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Bahamut1337
Ghana205 Posts
On August 11 2012 20:15 Euronyme wrote: Sounds rather segregated to me. Segregation =/= multiculturalism. I could name dozens of majority white low income area's where they could live, but they do not. Its self imposed segregation at best, nothing the goverment can do about that. The results should even be clear in political correct sweden. | ||
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SiroKO
France721 Posts
Denouncing multiculturalism is kind of easy. But denouncing the powerful people having promoted it, who keep promiting it today, and the reasons why they did it requires true courage. Any journalist citing names would get instantly banned of all media corporations. See Rick Sanchez example. Thing I personally hate the most about multiculturalism is that the ones who preached it the most at first (Jews) are the ones who in reality actually practice it the less. | ||
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Bahamut1337
Ghana205 Posts
On August 11 2012 20:24 SiroKO wrote: Denouncing multiculturalism is kind of easy. But denouncing the powerful people having promoted it, who keep promiting it today, and the reasons why they did it requires true courage. Any journalist citing names would get instantly banned of all media corporations. Thing I personally hate the most about multiculturalism is that the ones who preached it the most at first (Jews) are the ones who in reality actually practice it the less. Israel is a hugely diverse state with North Africans Europeans Ethiopians Africans and South-East Asians, not to mention with a vast array of different religions. It were the companies that wanted gues workers, but it was the Socialist left which decided they should all stay and leech the system to a near death. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4329 Posts
On August 11 2012 19:15 Spidinko wrote: His point being, 72% of ~3 million muslims is a hell of a lot of people integrating into society.... Who's to say that the other minority can't be integrated later on, or perhaps their children? Well your profile states you live in Slovakia so i doubt you have much first hand knowledge of this type of thing but as has been said many times these immigrants move mostly into slums in East London , Manchester and Birmingham.White people started moving out of these areas in the 80s and are under 50% in most of these ghettos by now. I see these areas becoming less integrated as the percentage of muslims increases and these people feel more secure practising their own customs as opposed to the customs of the rest of the country this will inevitably lead to more conflict and a possible civil war in the future. Note that i don't have a problem with them practising these beliefs in their own countries - Afghanistan , Iran or whatever i just worry that the strides we have made in equality of women , homosexuals and other groups will be eroded by this extremist religion.If we weren't bombing their countries maybe not so many would be coming in the first place but thats another topic altogether.... | ||
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SiroKO
France721 Posts
On August 11 2012 20:28 Bahamut1337 wrote: Israel is a hugely diverse state with North Africans Europeans Ethiopians Africans and South-East Asians, not to mention with a vast array of different religions. It were the companies that wanted gues workers, but it was the Socialist left which decided they should all stay and leech the system to a near death. "The companies" don't mean shit also. They're names, people, lobbies, interests behind these abstract entities. | ||
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Bahamut1337
Ghana205 Posts
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Euronyme
Sweden3804 Posts
On August 11 2012 19:58 Sepi wrote: I'm kinda disgusted about the people who just come to the country and leech ALL out of the social security system. There have been SO many cases in my country where people lie to the government, mainly about their childs and heatl condition etc. to get max support from the governemnt. We as tax payers must pay this all. And they still complain how they have just 60 square meter house FOR FREE. Its ridiculous. Luckily there is a counterweight to this immigration, because there are a lot good people. Who acts just like us, does work and tries to proceed in their career. I higlhy respect these people as they can ADAPT to other enviroment and work their hart out to have what they deserve. Even all the sexual crimes are mostly committed by immigrates. The studies that i have read, also indicate that its HIGHLY possible that they will continue to commit crimes. In my law system there is no way to kick any people out. They just get 1-2 years of probation and something like 1000 euros of indemnity or something like that. Im no racist at all, but it just makes me sick how they can be so abusive, and yet so arrogant. Wow really? Do you actually live in Finland? Holy shit that's just sad. You're famous for having one of the most racist social policies, and one of the absolute smallest immigration rates in all of Europe, and yet you complain there's too much? You have 150k immigrants and children of immigrants total, which equals a 2% of the population. Don't you have more serious issues than that? Alcoholism for instance? I seem to recall that just about every hobo in Sweden speaks with a Finnish accent. | ||
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zalz
Netherlands3704 Posts
On August 11 2012 20:47 Euronyme wrote: Wow really? Do you actually live in Finland? Holy shit that's just sad. You're famous for having one of the most racist social policies, and one of the absolute smallest immigration rates in all of Europe, and yet you complain there's too much? You have 150k immigrants and children of immigrants total, which equals a 2% of the population. Don't you have more serious issues than that? Alcoholism for instance? I seem to recall that just about every hobo in Sweden speaks with a Finnish accent. Well, when almost all the sexual crimes are comitted by immigrants, some people might consider that a problem worth adressing. | ||
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sc4k
United Kingdom5454 Posts
On August 11 2012 18:38 Psychobabas wrote: Multiculturalism has failed in Europe. Just visit London, probably the most multicultural capital in Europe. You expect to see a harmonious cooexistence of cultures but what you get are completely segregated neighborhoods according to race and ethnicity. The Pakistanis are doing their own thing in east London, the Somalis their own, the Indians their own, the Africans their own, the Arabs their own, the Chinese their own etc etc all with little will to integrate to British culture, nevermind tolerating other cultures. Some can barely speak a word of English. I'm pretty sure this is okay. As long as no one breaks the law, there's nothing wrong with having cultural geographical groupings. There are generally locations where Aussies go, Polish go, Spanish go as well as Africans and Orientals. There are grouping areas for the English in almost every country. There are plenty who come from these areas who branch out, the next generation will intermarry with other cultures. It takes a while but divisions get broken down. And as a reward we get a shitload of talent across the gene pool of humanity. Worked for the US as far as I can see (although the incredible influx of Mexicans has sort of upset the apple cart). On August 11 2012 19:58 Sepi wrote: I'm kinda disgusted about the people who just come to the country and leech ALL out of the social security system. There have been SO many cases in my country where people lie to the government, mainly about their childs and heatl condition etc. to get max support from the governemnt. We as tax payers must pay this all. And they still complain how they have just 60 square meter house FOR FREE. Its ridiculous. Luckily there is a counterweight to this immigration, because there are a lot good people. Who acts just like us, does work and tries to proceed in their career. I higlhy respect these people as they can ADAPT to other enviroment and work their hart out to have what they deserve. Even all the sexual crimes are mostly committed by immigrates. The studies that i have read, also indicate that its HIGHLY possible that they will continue to commit crimes. In my law system there is no way to kick any people out. They just get 1-2 years of probation and something like 1000 euros of indemnity or something like that. Im no racist at all, but it just makes me sick how they can be so abusive, and yet so arrogant. This isn't really a complaint about multiculturalism, rather a complaint about the state of the Finnish legal system and the weakness of its determination process for working out validity of benefit claims. | ||
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Bahamut1337
Ghana205 Posts
On August 11 2012 20:47 Euronyme wrote: Wow really? Do you actually live in Finland? Holy shit that's just sad. You're famous for having one of the most racist social policies, and one of the absolute smallest immigration rates in all of Europe, and yet you complain there's too much? You have 150k immigrants and children of immigrants total, which equals a 2% of the population. Don't you have more serious issues than that? Alcoholism for instance? I seem to recall that just about every hobo in Sweden speaks with a Finnish accent. I think Finland has a model we should follow, it forces people to join society. Its not like Sweden where a Somali can get 8 kids and make the taxpayer pay for it. You seem to avoid the rest of his post, Immigrants are more criminal, less educated, cheat the system more, rape more etc. If you would have a society with 30-40 percent immigrants it would be unliveable. Also Where are the Swedish Jews? Oh most left due to immigration from intolerant groups? Oh wow that is something to be proud off! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/sweden/7278532/Jews-leave-Swedish-city-after-sharp-rise-in-anti-Semitic-hate-crimes.html | ||
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Sepi
Finland231 Posts
On August 11 2012 21:06 sc4k wrote: This isn't really a complaint about multiculturalism, rather a complaint about the state of the Finnish legal system and the weakness of its determination process for working out validity of benefit claims. True, but its still all because of multiculturalism. In finland, we are nowhere near of other nordic countries like norway or sweden yeah. And its not that big problem because our economics can easily handle it, but mutliculture is ongoing process here. Im not against it, and i havent even seen its all sides yet. The things that i read are kinda contradictious and have both sides so i cant speak anything about that of myself. On August 11 2012 21:11 Bahamut1337 wrote: I think Finland has a model we should follow, it forces people to join society. Its not like Sweden where a Somali can get 8 kids and make the taxpayer pay for it. Wrong. We pay much more than swedish people per immigrant. Our numbers just arent in the swedish level to match their overall expenses. [Edit] Just to add, i read an article that we give something near to 2000 euros average per immigrant for month ( Grown ups with families). I think it was 2nd best rated in the world. It was more than twice compared to many other european countries. So we fully provide everything to them that they need in order to adapt to the society. I don't remember it exactly because it was more than a year ago in a newspaper, but it tells definately something. On August 11 2012 20:47 Euronyme wrote: Wow really? Do you actually live in Finland? Holy shit that's just sad. You're famous for having one of the most racist social policies, and one of the absolute smallest immigration rates in all of Europe, and yet you complain there's too much? You have 150k immigrants and children of immigrants total, which equals a 2% of the population. Don't you have more serious issues than that? Alcoholism for instance? I seem to recall that just about every hobo in Sweden speaks with a Finnish accent. Haha, now its you who brings up the mileading stereotypes that doesnt belong in this discussion. Dont know anything about your hobos really and i dont care. Just to note that we dont see that much of them here on public lol. I do not see how its racist policy if you dont let everyone to come to LIVE in your country whitout working or doing any good to the society like swedish do. Its not like the all of them is unemployed, but you cant deny that there is MUCH of them in your society. The multiculturaliaism is part of your society now, and there is no denying it but i cannot see why you see it as racist policy if everyone doesn't follow? I do not complain about immigrants, and i think its a good thing. It just my personal opinion, that in long time run they should be forced to try to earn their living by them selves. I get it that it takes time to settle in new enviroment and society, but majority of unemployed foreign people even do not try really to get any work, its just that our social security system encourages that kind of life style. Its not because of multiculturalism. What im trying to point out is, do they really need the 1/4-1/3 or more to be immigrants to get that actual multicultural feeling, which could lead to them blending in to the society better? Or is it just that many of these people are lazy when they suddenly get all these benefits, so they don't have to contribute any good in the foreign society? Don't really know. I bet there is no answer : ( | ||
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SiroKO
France721 Posts
On August 11 2012 21:11 Bahamut1337 wrote: I think Finland has a model we should follow, it forces people to join society. Its not like Sweden where a Somali can get 8 kids and make the taxpayer pay for it. You seem to avoid the rest of his post, Immigrants are more criminal, less educated, cheat the system more, rape more etc. If you would have a society with 30-40 percent immigrants it would be unliveable. Also Where are the Swedish Jews? Oh most left due to immigration from intolerant groups? Oh wow that is something to be proud off! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/sweden/7278532/Jews-leave-Swedish-city-after-sharp-rise-in-anti-Semitic-hate-crimes.html A lot of whites are also targeted. And because of that all whites fleed the places flooded by African/Middle-Eastern immigrants (totally not the case with Asians). In France, most Jewish intellectuals/media were pro-immigration and forbade any criticize of third world immigration as long as they only targeted the white natives. As soon as the immigrants moved to other areas, and that they realized that they were by far more anti-semitic than the French because of the Palestinian conflict, they started to allow and even encourage people to denounce "Islam" and so on. | ||
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zalz
Netherlands3704 Posts
On August 11 2012 21:32 SiroKO wrote: A lot of whites are also targeted. And because of that all whites fleed the places flooded by African/Middle-Eastern immigrants (totally not the case with Asians). In France, most Jewish intellectuals/media were pro-immigration and forbade any criticize of third world immigration as long as they only targeted the white natives. As soon as the immigrants moved to other areas, and that they realized that they were by far more anti-semitic than the French because of the Palestinian conflict, they started to allow and even encourage people to denounce "Islam" and so on. Any evidence for these bold claims? Or just generic "ZIONIZM!" complaints? | ||
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Bahamut1337
Ghana205 Posts
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RageBot
Israel1530 Posts
On August 11 2012 20:47 Euronyme wrote: Wow really? Do you actually live in Finland? Holy shit that's just sad. You're famous for having one of the most racist social policies, and one of the absolute smallest immigration rates in all of Europe, and yet you complain there's too much? You have 150k immigrants and children of immigrants total, which equals a 2% of the population. Don't you have more serious issues than that? Alcoholism for instance? I seem to recall that just about every hobo in Sweden speaks with a Finnish accent. Irony at it's finest. | ||
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SiroKO
France721 Posts
On August 11 2012 21:50 Bahamut1337 wrote: Jews made up less then 2 percent of france's population and are somehow blamed for it? My oh my and here I thought Vichy France was long gone Belive me they're not 2% of journalists/media/corporation leaders. Besides, 75% of the French jews survived because French people hided them and didn't denounce them. It was the left who gave all power to MR Petain (assembly was mostly leftist). On the other hand, most of the early resistants were at what we would call today the far-right. | ||
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Bahamut1337
Ghana205 Posts
They are a miniority, the french people themselves voted massively for the people who opened the gates, blaming a group with a 2 percent voting infuence is silly on so many levels. Anyway seems france has enough problems. A Marseilles restaurant owner was threatened and attacked at the beginning of the week because he did not want to observe Ramadan, it has been learned today from a source close to the inquiry, confirming information from the daily La Provence. Aged 64-years-old, the restaurant-owner, a Frenchman of Egyptian origin not practising the Muslim religion, was approached on Monday by an individual walking around with a veiled woman. Several times the suspect demanded that the businessman, who operates in the Belsunce district (centre of Marseilles), to close his establishment for Ramadan, failing which he would undertake reprisals against him. One hour later, the individual returned and struck him a violent blow with his belt. Wounded by the metal part of the belt, the restaurant owner was transported to La Conception hospital. http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/2012/08/10/97001-20120810FILWWW00307-frappe-pour-ne-pas-faire-le-ramadan.php | ||
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
On August 11 2012 21:48 zalz wrote: Any evidence for these bold claims? Or just generic "ZIONIZM!" complaints? Many of the so called "leftist" philosophers and thinkers of the late 70's - early 80's are now against immigration, islam etc... Strangely enough they are pretty much all of jewish background :D http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandre_Adler http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alain_Finkielkraut http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romain_Goupil http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/André_Glucksmann etc... Ahhh the hypocrisy of the old trotskyists... 9/11 was too hard to swallow i guess. | ||
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SiroKO
France721 Posts
On August 11 2012 22:00 Bahamut1337 wrote: They are a miniority, the french people themselves voted massively for the people who opened the gates, blaming a group with a 2 percent voting infuence is silly on so many levels. Anyway seems france has enough problems. http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/2012/08/10/97001-20120810FILWWW00307-frappe-pour-ne-pas-faire-le-ramadan.php That's what we call "a fait divers", one incident. They're plenty of Muslim restaurants/butchery, in fact most of them, not closing for the Ramadan and nothing ever happened to their owners. | ||
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Bahamut1337
Ghana205 Posts
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