EPT[H] Skill gap from D+ to C- - Page 2
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ProoM
Lithuania1741 Posts
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Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
On September 23 2009 16:38 JMave wrote: Hi guys. I've been loafing at D+ ever since I started getting into SC 2 years ago and I've been stuck there ever since. Apart from the occasional cheesy games that I play, I find myself being unable to surpass the D+ ranks. My APM average is around 250, which I feel is sufficient to carry me through to at least a C rank(I doubt that I spam in my games). I was wondering what is the skill gap between a D+ and a C- player. Proper mechanics and a higher level of game sense to scout all-ins and know what is coming is my guess but I've been at this for too long and I need some help. I've just managed to drag myself out of D+ this season, and there isn't any real secret. Just basics. 1) Practiced builds. Pick one standardish build for each matchup and play it every time. You'll run away with a lead over players who don't execute theirs well. 2) Macro. D+ players are sloppy, and often the one that makes more stuff is the one that's going to win. 3) Safe play. Be being greedy, you're probably going to lose a lot of games, and the gains are pretty minimal at this level. Don't play reckless. A rep would be helpful here. | ||
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Catch]22
Sweden2683 Posts
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JMave
Singapore1806 Posts
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JMave
Singapore1806 Posts
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
gAhhahahhA best quote ever | ||
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[DUF]MethodMan
Germany1716 Posts
On September 23 2009 19:07 lazz wrote: learn to read please. i said eapm. effective actions per minute. apm without spamming and redundancy. i just checked and my eapm is around 100-120. so by your logic i should be at C-. seriously, apm doesnt matter shit as long as youre a) protoss and b) not trying to get over b-. edit: maybe the OP should switch to T because hes obviously a much more mechanically oriented player than strategically. learn 2 bos per matchup and how to execute. with 200-250apm it should carry you above D+ easily. | ||
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Shauni
4077 Posts
And to the people talking about good players lowering their apm on purpose to prove that it doesn't matter - It doesn't prove anything... | ||
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Kyo Yuy
United States1286 Posts
On September 23 2009 20:13 Shauni wrote: I don't know how the hell a D+ guy gets 250 apm because apm usually is related with experience. If you're not playing very flimsy 250 apm takes years to build up, that's why people use it as skill measurement. Of course it's wrong in a lot of cases, but if you're really that fast (while knowing what to do) you could just harass while macroing up to win every game at D+ level. But to me it sounds like you don't really know what to do (you built your apm up way too fast) and struggle because of lack of experience. And to the people talking about good players lowering their apm on purpose to prove that it doesn't matter - It doesn't prove anything... I think it has to do with the fact that players want to get good really quickly, and while they can't improve mechanics, game sense, macro, or micro really quickly, they can get their APM really high in only a week or two. Starcraft is a really difficult game, and everybody wants to get really good, really quickly. Nobody wants to take the time and effort to slowly learn to play the game through experience, so they hope that by increasing just their numbers to progamer level, they can therefore be as good as progamers at the game. That's my two cents. D: | ||
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JMave
Singapore1806 Posts
 http://repdepot.net/download.php?type=rep&id=21477&name=FoodlePenguin vs JJ_STL.rep And http://repdepot.net/download.php?type=rep&id=21476&name=courven vs FoodlePenguin.rep I really think that I should have won this one. I mean he was so slip short. Both my DTs got over 60+ added kills of drones and zerglings.. I guess I'm really bad. | ||
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lazz
Australia3119 Posts
On September 23 2009 19:57 [DUF]MethodMan wrote: i just checked and my eapm is around 100-120. so by your logic i should be at C-. seriously, apm doesnt matter shit as long as youre a) protoss and b) not trying to get over b-. edit: maybe the OP should switch to T because hes obviously a much more mechanically oriented player than strategically. learn 2 bos per matchup and how to execute. with 200-250apm it should carry you above D+ easily. if you get 120 eapm as toss there's no doubt in my mind you'll be able to pump out a C- edit: On September 23 2009 20:20 JMave wrote: Okay here are 2 reps then I totally get owned in http://repdepot.net/download.php?type=rep&id=21477&name=FoodlePenguin vs JJ_STL.rep And http://repdepot.net/download.php?type=rep&id=21476&name=courven vs FoodlePenguin.rep I really think that I should have won this one. I mean he was so slip short. Both my DTs got over 60+ added kills of drones and zerglings.. I guess I'm really bad.i watched the second one. that was painful. you canceled not only 1 cannon, but a gateway as well. those 100 minerals are critical in the first few minutes to get your nexus up. imo you should go back to single player and learn your build order.. just watched the PvP as well. first off your build order, again, was really sloppy. you went 2 gate, which happened to be a good thing cos your opponent ended up going 3 gate all-in, however your gas was way way too fucking early. you can't tech, pump probes and pump 2 gates that early in the game all at the same time. if youre going 2 gate before core, delay your gas, instead put it up about 20 seconds before you put up your core. and if you want to play standard pvp go 1 gate zealot before core, it's over all a much safer build than 2 gate before core. like i said you're making really basic mistakes, you should get your hands on a few pro replays of each protoss match up and basically just carbon copy a pro build order in single player until you get it right. then go back to iccup and let you rown style develop after that. GL man | ||
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Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
You have 1000 minerals and 500 gas before 8 minutes. Either throw down a bunch of gates while using gas on templar, or try to take an expasion. 20 minutes in, and you're still on 2 gas against 4. You've floated a lot of minerals that could have been poured into expo/cannons, gates, mass zeals. The only reason the game lasted this long is Zerg had over 5k mins and 2k gas sitting in the bank. By the end, you haven't gotten off 2 bases and Zerg has 6. Poor macro killed you that game. | ||
zatic
Zurich15366 Posts
On September 23 2009 20:31 Dfgj wrote: The only reason the game lasted this long is Zerg had over 5k mins and 2k gas sitting in the bank. By the end, you haven't gotten off 2 bases and Zerg has 6. Poor macro killed you that game. | ||
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JMave
Singapore1806 Posts
If you were wondering why I'm uploading games that I win, its because I'm just trying to show some consistent results to determine what I lack in game, whether mechanical or if my actions are actually spam. | ||
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Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
You cut probes pretty early. Make your pylons earlier and keep probe/goon production up. Your build isn't very good. You made an extremely early robo, but by 7~ minutes you had 1 reaver/shuttle and about 7 goons, with under 60 supply. You can have 10g/2z and 2 reavers in a shuttle pushing out at 8 minutes. Given that you weren't really maximizing 2 gates, a third was unnecessary. Overall: refine your BO and macro as much as possible. | ||
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JMave
Singapore1806 Posts
On September 23 2009 21:13 Dfgj wrote: Third game thoughts: You cut probes pretty early. Make your pylons earlier and keep probe/goon production up. Your build isn't very good. You made an extremely early robo, but by 7~ minutes you had 1 reaver/shuttle and about 7 goons, with under 60 supply. You can have 10g/2z and 2 reavers in a shuttle pushing out at 8 minutes. Given that you weren't really maximizing 2 gates, a third was unnecessary. Overall: refine your BO and macro as much as possible. I adapted this build from Bisu in the IEF tournament game 3. I always saw him go this build so I followed him. Isn't the build correct? Or am I wrong? | ||
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Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
On September 23 2009 21:37 JMave wrote: I adapted this build from Bisu in the IEF tournament game 3. I always saw him go this build so I followed him. Isn't the build correct? Or am I wrong? I could be wrong, but it seemed you had less units than you could have had. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
"Lower level players focus too much on finesse when the most important thing into becoming a better player is learning how to just make a lot of shit." | ||
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Tosu
Bulgaria9 Posts
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jhNz
Germany2762 Posts
On September 23 2009 21:37 JMave wrote: I adapted this build from Bisu in the IEF tournament game 3. I always saw him go this build so I followed him. Isn't the build correct? Or am I wrong? in my opinion copying build orders from pros is the wrong way to become any better. it's like learning a song by heart to play it on the piano without knowing the instrument. you can learn which keys you have to push in a which order that the you hear the song. the song might sound good but as soon someone comes over and says "hey play a different song" you're screwed. because you learned to play the song and not to play the instrument. start learning the instrument instead. this applies to broodwar as well. if you only copy a bo you might snatch some wins with it. but as soon as something goes a different way than the bo is useful for, you lose. i haven't watched the rep though. this is just a reply to this quote. | ||
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