On August 11 2012 18:38 Psychobabas wrote: Multiculturalism has failed in Europe. Just visit London, probably the most multicultural capital in Europe.
You expect to see a harmonious cooexistence of cultures but what you get are completely segregated neighborhoods according to race and ethnicity. The Pakistanis are doing their own thing in east London, the Somalis their own, the Indians their own, the Africans their own, the Arabs their own, the Chinese their own etc etc all with little will to integrate to British culture, nevermind tolerating other cultures.
Some can barely speak a word of English.
It's the way UK deals with multiculturalism. The spirit is "We are all the same, every culture has the right to live how he wants".
It's pretty cool. The problem is that it implies communitarianism. People use to stay with people like them, their food, their place to live, even their school, they language.
More and more people considere themself as paskistans, indians, muslims, etc, forgetting that they are in fact British, a country with a long history and it's own way of life. It's own culture in short that must be respected because it's the culture of most of people.
And i think this is the problem. Nobody say that muslims must become anglicans or eat fish and chips of course, but considering their are British citizen, they should be proud of it FIRST and their other culture should be secondary.
The communitarianism in UK is a very bad thing imho, because a child is grown as a [put your cultur here if it's not british] and he sees the british culture as a foreign culture, and not a big part of his own.
In short cummunitarianism is the ennemy of integration, witch is the ennemy of a wealthy multiculturalism.
On global topic : multiculturalism is not bad. It's just awfully done in western countries.
(PS : Sorry for my bad english, i try to improve, but it's far to be good )
I think thats about right. Take a look at this (I actually bumped to this in a finnish comedy/internet humour site)
They do not see themselves as inhabitants of England. They see themselves as muslim extremist, who have rights to denounce and bash everything that doesn't belong to their culture and religious rules. Ridiculous.
In the beginning the reporter says that the protest is because arrest of a swedish local woman whose husband set a bomb in 2010.
Sad video. People who want sharia law should just be shipped to a country that enforces it. end of story.
People should be forcibly expelled from their homes because of an opinion. What's that called again?
It's actually a good thing from an intellectual standpoint. But you need to treat people in mass as animals. They think with a hive(or community for mammals) mind. Different is considered an outsider and the hive must be protected from outsiders.
On August 11 2012 18:38 Psychobabas wrote: Multiculturalism has failed in Europe. Just visit London, probably the most multicultural capital in Europe.
You expect to see a harmonious cooexistence of cultures but what you get are completely segregated neighborhoods according to race and ethnicity. The Pakistanis are doing their own thing in east London, the Somalis their own, the Indians their own, the Africans their own, the Arabs their own, the Chinese their own etc etc all with little will to integrate to British culture, nevermind tolerating other cultures.
Some can barely speak a word of English.
It's the way UK deals with multiculturalism. The spirit is "We are all the same, every culture has the right to live how he wants".
It's pretty cool. The problem is that it implies communitarianism. People use to stay with people like them, their food, their place to live, even their school, they language.
More and more people considere themself as paskistans, indians, muslims, etc, forgetting that they are in fact British, a country with a long history and it's own way of life. It's own culture in short that must be respected because it's the culture of most of people.
And i think this is the problem. Nobody say that muslims must become anglicans or eat fish and chips of course, but considering their are British citizen, they should be proud of it FIRST and their other culture should be secondary.
The communitarianism in UK is a very bad thing imho, because a child is grown as a [put your cultur here if it's not british] and he sees the british culture as a foreign culture, and not a big part of his own.
In short cummunitarianism is the ennemy of integration, witch is the ennemy of a wealthy multiculturalism.
On global topic : multiculturalism is not bad. It's just awfully done in western countries.
(PS : Sorry for my bad english, i try to improve, but it's far to be good )
I think thats about right. Take a look at this (I actually bumped to this in a finnish comedy/internet humour site)
They do not see themselves as inhabitants of England. They see themselves as muslim extremist, who have rights to denounce and bash everything that doesn't belong to their culture and religious rules. Ridiculous.
In the beginning the reporter says that the protest is because arrest of a swedish local woman whose husband set a bomb in 2010.
Sad video. People who want sharia law should just be shipped to a country that enforces it. end of story.
People should be forcibly expelled from their homes because of an opinion. What's that called again?
That's called making your country a better place.
Some cultures/ideas just really are objectively inferior and make the world a worse place to live in.
Multiculturalism is a thinly veiled divide and conquer strategy. It is promoted by the wealthy and powerful to split the lower classes along racial, religious, and cultural lines.
People who go along with it just because it is couched in sweet sounding lies are useful idiots.
Good Fences: The Importance of Setting Boundaries for Peaceful Coexistence
Our analysis shows that peace does not depend on integrated coexistence, but rather on well defined topographical and political boundaries separating groups.
On August 11 2012 18:38 Psychobabas wrote: Multiculturalism has failed in Europe. Just visit London, probably the most multicultural capital in Europe.
You expect to see a harmonious cooexistence of cultures but what you get are completely segregated neighborhoods according to race and ethnicity. The Pakistanis are doing their own thing in east London, the Somalis their own, the Indians their own, the Africans their own, the Arabs their own, the Chinese their own etc etc all with little will to integrate to British culture, nevermind tolerating other cultures.
Some can barely speak a word of English.
It's the way UK deals with multiculturalism. The spirit is "We are all the same, every culture has the right to live how he wants".
It's pretty cool. The problem is that it implies communitarianism. People use to stay with people like them, their food, their place to live, even their school, they language.
More and more people considere themself as paskistans, indians, muslims, etc, forgetting that they are in fact British, a country with a long history and it's own way of life. It's own culture in short that must be respected because it's the culture of most of people.
And i think this is the problem. Nobody say that muslims must become anglicans or eat fish and chips of course, but considering their are British citizen, they should be proud of it FIRST and their other culture should be secondary.
The communitarianism in UK is a very bad thing imho, because a child is grown as a [put your cultur here if it's not british] and he sees the british culture as a foreign culture, and not a big part of his own.
In short cummunitarianism is the ennemy of integration, witch is the ennemy of a wealthy multiculturalism.
On global topic : multiculturalism is not bad. It's just awfully done in western countries.
(PS : Sorry for my bad english, i try to improve, but it's far to be good )
I think thats about right. Take a look at this (I actually bumped to this in a finnish comedy/internet humour site)
They do not see themselves as inhabitants of England. They see themselves as muslim extremist, who have rights to denounce and bash everything that doesn't belong to their culture and religious rules. Ridiculous.
In the beginning the reporter says that the protest is because arrest of a swedish local woman whose husband set a bomb in 2010.
Sad video. People who want sharia law should just be shipped to a country that enforces it. end of story.
People should be forcibly expelled from their homes because of an opinion. What's that called again?
That's called making your country a better place.
Some cultures/ideas just really are objectively inferior and make the world a worse place to live in.
Well if their home countries won't take them back seeing as how they're naturalized citizens, maybe some ghettos in rural Europe will do, right?
On August 11 2012 18:38 Psychobabas wrote: Multiculturalism has failed in Europe. Just visit London, probably the most multicultural capital in Europe.
You expect to see a harmonious cooexistence of cultures but what you get are completely segregated neighborhoods according to race and ethnicity. The Pakistanis are doing their own thing in east London, the Somalis their own, the Indians their own, the Africans their own, the Arabs their own, the Chinese their own etc etc all with little will to integrate to British culture, nevermind tolerating other cultures.
Some can barely speak a word of English.
It's the way UK deals with multiculturalism. The spirit is "We are all the same, every culture has the right to live how he wants".
It's pretty cool. The problem is that it implies communitarianism. People use to stay with people like them, their food, their place to live, even their school, they language.
More and more people considere themself as paskistans, indians, muslims, etc, forgetting that they are in fact British, a country with a long history and it's own way of life. It's own culture in short that must be respected because it's the culture of most of people.
And i think this is the problem. Nobody say that muslims must become anglicans or eat fish and chips of course, but considering their are British citizen, they should be proud of it FIRST and their other culture should be secondary.
The communitarianism in UK is a very bad thing imho, because a child is grown as a [put your cultur here if it's not british] and he sees the british culture as a foreign culture, and not a big part of his own.
In short cummunitarianism is the ennemy of integration, witch is the ennemy of a wealthy multiculturalism.
On global topic : multiculturalism is not bad. It's just awfully done in western countries.
(PS : Sorry for my bad english, i try to improve, but it's far to be good )
I think thats about right. Take a look at this (I actually bumped to this in a finnish comedy/internet humour site)
They do not see themselves as inhabitants of England. They see themselves as muslim extremist, who have rights to denounce and bash everything that doesn't belong to their culture and religious rules. Ridiculous.
In the beginning the reporter says that the protest is because arrest of a swedish local woman whose husband set a bomb in 2010.
Sad video. People who want sharia law should just be shipped to a country that enforces it. end of story.
People should be forcibly expelled from their homes because of an opinion. What's that called again?
That's called making your country a better place.
Some cultures/ideas just really are objectively inferior and make the world a worse place to live in.
Well if their home countries won't take them back seeing as how they're naturalized citizens, maybe some ghettos in rural Europe will do, right?
Or we just send them to Canada because apparently you people are gifted at making model citizens from barbarians, right?
Should we just slowly let our countries be taken over by extremists? These people don't want to change. They want to come here, live of our socialist policies, invite more relatives over and slowly convert my country into an Islamic state.
And I know full well that there are tons of good foreign people. It's the culture that some have what's wrong, not the place they come from.
On August 11 2012 18:38 Psychobabas wrote: Multiculturalism has failed in Europe. Just visit London, probably the most multicultural capital in Europe.
You expect to see a harmonious cooexistence of cultures but what you get are completely segregated neighborhoods according to race and ethnicity. The Pakistanis are doing their own thing in east London, the Somalis their own, the Indians their own, the Africans their own, the Arabs their own, the Chinese their own etc etc all with little will to integrate to British culture, nevermind tolerating other cultures.
Some can barely speak a word of English.
It's the way UK deals with multiculturalism. The spirit is "We are all the same, every culture has the right to live how he wants".
It's pretty cool. The problem is that it implies communitarianism. People use to stay with people like them, their food, their place to live, even their school, they language.
More and more people considere themself as paskistans, indians, muslims, etc, forgetting that they are in fact British, a country with a long history and it's own way of life. It's own culture in short that must be respected because it's the culture of most of people.
And i think this is the problem. Nobody say that muslims must become anglicans or eat fish and chips of course, but considering their are British citizen, they should be proud of it FIRST and their other culture should be secondary.
The communitarianism in UK is a very bad thing imho, because a child is grown as a [put your cultur here if it's not british] and he sees the british culture as a foreign culture, and not a big part of his own.
In short cummunitarianism is the ennemy of integration, witch is the ennemy of a wealthy multiculturalism.
On global topic : multiculturalism is not bad. It's just awfully done in western countries.
(PS : Sorry for my bad english, i try to improve, but it's far to be good )
I think thats about right. Take a look at this (I actually bumped to this in a finnish comedy/internet humour site)
They do not see themselves as inhabitants of England. They see themselves as muslim extremist, who have rights to denounce and bash everything that doesn't belong to their culture and religious rules. Ridiculous.
In the beginning the reporter says that the protest is because arrest of a swedish local woman whose husband set a bomb in 2010.
Sad video. People who want sharia law should just be shipped to a country that enforces it. end of story.
People should be forcibly expelled from their homes because of an opinion. What's that called again?
That's called making your country a better place.
Some cultures/ideas just really are objectively inferior and make the world a worse place to live in.
Well if their home countries won't take them back seeing as how they're naturalized citizens, maybe some ghettos in rural Europe will do, right?
Or we just send them to Canada because apparently you people are gifted at making model citizens from barbarians, right?
Should we just slowly let our countries be taken over by extremists? These people don't want to change. They want to come here, live of our socialist policies, invite more relatives over and slowly convert my country into an Islamic state.
Circular logic that freedoms your countries allow are the very things that will effectuate abolishment of those freedoms. Show me some actual evidence of the impending doom that is Sharia law (not something like a youtube video by some clueless hack) and I'll stop condescending to your laughable, fascist beliefs.
On August 11 2012 18:38 Psychobabas wrote: Multiculturalism has failed in Europe. Just visit London, probably the most multicultural capital in Europe.
You expect to see a harmonious cooexistence of cultures but what you get are completely segregated neighborhoods according to race and ethnicity. The Pakistanis are doing their own thing in east London, the Somalis their own, the Indians their own, the Africans their own, the Arabs their own, the Chinese their own etc etc all with little will to integrate to British culture, nevermind tolerating other cultures.
Some can barely speak a word of English.
It's the way UK deals with multiculturalism. The spirit is "We are all the same, every culture has the right to live how he wants".
It's pretty cool. The problem is that it implies communitarianism. People use to stay with people like them, their food, their place to live, even their school, they language.
More and more people considere themself as paskistans, indians, muslims, etc, forgetting that they are in fact British, a country with a long history and it's own way of life. It's own culture in short that must be respected because it's the culture of most of people.
And i think this is the problem. Nobody say that muslims must become anglicans or eat fish and chips of course, but considering their are British citizen, they should be proud of it FIRST and their other culture should be secondary.
The communitarianism in UK is a very bad thing imho, because a child is grown as a [put your cultur here if it's not british] and he sees the british culture as a foreign culture, and not a big part of his own.
In short cummunitarianism is the ennemy of integration, witch is the ennemy of a wealthy multiculturalism.
On global topic : multiculturalism is not bad. It's just awfully done in western countries.
(PS : Sorry for my bad english, i try to improve, but it's far to be good )
I think thats about right. Take a look at this (I actually bumped to this in a finnish comedy/internet humour site)
They do not see themselves as inhabitants of England. They see themselves as muslim extremist, who have rights to denounce and bash everything that doesn't belong to their culture and religious rules. Ridiculous.
In the beginning the reporter says that the protest is because arrest of a swedish local woman whose husband set a bomb in 2010.
Sad video. People who want sharia law should just be shipped to a country that enforces it. end of story.
People should be forcibly expelled from their homes because of an opinion. What's that called again?
On August 11 2012 18:38 Psychobabas wrote: Multiculturalism has failed in Europe. Just visit London, probably the most multicultural capital in Europe.
You expect to see a harmonious cooexistence of cultures but what you get are completely segregated neighborhoods according to race and ethnicity. The Pakistanis are doing their own thing in east London, the Somalis their own, the Indians their own, the Africans their own, the Arabs their own, the Chinese their own etc etc all with little will to integrate to British culture, nevermind tolerating other cultures.
Some can barely speak a word of English.
It's the way UK deals with multiculturalism. The spirit is "We are all the same, every culture has the right to live how he wants".
It's pretty cool. The problem is that it implies communitarianism. People use to stay with people like them, their food, their place to live, even their school, they language.
More and more people considere themself as paskistans, indians, muslims, etc, forgetting that they are in fact British, a country with a long history and it's own way of life. It's own culture in short that must be respected because it's the culture of most of people.
And i think this is the problem. Nobody say that muslims must become anglicans or eat fish and chips of course, but considering their are British citizen, they should be proud of it FIRST and their other culture should be secondary.
The communitarianism in UK is a very bad thing imho, because a child is grown as a [put your cultur here if it's not british] and he sees the british culture as a foreign culture, and not a big part of his own.
In short cummunitarianism is the ennemy of integration, witch is the ennemy of a wealthy multiculturalism.
On global topic : multiculturalism is not bad. It's just awfully done in western countries.
(PS : Sorry for my bad english, i try to improve, but it's far to be good )
I think thats about right. Take a look at this (I actually bumped to this in a finnish comedy/internet humour site)
They do not see themselves as inhabitants of England. They see themselves as muslim extremist, who have rights to denounce and bash everything that doesn't belong to their culture and religious rules. Ridiculous.
In the beginning the reporter says that the protest is because arrest of a swedish local woman whose husband set a bomb in 2010.
Sad video. People who want sharia law should just be shipped to a country that enforces it. end of story.
People should be forcibly expelled from their homes because of an opinion. What's that called again?
Sharia Law.
Zing!
Which I would wholeheartedly oppose if it were an actual threat. Hence the hypocrisy of his post.
edit: to be clear, I already oppose sharia law, but by oppose I meant actually do something. As of now, there's not much to be done other than point out how stupid it is if people raise the subject to me (which has never happened outside of the internet). And there almost definitely never will be, despite the fearmongering idiocy you might read in this thread.
On August 11 2012 22:23 GenghisKhan wrote: Multiculuralism will only work when it's no longer seen as multiculturalism; it will only work when all those component cultures see themselves as part of the one culture, rather than part of their original cultures. In saying this, I'm not advocating that everyone joining a larger culture should forget their heritage and take on that culture's aspects, but more that the said culture should be one which has taken on all of the positives of the original cultures (And hopefully cut out many of the negatives, such as harmful traditions), and yet can call those positives its own.
Canada is somewhat of a testing ground for multiculturalism, and I'm amazed things go as smoothly as they do here. Racial hate crimes are practically non-existent, in fact racism of any kind is astonishingly rare.
Canadian's just have a positive and accepting attitude. Sure, immigrants land and form their own communities, but their children attend the same public schools, play on the same sports teams and form friendships with Canadian's of all backgrounds. We don't force immigrants to become Canadian, we just show them what is so great about this place without arrogance and they find themselves becoming more like us, with their own unique culture strengthening the whole.
Going to a hockey game in Canada these days is fantastic. You will see people from literally everywhere on earth gathered together, drinking their favourite beer, doing what Canadian's do best. It's a beautiful thing.
On August 11 2012 18:38 Psychobabas wrote: Multiculturalism has failed in Europe. Just visit London, probably the most multicultural capital in Europe.
You expect to see a harmonious cooexistence of cultures but what you get are completely segregated neighborhoods according to race and ethnicity. The Pakistanis are doing their own thing in east London, the Somalis their own, the Indians their own, the Africans their own, the Arabs their own, the Chinese their own etc etc all with little will to integrate to British culture, nevermind tolerating other cultures.
Some can barely speak a word of English.
It's the way UK deals with multiculturalism. The spirit is "We are all the same, every culture has the right to live how he wants".
It's pretty cool. The problem is that it implies communitarianism. People use to stay with people like them, their food, their place to live, even their school, they language.
More and more people considere themself as paskistans, indians, muslims, etc, forgetting that they are in fact British, a country with a long history and it's own way of life. It's own culture in short that must be respected because it's the culture of most of people.
And i think this is the problem. Nobody say that muslims must become anglicans or eat fish and chips of course, but considering their are British citizen, they should be proud of it FIRST and their other culture should be secondary.
The communitarianism in UK is a very bad thing imho, because a child is grown as a [put your cultur here if it's not british] and he sees the british culture as a foreign culture, and not a big part of his own.
In short cummunitarianism is the ennemy of integration, witch is the ennemy of a wealthy multiculturalism.
On global topic : multiculturalism is not bad. It's just awfully done in western countries.
(PS : Sorry for my bad english, i try to improve, but it's far to be good )
I think thats about right. Take a look at this (I actually bumped to this in a finnish comedy/internet humour site)
They do not see themselves as inhabitants of England. They see themselves as muslim extremist, who have rights to denounce and bash everything that doesn't belong to their culture and religious rules. Ridiculous.
In the beginning the reporter says that the protest is because arrest of a swedish local woman whose husband set a bomb in 2010.
Sad video. People who want sharia law should just be shipped to a country that enforces it. end of story.
People should be forcibly expelled from their homes because of an opinion. What's that called again?
Sharia Law.
Zing!
Which I would wholeheartedly oppose if it were an actual threat. Hence the hypocrisy of his post. edit: to be clear, I already oppose sharia law, but by oppose I meant actually do something. As of now, there's not much to be done other than point out how stupid it is if people raise the subject to me (which has never happened outside of the internet).
Was Nazism an actual threat in 1925?
The fact that something is dangerous in it's current state does not mean that it won't be dangerous in the future.
On August 11 2012 18:38 Psychobabas wrote: Multiculturalism has failed in Europe. Just visit London, probably the most multicultural capital in Europe.
You expect to see a harmonious cooexistence of cultures but what you get are completely segregated neighborhoods according to race and ethnicity. The Pakistanis are doing their own thing in east London, the Somalis their own, the Indians their own, the Africans their own, the Arabs their own, the Chinese their own etc etc all with little will to integrate to British culture, nevermind tolerating other cultures.
Some can barely speak a word of English.
It's the way UK deals with multiculturalism. The spirit is "We are all the same, every culture has the right to live how he wants".
It's pretty cool. The problem is that it implies communitarianism. People use to stay with people like them, their food, their place to live, even their school, they language.
More and more people considere themself as paskistans, indians, muslims, etc, forgetting that they are in fact British, a country with a long history and it's own way of life. It's own culture in short that must be respected because it's the culture of most of people.
And i think this is the problem. Nobody say that muslims must become anglicans or eat fish and chips of course, but considering their are British citizen, they should be proud of it FIRST and their other culture should be secondary.
The communitarianism in UK is a very bad thing imho, because a child is grown as a [put your cultur here if it's not british] and he sees the british culture as a foreign culture, and not a big part of his own.
In short cummunitarianism is the ennemy of integration, witch is the ennemy of a wealthy multiculturalism.
On global topic : multiculturalism is not bad. It's just awfully done in western countries.
(PS : Sorry for my bad english, i try to improve, but it's far to be good )
I think thats about right. Take a look at this (I actually bumped to this in a finnish comedy/internet humour site)
They do not see themselves as inhabitants of England. They see themselves as muslim extremist, who have rights to denounce and bash everything that doesn't belong to their culture and religious rules. Ridiculous.
In the beginning the reporter says that the protest is because arrest of a swedish local woman whose husband set a bomb in 2010.
Sad video. People who want sharia law should just be shipped to a country that enforces it. end of story.
People should be forcibly expelled from their homes because of an opinion. What's that called again?
Sharia Law.
Zing!
Which I would wholeheartedly oppose if it were an actual threat. Hence the hypocrisy of his post. edit: to be clear, I already oppose sharia law, but by oppose I meant actually do something. As of now, there's not much to be done other than point out how stupid it is if people raise the subject to me (which has never happened outside of the internet).
Was Nazism an actual threat in 1925?
The fact that something is dangerous in it's current state does not mean that it won't be dangerous in the future.
Slippery slope fallacy. Please present actual evidence that this whole European Islamist movement has anywhere near the level of support of Nazism in the 1920s or that the two movements are similar in any way that is not entirely superficial or preposterous. Or that the socioeconomic circumstances are identical and can thus be used to infer causation. By your logic, Palestine will be obliterated by Israel in a few decades.
On August 11 2012 22:23 GenghisKhan wrote: Multiculuralism will only work when it's no longer seen as multiculturalism; it will only work when all those component cultures see themselves as part of the one culture, rather than part of their original cultures. In saying this, I'm not advocating that everyone joining a larger culture should forget their heritage and take on that culture's aspects, but more that the said culture should be one which has taken on all of the positives of the original cultures (And hopefully cut out many of the negatives, such as harmful traditions), and yet can call those positives its own.
Canada is somewhat of a testing ground for multiculturalism, and I'm amazed things go as smoothly as they do here. Racial hate crimes are practically non-existent, in fact racism of any kind is astonishingly rare.
Canadian's just have a positive and accepting attitude. Sure, immigrants land and form their own communities, but their children attend the same public schools, play on the same sports teams and form friendships with Canadian's of all backgrounds. We don't force immigrants to become Canadian, we just show them what is so great about this place without arrogance and they find themselves becoming more like us, with their own unique culture strengthening the whole.
Going to a hockey game in Canada these days is fantastic. You will see people from literally everywhere on earth gathered together, drinking their favourite beer, doing what Canadian's do best. It's a beautiful thing.
That's fantastic! It's just a shame the rest of the world isn't a magical place where everyone dances together on the grass with rainbows in the blue sky.
Show me some actual evidence of the impending doom that is Sharia law (not something like a youtube video by some clueless hack) and I'll stop condescending to your laughable, fascist beliefs.
Yes, it's fascist wanting to protect the world from Sharia law. Unless you live in Europe, why do you even pretend to know how it works here?
Slippery slope fallacy. Please Present actual evidence that this whole European Islamist movement has anywhere near the level of support of Nazism or that the two movements are similar in any way that is not entirely superficial or preposterous. By your logic, Palestine will be obliterated by Israel in a few decades.
Seeing entire parts of cities slowly become worse and worse over the years means nothing, right? Hearing weekly about incidents where women in public are yelled at, spat on or worse just because they don't conform to Islamic standards is okay, right? Having gay couples bullied into moving by young muslims isn't worrying, right?
On August 11 2012 22:23 GenghisKhan wrote: Multiculuralism will only work when it's no longer seen as multiculturalism; it will only work when all those component cultures see themselves as part of the one culture, rather than part of their original cultures. In saying this, I'm not advocating that everyone joining a larger culture should forget their heritage and take on that culture's aspects, but more that the said culture should be one which has taken on all of the positives of the original cultures (And hopefully cut out many of the negatives, such as harmful traditions), and yet can call those positives its own.
Canada is somewhat of a testing ground for multiculturalism, and I'm amazed things go as smoothly as they do here. Racial hate crimes are practically non-existent, in fact racism of any kind is astonishingly rare.
Canadian's just have a positive and accepting attitude. Sure, immigrants land and form their own communities, but their children attend the same public schools, play on the same sports teams and form friendships with Canadian's of all backgrounds. We don't force immigrants to become Canadian, we just show them what is so great about this place without arrogance and they find themselves becoming more like us, with their own unique culture strengthening the whole.
Going to a hockey game in Canada these days is fantastic. You will see people from literally everywhere on earth gathered together, drinking their favourite beer, doing what Canadian's do best. It's a beautiful thing.
That's fantastic! It's just a shame the rest of the world isn't a magical place where everyone dances together on the grass with rainbows in the blue sky.
Show me some actual evidence of the impending doom that is Sharia law (not something like a youtube video by some clueless hack) and I'll stop condescending to your laughable, fascist beliefs.
Yes, it's fascist wanting to protect the world from Sharia law. Unless you live in Europe, why do you even pretend to know how it works here?
Slippery slope fallacy. Please Present actual evidence that this whole European Islamist movement has anywhere near the level of support of Nazism or that the two movements are similar in any way that is not entirely superficial or preposterous. By your logic, Palestine will be obliterated by Israel in a few decades.
Seeing entire parts of cities slowly become worse and worse over the years means nothing, right?
If living in a place makes you an expert, we don't ever need to refer to empirical evidence. After all, conjectural evidence is just as valid right? You're just pwning yourself harder with every post.
edit: Please present the evidence of deteriorating cities as well as the clear causal link between that and the actions of dudes who believe in Mohammed and Allah.
edit: or the link between economic/social deterioration and this "inferior culture" you speak of.
On August 11 2012 18:38 Psychobabas wrote: Multiculturalism has failed in Europe. Just visit London, probably the most multicultural capital in Europe.
You expect to see a harmonious cooexistence of cultures but what you get are completely segregated neighborhoods according to race and ethnicity. The Pakistanis are doing their own thing in east London, the Somalis their own, the Indians their own, the Africans their own, the Arabs their own, the Chinese their own etc etc all with little will to integrate to British culture, nevermind tolerating other cultures.
Some can barely speak a word of English.
It's the way UK deals with multiculturalism. The spirit is "We are all the same, every culture has the right to live how he wants".
It's pretty cool. The problem is that it implies communitarianism. People use to stay with people like them, their food, their place to live, even their school, they language.
More and more people considere themself as paskistans, indians, muslims, etc, forgetting that they are in fact British, a country with a long history and it's own way of life. It's own culture in short that must be respected because it's the culture of most of people.
And i think this is the problem. Nobody say that muslims must become anglicans or eat fish and chips of course, but considering their are British citizen, they should be proud of it FIRST and their other culture should be secondary.
The communitarianism in UK is a very bad thing imho, because a child is grown as a [put your cultur here if it's not british] and he sees the british culture as a foreign culture, and not a big part of his own.
In short cummunitarianism is the ennemy of integration, witch is the ennemy of a wealthy multiculturalism.
On global topic : multiculturalism is not bad. It's just awfully done in western countries.
(PS : Sorry for my bad english, i try to improve, but it's far to be good )
I think thats about right. Take a look at this (I actually bumped to this in a finnish comedy/internet humour site)
They do not see themselves as inhabitants of England. They see themselves as muslim extremist, who have rights to denounce and bash everything that doesn't belong to their culture and religious rules. Ridiculous.
In the beginning the reporter says that the protest is because arrest of a swedish local woman whose husband set a bomb in 2010.
Sad video. People who want sharia law should just be shipped to a country that enforces it. end of story.
People should be forcibly expelled from their homes because of an opinion. What's that called again?
That's called making your country a better place.
Some cultures/ideas just really are objectively inferior and make the world a worse place to live in.
Well if their home countries won't take them back seeing as how they're naturalized citizens, maybe some ghettos in rural Europe will do, right?
Or we just send them to Canada because apparently you people are gifted at making model citizens from barbarians, right?
Should we just slowly let our countries be taken over by extremis? These people don't want to change. They want to come here, live of our socialist policies, invite more relatives over and slowly convert my country into an Islamic state.
And I know full well that there are tons of good foreign people. It's the culture that some have what's wrong, not the place they come from.
Do you really think that's what in the head of the average Muslim joe ? Leaving in a shitty ghetto and trying to subjugate your country rather than marrying the girl he loves, having a good job, some kids and a house ?
I know Muslims are on average more devote than Christians, and I also know that some European country recieves a lot of middle-eastern muslims whom are far more radical than the North africans, but really, don't be delusionned. On one hand, there is a huge proportion of Muslims in Europe who deserve a kick in the ass because they're criminals and delinquents who don't respect the country in which they or their parents emigrate to, but on the other, this has nothing to do with the core values of Islam. Islam doesn't absolve rapes, thefts, and mindless agressions. Your leftist politicians do.
Still, I acknowledge that there might be some clash between Europe and Islam since it is a foreign religion, but these issues are grossly overexagerated by the mass media propaganda.
On August 11 2012 18:38 Psychobabas wrote: Multiculturalism has failed in Europe. Just visit London, probably the most multicultural capital in Europe.
You expect to see a harmonious cooexistence of cultures but what you get are completely segregated neighborhoods according to race and ethnicity. The Pakistanis are doing their own thing in east London, the Somalis their own, the Indians their own, the Africans their own, the Arabs their own, the Chinese their own etc etc all with little will to integrate to British culture, nevermind tolerating other cultures.
Some can barely speak a word of English.
It's the way UK deals with multiculturalism. The spirit is "We are all the same, every culture has the right to live how he wants".
It's pretty cool. The problem is that it implies communitarianism. People use to stay with people like them, their food, their place to live, even their school, they language.
More and more people considere themself as paskistans, indians, muslims, etc, forgetting that they are in fact British, a country with a long history and it's own way of life. It's own culture in short that must be respected because it's the culture of most of people.
And i think this is the problem. Nobody say that muslims must become anglicans or eat fish and chips of course, but considering their are British citizen, they should be proud of it FIRST and their other culture should be secondary.
The communitarianism in UK is a very bad thing imho, because a child is grown as a [put your cultur here if it's not british] and he sees the british culture as a foreign culture, and not a big part of his own.
In short cummunitarianism is the ennemy of integration, witch is the ennemy of a wealthy multiculturalism.
On global topic : multiculturalism is not bad. It's just awfully done in western countries.
(PS : Sorry for my bad english, i try to improve, but it's far to be good )
I think thats about right. Take a look at this (I actually bumped to this in a finnish comedy/internet humour site)
They do not see themselves as inhabitants of England. They see themselves as muslim extremist, who have rights to denounce and bash everything that doesn't belong to their culture and religious rules. Ridiculous.
In the beginning the reporter says that the protest is because arrest of a swedish local woman whose husband set a bomb in 2010.
Sad video. People who want sharia law should just be shipped to a country that enforces it. end of story.
People should be forcibly expelled from their homes because of an opinion. What's that called again?
That's called making your country a better place.
Some cultures/ideas just really are objectively inferior and make the world a worse place to live in.
Well if their home countries won't take them back seeing as how they're naturalized citizens, maybe some ghettos in rural Europe will do, right?
Or we just send them to Canada because apparently you people are gifted at making model citizens from barbarians, right?
Should we just slowly let our countries be taken over by extremis? These people don't want to change. They want to come here, live of our socialist policies, invite more relatives over and slowly convert my country into an Islamic state.
And I know full well that there are tons of good foreign people. It's the culture that some have what's wrong, not the place they come from.
Do you really think that's what in the head of the average Muslim joe ? Leaving in a shitty ghetto and trying to subjugate your country rather than marrying the girl he loves, having a good job, some kids and a house ?
I know Muslims are on average more devote than Christians, and I also know that some European country recieves a lot of middle-eastern muslims whom are far more radical than the North africans, but really, don't be delusionned. On one hand, there is a huge proportion of Muslims in Europe who deserve a kick in the ass because they're criminals and delinquents who don't respect the country in which they or their parents emigrate to, but on the other, this has nothing to do with the core values of Islam. Islam doesn't absolve rapes, thefts, and mindless agressions. Your leftist politicians do.
Still, I acknowledge that there might be some clash between Europe and Islam since it is a foreign religion, but these issues are grossly overexagerated by the mass media propaganda.
I know the Islam isn't inherently bad, it's what the people make of it what's bad. The culture of those people is bad, even if the things they practice aren't based on the Quran.
On August 11 2012 22:23 GenghisKhan wrote: Multiculuralism will only work when it's no longer seen as multiculturalism; it will only work when all those component cultures see themselves as part of the one culture, rather than part of their original cultures. In saying this, I'm not advocating that everyone joining a larger culture should forget their heritage and take on that culture's aspects, but more that the said culture should be one which has taken on all of the positives of the original cultures (And hopefully cut out many of the negatives, such as harmful traditions), and yet can call those positives its own.
Canada is somewhat of a testing ground for multiculturalism, and I'm amazed things go as smoothly as they do here. Racial hate crimes are practically non-existent, in fact racism of any kind is astonishingly rare.
Canadian's just have a positive and accepting attitude. Sure, immigrants land and form their own communities, but their children attend the same public schools, play on the same sports teams and form friendships with Canadian's of all backgrounds. We don't force immigrants to become Canadian, we just show them what is so great about this place without arrogance and they find themselves becoming more like us, with their own unique culture strengthening the whole.
Going to a hockey game in Canada these days is fantastic. You will see people from literally everywhere on earth gathered together, drinking their favourite beer, doing what Canadian's do best. It's a beautiful thing.
That's fantastic! It's just a shame the rest of the world isn't a magical place where everyone dances together on the grass with rainbows in the blue sky.
Isn't that the literal definition of the Netherlands?
On August 11 2012 18:38 Psychobabas wrote: Multiculturalism has failed in Europe. Just visit London, probably the most multicultural capital in Europe.
You expect to see a harmonious cooexistence of cultures but what you get are completely segregated neighborhoods according to race and ethnicity. The Pakistanis are doing their own thing in east London, the Somalis their own, the Indians their own, the Africans their own, the Arabs their own, the Chinese their own etc etc all with little will to integrate to British culture, nevermind tolerating other cultures.
Some can barely speak a word of English.
It's the way UK deals with multiculturalism. The spirit is "We are all the same, every culture has the right to live how he wants".
It's pretty cool. The problem is that it implies communitarianism. People use to stay with people like them, their food, their place to live, even their school, they language.
More and more people considere themself as paskistans, indians, muslims, etc, forgetting that they are in fact British, a country with a long history and it's own way of life. It's own culture in short that must be respected because it's the culture of most of people.
And i think this is the problem. Nobody say that muslims must become anglicans or eat fish and chips of course, but considering their are British citizen, they should be proud of it FIRST and their other culture should be secondary.
The communitarianism in UK is a very bad thing imho, because a child is grown as a [put your cultur here if it's not british] and he sees the british culture as a foreign culture, and not a big part of his own.
In short cummunitarianism is the ennemy of integration, witch is the ennemy of a wealthy multiculturalism.
On global topic : multiculturalism is not bad. It's just awfully done in western countries.
(PS : Sorry for my bad english, i try to improve, but it's far to be good )
I think thats about right. Take a look at this (I actually bumped to this in a finnish comedy/internet humour site)
They do not see themselves as inhabitants of England. They see themselves as muslim extremist, who have rights to denounce and bash everything that doesn't belong to their culture and religious rules. Ridiculous.
In the beginning the reporter says that the protest is because arrest of a swedish local woman whose husband set a bomb in 2010.
Sad video. People who want sharia law should just be shipped to a country that enforces it. end of story.
People should be forcibly expelled from their homes because of an opinion. What's that called again?
Sharia Law.
Zing!
Which I would wholeheartedly oppose if it were an actual threat. Hence the hypocrisy of his post. edit: to be clear, I already oppose sharia law, but by oppose I meant actually do something. As of now, there's not much to be done other than point out how stupid it is if people raise the subject to me (which has never happened outside of the internet).
Was Nazism an actual threat in 1925?
The fact that something is dangerous in it's current state does not mean that it won't be dangerous in the future.
Slippery slope fallacy. Please Present actual evidence that this whole European Islamist movement has anywhere near the level of support of Nazism in the 1920s or that the two movements are similar in any way that is not entirely superficial or preposterous. Or that the socioeconomic circumstances are identical and can thus be used to infer causation. By your logic, Palestine will be obliterated by Israel in a few decades.
Nope, by my logic, Israel will be destroyed in a few decades, due to differences between the groups (Ashkenazi jews, Spharadi jews, Arabs, Orthodox jews, mildly religous jews) in Israel + The financial turmoil that is about to hit Israel due to the recession that's going to happen in Europe/USA.
It's interesting to see the juxtaposition of individuals in the Cultural Mosiac camp versus those that favour the Melting Pot theory, where a heterogenous society becomes more and more homogenous - basically assimilated into the main culture.
In Canada, the goal is to build a multi-cultural society where everyone's religious/personal beliefs are free. That is as long as you Obey the Law of the land, which means discrimination/hate on the basis of religion or other beliefs is by no means accepted. Whether or not the system works really depends on your perspective. But in my opinion, it's doing fine.
This is an interesting case of cultural clash. http://gawker.com/walt-wawra/ An US officer visiting Calgary was approached by 2 men asking if he went to the "Calgary Stampede" yet. The officer thought he was being threatened. He "got out" of the situation safely, thanked god and thought about why he wasn't allowed to carry a gun in Canada. Reports later noted that the 2 men were actually Calgary Stampede promoters offering free tickets. Now this isn't a debate about gun control. But it shows the cultural differences between Canada/US. Additional Note: This was a man that had been an officer of over 20 years, and he wasn't able to assess the situation properly. We only know of this account because he wrote a personal letter to the Calgary news letter, noting how he got out of what he presumed was a dangerous situation.
Does the Cultural Mosiac theory work? It depends if individuals from other countries come into the Host country with intentions to follow their own personal beliefs when it infringes the Host country's law.
EPT
)
