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The Official Fighting Games Topic - Page 8

Forum Index > General Games
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New Updated Fighting Game Thread
Bill307
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
Canada9103 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-09 20:01:58
March 09 2008 19:44 GMT
#141
I just updated the first post with the tier lists for 3s and for AHF. The 3s tier list seems to be from Feb 2008, judging from the "last updated" time of this page:



[image loading]
Bill307
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
Canada9103 Posts
March 09 2008 19:59 GMT
#142
I also found what looks like a list of Fiona's matchups in AHF. It really shows just how imbalanced 3s is in comparison, when the absolute worst character in AHF is about as bad as Ryu in 3s. (Though to be fair, there are only 11 characters in AHF, and there are 9 characters in 3s from Ryu to Yun.)

According to the list, Fiona's matchups, from worst to best, are:
3 : 7 vs Heart* (w/ Lightning)
3.5 : 6.5 vs Kira (w/ Lightning)
4 : 6 vs Saki (w/ Lightning)
4 : 6 vs Kamui* (w/ Dark or Time)
4 : 6 vs Maori (w/ Lightning or Poison(?))
4 : 6 vs Lilica* (w/ Time or Water)
4 : 6 vs Lieselotte** (w/ Lightning)
4.5 : 5.5 vs Konoha (w/ Water)
4.5 : 5.5 vs Mei-Fang* (w/ Water or Dark)
4.5 : 5.5 vs Yoriko (w/ Dark)

* = high tier
** = top tier

Also notice that whereas Ryu's worst matchups are against the best characters and vice-versa, Fiona has a more even distribution.
Bill307
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
Canada9103 Posts
March 09 2008 20:16 GMT
#143
On March 10 2008 03:14 Apa7HY wrote:
John Choi (Old Sagat) vs Alex Valle (Ryu)
+ Show Spoiler [John Choi vs Alex Valle] +



That was an awesome bo5 .

Good crossups and fake crossups from Alex by mixing up the jumping hurricane kick and jumping roundhouse. Seems like the matches start with John playing keep-away and Alex fighting to get in on him, but once John is cornered or Alex has a super, John has to play much more conservatively.
Apa7HY
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
United States125 Posts
March 10 2008 01:38 GMT
#144
On March 10 2008 05:16 Bill307 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 10 2008 03:14 Apa7HY wrote:
John Choi (Old Sagat) vs Alex Valle (Ryu)
+ Show Spoiler [John Choi vs Alex Valle] +

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2R1bvebFk1w

That was an awesome bo5 .

Good crossups and fake crossups from Alex by mixing up the jumping hurricane kick and jumping roundhouse. Seems like the matches start with John playing keep-away and Alex fighting to get in on him, but once John is cornered or Alex has a super, John has to play much more conservatively.


Yeah, that's because O.Sagat's strength lies in his very fast Tiger recovery time, so he can just trap his opponents in the corner with them. Well, not trap per se, but he can make life difficult for his opponents. Up close, O.Sagat does have some devastating attacks, but nothing too fancy, and hardly any combo potential. So it's best if O.Sagat just keeps pounding away with the Tigers while his opponent struggles to get close. O.Sagat also has quite a few options if someone jumps in on him or does a slide... If someone jumps in on him, they risk getting caught by a 25% damage uppercut, and if someone does a slide (i.e.: Dhalsim, DeeJay) he can cr.rh->tiger or tiger uppercut for a neat little combo, since O.Sagat's moves have very high priority.. Very devastating.

Ryu's game is pretty similar...if you can trap your opponent with fireballs, it's pretty wise to do so; however, Ryu's fireballs don't come out as fast as O.Sagat's (the recovery time is several frames longer), so this isn't a viable option vs O.Sagat. Instead Ryu needs to get in close and deliver some combos. In ST, Ryu's st.fierce allows him to move forward rather quickly and get up close to his opponent. Also, jumping hurricane kicks allow him to travel over projectiles safely while building super meter. Speaking of Ryu's super meter, once he has it, yes, Choi has to play very very conservatively because he doesn't know when that super is coming, and if he gets hit with it, he's pretty much finished. So the game changes completely when a player gets their super meter.

Half of the battle vs O.Sagat is getting across the screen to hit him. The other half of the battle is not getting uppercut into oblivion.
섹스섹스보지털
Apa7HY
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
United States125 Posts
March 13 2008 03:00 GMT
#145
No one shares my love for Super Turbo
섹스섹스보지털
Bill307
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
Canada9103 Posts
March 14 2008 06:02 GMT
#146
Actually, it looks like that video you posted got at least 26 views from TLnet. It's just that they all lurk the topic . (Not that I blame anyone, as I lurk a lot of other topics myself <_<;;.)

I put up two more Arcana Heart matches on my Youtube account that I got from Nico Video. Expect more close games and zero-life victories.


AHF - Alan White (Dark SA) vs ?? (Bolt KA)

Here comes Alan with his rushdown and his random Saki air-kick overheads ^^.

+ Show Spoiler [the match] +




AHF - Ass (Poison LIL) vs Kariba (Earth HE)

And here comes Ass with his crazy double-crossups and his dash-in thows, vs Kariba and his dash-in 3[C] (charged launcher/unblockable) moves with Earth super armour.

+ Show Spoiler [the match] +


Bill307
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
Canada9103 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-14 06:05:09
March 14 2008 06:04 GMT
#147
Oh yeah, can't forget about this:


3s - Amir (Chun) vs Victoly (Dudley) and Ed Ma (Ken)

From FFA's 2on2 Team battle, held on March 8th.

+ Show Spoiler [the 2 matches] +


Apa7HY
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
United States125 Posts
March 14 2008 06:52 GMT
#148
If anyone wants to play me on Kaillera, PM me and we'll set something up.

I don't have a stick for PC (or anything else, actually), so it's all keyboard, baby.
섹스섹스보지털
fusionsdf
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada15390 Posts
March 14 2008 06:56 GMT
#149
I use to hate going up against sagat
SKT_Best: "I actually chose Protoss because it was so hard for me to defeat Protoss as a Terran. When I first started Brood War, my main race was Terran."
EscPlan9
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States2777 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-14 11:51:47
March 14 2008 11:49 GMT
#150
FINALLY! Someone posts some SSF2T vids! I was about to say... where's the love for that game???

Too many pages... but this video never gets old. The most famous moment in 3s competition history - I'm sure many of you have seen it plenty of times, Daigo's full parry FTW:



Absolutely sick timing! He was playing Justin Wong, the best US SF3 player (and best MvC player if I remember correctly).

For those who don't know about SF3, parrying is basically a way to block an attack without receiving any damage. To do it you must tap towards the opponent the moment before they hit you - if you tap too early or too late, you get hit. So in this case, Daigo had to tap it in succession with Chun-Li's super, which has a brief pause in between parries. And he does it perfectly.
Undefeated TL Tecmo Super Bowl League Champion
Apa7HY
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
United States125 Posts
March 14 2008 15:30 GMT
#151
On March 14 2008 20:49 EscPlan9 wrote:
Absolutely sick timing! He was playing Justin Wong, the best US SF3 player (and best MvC player if I remember correctly).


Wong is also an accomplished ST, CvS, SFA2, SFA3, and probably any other fighting game ever played at Evo besides SSB, player.
섹스섹스보지털
PePe QuiCoSE
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
Argentina1204 Posts
March 14 2008 15:44 GMT
#152
You know, i find funny that you, EscPlan9, explain what parry is after we had a 60+ pages thread on SF3.
And is JustinWong really the best SF3 USA player at the moment? I'd believe that he was in a moment, but have no idea of the appreciation of USA players right now. In SF3 i only see his name when he gets massively owned :D
fusionsdf
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada15390 Posts
March 14 2008 23:06 GMT
#153
On March 14 2008 20:49 EscPlan9 wrote:
FINALLY! Someone posts some SSF2T vids! I was about to say... where's the love for that game???

Too many pages... but this video never gets old. The most famous moment in 3s competition history - I'm sure many of you have seen it plenty of times, Daigo's full parry FTW:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E2VtVStTSM

Absolutely sick timing! He was playing Justin Wong, the best US SF3 player (and best MvC player if I remember correctly).

For those who don't know about SF3, parrying is basically a way to block an attack without receiving any damage. To do it you must tap towards the opponent the moment before they hit you - if you tap too early or too late, you get hit. So in this case, Daigo had to tap it in succession with Chun-Li's super, which has a brief pause in between parries. And he does it perfectly.


thanks for the explanation

I definitely agree that this is probably the best fighting game moment of all time
SKT_Best: "I actually chose Protoss because it was so hard for me to defeat Protoss as a Terran. When I first started Brood War, my main race was Terran."
Apa7HY
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
United States125 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-15 01:16:35
March 15 2008 01:03 GMT
#154
On March 15 2008 08:06 fusionsdf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2008 20:49 EscPlan9 wrote:
FINALLY! Someone posts some SSF2T vids! I was about to say... where's the love for that game???

Too many pages... but this video never gets old. The most famous moment in 3s competition history - I'm sure many of you have seen it plenty of times, Daigo's full parry FTW:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E2VtVStTSM

Absolutely sick timing! He was playing Justin Wong, the best US SF3 player (and best MvC player if I remember correctly).

For those who don't know about SF3, parrying is basically a way to block an attack without receiving any damage. To do it you must tap towards the opponent the moment before they hit you - if you tap too early or too late, you get hit. So in this case, Daigo had to tap it in succession with Chun-Li's super, which has a brief pause in between parries. And he does it perfectly.


thanks for the explanation

I definitely agree that this is probably the best fighting game moment of all time


There are a lot of great moments in other games too. Like this one, also starring Justin Wong, in MvC2:
+ Show Spoiler [Evolution 2k7 Pro Tip #7: Never give up] +



Oh, and lest I forget this other one:
+ Show Spoiler [Godly MvC2 comeback, also by Justin Wong] +




It seems both Daigo and Justin are getting quite famous for incredible comebacks. Daigo has had quite a few in ST as well...
here's one:
+ Show Spoiler [Evo2k6 Afrolegends vs Daigo] +



Game 1, round 2.

I know the title of the video is "Daigo vs Afrolegends", but Daigo is on the right, playing as Ryu. It's a pretty amazing comeback.

So before you say something is the "greatest fighting game moment of all time," you should look around first The only reason the 3S moment was so big is because 3S is the biggest event at Evo and has the biggest turnout every year...hence the huge crowd.

섹스섹스보지털
myrmidon2537
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Philippines2188 Posts
March 15 2008 02:33 GMT
#155
Yeah, Hayao also did a Chun SA II parry but after parrying the first set he did a 720 super to death.

Pyro has also done the same thing vs AFM then juggled him after the first set of kicks to death =p

Oh and IMO, US' best player for 3s is still Pyrolee (or maybe Amir)
IPT.PromilKid: I'm only good at Marvel
PePe QuiCoSE
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
Argentina1204 Posts
March 15 2008 02:48 GMT
#156
On March 15 2008 10:03 Apa7HY wrote:So before you say something is the "greatest fighting game moment of all time," you should look around first The only reason the 3S moment was so big is because 3S is the biggest event at Evo and has the biggest turnout every year...hence the huge crowd.
Honest to the truth, "greatest" is a vague word that can be looked upon on many different ways, subjective or objective, so IMO it's not worth discussing. And that 3s is the most popular is not just a coincidence, it is a finely polished game were most of the existing concepts of fighting games were applied to it and introduced a dynamic game shift with parry (at least for the Capcom ones, don't know if there was another game with it before, probably).

And "moments" are not a game indicator of quality, but of fun. Sure, in competitive matches the moments come from a show of quality finesse inherent in the game, but quality of a game cannot be shown through them.

Personally, i don't like ST that much because it's a fireball fest (again, for my taste). MvC2 for me is too shiny to take it seriously. And, well, i haven't played that many fighting games though...
Apa7HY
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
United States125 Posts
March 15 2008 03:50 GMT
#157
On March 15 2008 11:48 PePe QuiCoSE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2008 10:03 Apa7HY wrote:So before you say something is the "greatest fighting game moment of all time," you should look around first The only reason the 3S moment was so big is because 3S is the biggest event at Evo and has the biggest turnout every year...hence the huge crowd.
Honest to the truth, "greatest" is a vague word that can be looked upon on many different ways, subjective or objective, so IMO it's not worth discussing. And that 3s is the most popular is not just a coincidence, it is a finely polished game were most of the existing concepts of fighting games were applied to it and introduced a dynamic game shift with parry (at least for the Capcom ones, don't know if there was another game with it before, probably).

And "moments" are not a game indicator of quality, but of fun. Sure, in competitive matches the moments come from a show of quality finesse inherent in the game, but quality of a game cannot be shown through them.

Personally, i don't like ST that much because it's a fireball fest (again, for my taste). MvC2 for me is too shiny to take it seriously. And, well, i haven't played that many fighting games though...

Well, if you had more knowledge about ST or MvC2, you'd probably appreciate those clips a little more. To each his/her own.
섹스섹스보지털
EscPlan9
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States2777 Posts
March 17 2008 01:29 GMT
#158
The Daigo full parry clip against Chun Li is different from the other cases. Many people have said stuff like "it's easy to parry chun-li's super" and blahblah. What they don't get was Daigo's tournament life was on the line in that round and he could not take one single hit. He saw it coming, timed the parries perfectly under the pressure, and finished with a sweet combo.

I don't understand MvC I just see a bunch of people hopping around shooting stuff. I can't follow who is who.
Undefeated TL Tecmo Super Bowl League Champion
EscPlan9
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States2777 Posts
March 17 2008 01:32 GMT
#159
On March 15 2008 00:44 PePe QuiCoSE wrote:
You know, i find funny that you, EscPlan9, explain what parry is after we had a 60+ pages thread on SF3.
And is JustinWong really the best SF3 USA player at the moment? I'd believe that he was in a moment, but have no idea of the appreciation of USA players right now. In SF3 i only see his name when he gets massively owned :D


umm okay? This is a general thread for fighting videos, so people who wouldn't generally watch SF3 might watch the clip here. I don't get the "I find it funny..."

I dunno about at the moment, but he was the best SF3 USA player at that moment - in terms of how well he did in tournaments.
Undefeated TL Tecmo Super Bowl League Champion
Bill307
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
Canada9103 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-17 07:44:02
March 17 2008 07:43 GMT
#160
ROFL, I've gotta show you guys these CvS2 videos on Youtube! They're from "Keystone II". You NEED to watch them with audio, because while a lot of the matches are really good, the commentary is what really makes them outstanding .

Firstly, here's a not-very-detailed explanation of some of the terms and game mechanics in CvS2:

+ Show Spoiler [cvs2 grooves] +

Each player chooses a "groove" for their team. Here's an explanation of some of the most important properties of each groove (or at least, the properties that I still remember ).

C Groove
- Rolling (explained later).
- Alpha counters. This allows you to use 1 level of super to hit your opponent after you block an attack. The attack is very weak, though, so it's usually not worth it.
- Can block in the air. This is the ONLY groove that lets you block in the air (although you can parry or just-defend in the air as well: see below).
- Can use levels 1-3 supers.
- Can cancel out of level 2 supers to use either a level 1 super or a special move.

A Groove
- Rolling.
- Custom combos, like in Alpha 3. You're invincible just after activation. If you get hit even once, your custom combo stops but you get to keep your remaining metre (unlike Genei-Jin in 3s).
- The strongest groove. Some characters can deal ridiculous damage with custom combos, even more than Yun in 3s.

P Groove
- Parrying. Basically the same as in 3s (see EscPlan9's post ), but with stricter timing.
- Level 3 supers only.
- The 2nd-worst groove.

S Groove
- Running (self-explanatory).
- Dodging. Dodging has zero vulnerable frames, meaning you can block immediately after the dodge ends. You can't be hit while dodging, but I think you can still be thrown, so you can't just dodge all match.
- You need to charge your metre using a special charging move.
- With not-low-life, a full metre gives you a level 1 super.
- With low-life (flashing life bar), you can do unlimited level 1 supers,
- Sounds cool in theory, but it's the worst groove .

N Groove
- Rolling.
- Running.
- Alpha counters. Uses 1 stock per counter.
- You can store up to 3 stocks. You can use a stock to power-up, increasing your attack damage for a limited time.
- You can use 1 stock for a level 1 super at any time. If you have already powered-up using 1 stock, then you can use a 2nd stock to do a level 3 super.

K Groove
- Running.
- Just defending, aka JDing. This is somewhat similar to parrying. Instead of pressing forward/down to parry high/low attacks, you press back/down-back to JD high/low attacks. Like parrying, JDing gives you metre. Unlike parrying, JDing an attack usually doesn't allow you to counter-attack. However, JDing an attack prevents you from taking block damage, and it also gives you back a bit of life.
- Once your super metre fills up, you get "raged" and your attack power increases dramatically while your metre counts down. You can also do a level 3 super during this time.


+ Show Spoiler [rolling and roll-cancelling] +

Rolling and roll-cancelling (RCing):
Rolling in CvS2 shares some similarities with rolling in Super Smash Bros. games. You're invincible for most of the roll, but near the end you can be hit by low attacks or thrown before the roll finishes. An important "bug"/"feature" in CvS2 is "roll-cancelling" (RCing). Basically, if you do a roll and then immediately do a special move, your character will do the special move HOWEVER you willl be invincible for part of the special move! So whenever you see a C/A/P groove player do a special move and it passes right through an opponent's attack, it means the special move was RC'd.



And now, the matches:


CvS2 - Keystone II 9-vs-9 Tournament (3-7-08)

These matches (from the 2 vids that I've seen, at least) are both good games and have terrific commentary, on-par with the Denjin Video stuff from FFA .

+ Show Spoiler [the first 3 matches] +

Games 1 and most of 2:


The rest of game 2 and game 3:


(note: at the time of writing, the remaining games have not yet been uploaded )



CvS2 - Keystone II 8-Man Tournament (2-22-08)

I'll embed only the best (imo) videos from this tournament, and link to the rest .

+ Show Spoiler [the matches] +

Part 1:


Part 2 (the best part, imo ^^):


Part 3:


Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
Part 7
Part 8
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