 180.
250 is not possible without spam. otherwise you would be progamer already(they spam too) or like 60% of ur clicks are complete useless because ur not skilled.
Once i tried to play well with low APM. I tried not to spam i single click, without playing worse.
It was a C+ game. I had 67 APM vs 232 APM and i easily won.
See i don't want to offend you or w/e, but don't even think about ur APM on this skill lvl.
It means really nothing. You can be C- with 70 APM. Just try to avoid ur mistakes and play better.
Thats all for the APM part.
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On September 23 2009 18:34 [DUF]MethodMan wrote:btw: Show nested quote +On September 23 2009 17:15 lazz wrote:
like others have said, your apm doesn't matter. eapm is the better indicator, but it's not perfect. im assuming your race is toss, I'd say that the difference between a D+ and C- toss is about 90 eapm D+ to 110 eapm C-. that's just approximate though. for terran it's probably like 100 eapm to 120 eapm and zerg somewhere in the middle. this is just so wrong. i can get with my 150 apm max and my 120 apm lazymode to C+ easily. theres absolutely no correlation in between apm and skill or rank level. especially on the lower ranks you can win by pretty much everything. if its vastly higher apm than your opponent or more experience or whatever.)
learn to read please. i said eapm. effective actions per minute. apm without spamming and redundancy.
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Zurich15364 Posts
On September 23 2009 18:34 [DUF]MethodMan wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2009 18:23 zatic wrote:
Secondly, proceed into making a lot of units. Seriously, D+ is like 95% macro. Your comparetively high APM gives you the physical ability, use it.
i dont wanna fight but i think its the complete opposite. when im playing from D upwards i find myself in a situation where the higher i get, the more macro takes up in my play. (lets say D 50% macro; D+ 60%; C- 70% and so on) maybe thats just me (im relying 90% on my strategy and gamesense because i really dont have another choice with 120-150 apm)
This is exactly what I am saying. If he wants to get better he needs to macro better (the arbitrary 95% were supposed to mean 95% of his time spend on getting better should go towards improving macro).
You personally can get away with spending 50% of your ingame on macro on D because everyone has terrible macro. The higher you get, the more important it is to have solid macro. Consequently, to get better than everyone he should improve his macro and worry about anything else later.
Edit: I stress this becuase I hear this so often from Protoss players. They worry about all kinds of all-ins and scoutingand, no offense OP, about delaying the Zerg nat and all that shit on D-level. When all they should be worrying about is a clean opening and good midgame macro. What's the point of scouting or "reading" every move of your opponent if you can't outproduce them? Work on that once you are actually able to produce the units to take advantage of the information you scouted.
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Norway28778 Posts
haha if you have 250 apm at d+ ranks then you spam. there's no doubt about that.
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EPT
