EPTI say we scumhunt as normal, but we need to get together a system for the round B voting so that townies do not die and scum do.
anyone who wants to talk can PM me but I make no guarantees. Only cookies.
Liar Game Mini Mafia - Page 5
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I say we scumhunt as normal, but we need to get together a system for the round B voting so that townies do not die and scum do. anyone who wants to talk can PM me but I make no guarantees. Only cookies. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On April 30 2012 12:05 Cephiro wrote: Sheth+Gonzaw+Me scumteam winning, calling it now, deja vu! :D Hehe, those were good times  Also, lol this is a PM game, didn't notice  I won't be PMing much, unless it's to coordinate things or ask for specific information. I played a PM game before, and even though very few people PMed me it was a pain in the ass to follow. @wgb: I'd say we need to come up with a plan for Round A as well. Even if we scumhunt normally, and find scum, if that scum is never on the majority of Round A we will never be able to lynch him. Scum know each other and may have some roles that manipulate the answers and stuff, so maybe they can make a scum of their choice always be a minority or something (for instance like in the actual manga) One thing I was thinking is, for instance to scumhunt normally this round, and have EVERYBODY claim what their answer will be in the thread (YES or NO) We force the "scummy" players to vote for the mayority, and the most townie ones vote for the minority to save them from Round B. Oh, talking about that, if someone PMs you telling you about creating a group with a "foolproof" plan where you vote the same way or something, don't buy it | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
Obviously, an optimal strategy for lynch choice would be for every person to vote the same way. Then, everyone makes it into Phase B, and no one is safe from being able to be lynched. This makes Phase B more complicated, but I think it's worth it for the choice. What do people think? Results are revealed afterwards, so we should know if someone's lying and made it into the minority. Anyone who does, we can lynch. I don't see a reason townies need to worry about being immune to lynch this early in the game. Perhaps in the later stages, where it's feasible scum rig the votes to kill them, but not now. If someone tries that now, we'll know about the ninja bandwagon, because again, the results are revealed. We should try to force scum to play by our rules. They'll be a lot more careful, because there's two scum teams, so I don't see them trying anything too ballsy. Any disadvantage going into the late-game will translate into the other scum-team having more influence than them. Also, because I can, and the name of the game, what do people think of LaL? :p | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
On April 30 2012 13:00 gonzaw wrote: One thing I was thinking is, for instance to scumhunt normally this round, and have EVERYBODY claim what their answer will be in the thread (YES or NO) We force the "scummy" players to vote for the mayority, and the most townie ones vote for the minority to save them from Round B. And how would that be useful? As nice as it would to believe people will vote for something co-operatively in a game of this size, it just won't happen. If you somehow manage to gather and confirm all townies, and ensure they vote in a certain pattern, that still enables scum to do whatever they want, and even if they outed themselves, they may still be able to get in the minority constantly. It's just not gonna work in a game where votes are hidden until the results. (Where it will be obvious who voted for what) I'm not expecting to see gamebreaking strategies (especially ensuring as making them work flawlessly is quite hard), so please concentrate on finding the scum instead of trying to come up with some epic plan. And don't get greedy. If we find someone that we are sure to be scum, then do everything possible to get that person killed or lynched. If we try to get greedy and be smartasses and try to lynch three scum at once, it'll most likely bite ourselves in the ass. Regarding PMs... anyone can PM me and say/ask anything they want, but I promise nothing to no-one as of yet. | ||
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Protactinium
Canada550 Posts
Katina has been replaced by Katinaa! | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On April 30 2012 13:11 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Obviously, an optimal strategy for lynch choice would be for every person to vote the same way. Then, everyone makes it into Phase B, and no one is safe from being able to be lynched. This makes Phase B more complicated, but I think it's worth it for the choice. What do people think? Results are revealed afterwards, so we should know if someone's lying and made it into the minority. Anyone who does, we can lynch. I don't see a reason townies need to worry about being immune to lynch this early in the game. Perhaps in the later stages, where it's feasible scum rig the votes to kill them, but not now. If someone tries that now, we'll know about the ninja bandwagon, because again, the results are revealed. We should try to force scum to play by our rules. They'll be a lot more careful, because there's two scum teams, so I don't see them trying anything too ballsy. Any disadvantage going into the late-game will translate into the other scum-team having more influence than them. how do you lynch someone who lies and then ends up in the minority pool, when being in the minority pool exempts them from lynch??!?! | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
On April 30 2012 13:11 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Well, I agree with gonzaw's statement that a strategy for Round A is also necessary. Scum are able to coordinate their votes, so they can always split themselves so that only half end up in the lynch pool ever if we let people just do whatever. So, we need some kind of strategy to make sure that we can get a decent amount of scummy people in the majority, that we can actually hold people to it, and that's feasible. Obviously, an optimal strategy for lynch choice would be for every person to vote the same way. Then, everyone makes it into Phase B, and no one is safe from being able to be lynched. This makes Phase B more complicated, but I think it's worth it for the choice. What do people think? Results are revealed afterwards, so we should know if someone's lying and made it into the minority. Anyone who does, we can lynch. I don't see a reason townies need to worry about being immune to lynch this early in the game. Perhaps in the later stages, where it's feasible scum rig the votes to kill them, but not now. If someone tries that now, we'll know about the ninja bandwagon, because again, the results are revealed. We should try to force scum to play by our rules. They'll be a lot more careful, because there's two scum teams, so I don't see them trying anything too ballsy. Any disadvantage going into the late-game will translate into the other scum-team having more influence than them. Scum can do whatever they want, as far as I know. Of course it may be possible that there is some sort of vote-controlling/eliminating power-role, but we should not speculate about the setup and concentrate on working what we have. We will not be able to direct scum onto a certain vote unless we manage to fool them of town's intentions, which won't be easy. The thing is, most likely the scum will be splitting their vote to some extent to lessen their lynch candidates. Also, are you joking about the optimal strategy? I don't really hope you are even imagining that to happen. Let's assume some fairy-tale scenarios about your "optimal strategy". 1) Everyone votes for the same option -> Everyone is able to be lynched (What are you trying to gain by this? The town can also benefit from not being lynched.) 2) The majority votes for the same option -> Well, what are you going to do about those who didn't? They are safe from lynch, and unless you possess a KP role you won't be able to do anything about it, but have to wait for the next day and try to manipulate votes in such a way that the person will end up in a majority. 3) Clusterfuck of votes on both options -> Most likely to happen Considering 2), it is highly unlikely that only scum would try to achieve the minority. I do not see it beneficial at start, even for a townie, to try and gain trust by "voting with the majority". I just don't see it happening, and in the case all townies happened to vote for the majority, then there's just a huge bunch of townies (And maybe a scum or two), in line for getting lynched. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On April 30 2012 13:11 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Well, I agree with gonzaw's statement that a strategy for Round A is also necessary. Scum are able to coordinate their votes, so they can always split themselves so that only half end up in the lynch pool ever if we let people just do whatever. So, we need some kind of strategy to make sure that we can get a decent amount of scummy people in the majority, that we can actually hold people to it, and that's feasible. Obviously, an optimal strategy for lynch choice would be for every person to vote the same way. Then, everyone makes it into Phase B, and no one is safe from being able to be lynched. This makes Phase B more complicated, but I think it's worth it for the choice. What do people think? Results are revealed afterwards, so we should know if someone's lying and made it into the minority. Anyone who does, we can lynch. I don't see a reason townies need to worry about being immune to lynch this early in the game. Perhaps in the later stages, where it's feasible scum rig the votes to kill them, but not now. If someone tries that now, we'll know about the ninja bandwagon, because again, the results are revealed. We should try to force scum to play by our rules. They'll be a lot more careful, because there's two scum teams, so I don't see them trying anything too ballsy. Any disadvantage going into the late-game will translate into the other scum-team having more influence than them. Also, because I can, and the name of the game, what do people think of LaL? :p If EVERYBODY arrives at Round B, it's very likely A LOT of townies will be killed. Think about it. All townies will vote for their 5 top town reads (or stack votes on someone). What happens to the "bad" townies that nobody will vote for? They will all die. Scum won't vote for them since they know no other townie will vote for them either. We could end up with various town lynches on D1. That's why I wanted to come up with something that will make only the scummy people on the mayority, or at least, have the players most likely to be town in the minority On April 30 2012 13:11 Cephiro wrote: And how would that be useful? As nice as it would to believe people will vote for something co-operatively in a game of this size, it just won't happen. If you somehow manage to gather and confirm all townies, and ensure they vote in a certain pattern, that still enables scum to do whatever they want, and even if they outed themselves, they may still be able to get in the minority constantly. It's just not gonna work in a game where votes are hidden until the results. (Where it will be obvious who voted for what) If everybody follows the plan, then those that vote different than they told are scum. After that, you can either get a vig to shoot them (if there is any), maybe luckily have the other scum team shoot them, or change the voting system on later days to ensure that player becomes mayority. The point is that either you have a claimed scum, or the plan goes through I'm not expecting to see gamebreaking strategies (especially ensuring as making them work flawlessly is quite hard), so please concentrate on finding the scum instead of trying to come up with some epic plan. And don't get greedy. If we find someone that we are sure to be scum, then do everything possible to get that person killed or lynched. If we try to get greedy and be smartasses and try to lynch three scum at once, it'll most likely bite ourselves in the ass. Regarding PMs... anyone can PM me and say/ask anything they want, but I promise nothing to no-one as of yet. The first hours of Day 1 are there to come up with an epic strategy and have people to comment on them and take stances. You can't tell me "concentrate on scumhunting" 1 hour after the Day started. Trust me, I am trying to scumhunt by generating discussion and forcing people to take stances on it. | ||
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Katinaa
United States2 Posts
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Motbob is great
Wales28 Posts
Isn't motbob looking fine today? + Show Spoiler + I'm using this until my main Meapak_Ziphh is unbanned... had no idea they were gonna kill everyone in that thread -_- | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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Katinaa
United States2 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
Well then, let's get started. As always, I cynically feel like any plan we hope to enact is doomed to fail so let's just vote how we want to vote for round A. We have a number advantage over scum, so voting randomly (according to how we feel) will put town at the advantage imo. I haven't decided how to use my votes for Phase B yet. I'm still pondering the matter. | ||
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Motbob is great
Wales28 Posts
On April 30 2012 13:11 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Also, because I can, and the name of the game, what do people think of LaL? :p Well as usual I'm against LaL, sometimes townies lie, sometimes scum don't lie, it's as simple as that. Just because they're lying doesn't make them scum. Just because they're telling the truth doesn't make them town. Smart scum don't get caught by LaL, bad townies do. Original Insane mafia anyone? -_- | ||
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Motbob is great
Wales28 Posts
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On April 30 2012 13:13 wherebugsgo wrote: how do you lynch someone who lies and then ends up in the minority pool, when being in the minority pool exempts them from lynch??!?! The next day? Or if there's vigs, we can shoot them. On April 30 2012 13:21 Cephiro wrote: Scum can do whatever they want, as far as I know. Of course it may be possible that there is some sort of vote-controlling/eliminating power-role, but we should not speculate about the setup and concentrate on working what we have. We will not be able to direct scum onto a certain vote unless we manage to fool them of town's intentions, which won't be easy. The thing is, most likely the scum will be splitting their vote to some extent to lessen their lynch candidates. Also, are you joking about the optimal strategy? I don't really hope you are even imagining that to happen. Let's assume some fairy-tale scenarios about your "optimal strategy". 1) Everyone votes for the same option -> Everyone is able to be lynched (What are you trying to gain by this? The town can also benefit from not being lynched.) 2) The majority votes for the same option -> Well, what are you going to do about those who didn't? They are safe from lynch, and unless you possess a KP role you won't be able to do anything about it, but have to wait for the next day and try to manipulate votes in such a way that the person will end up in a majority. 3) Clusterfuck of votes on both options -> Most likely to happen Considering 2), it is highly unlikely that only scum would try to achieve the minority. I do not see it beneficial at start, even for a townie, to try and gain trust by "voting with the majority". I just don't see it happening, and in the case all townies happened to vote for the majority, then there's just a huge bunch of townies (And maybe a scum or two), in line for getting lynched. Everyone able to be lynched means we are not limited in any possible way in who we want to kill. If everyone just votes for whoever, then we're only ever really going to have half of the scum team able to lynch in round B, and there's no guarantee any primary scum targets will make it that far. It means that someone who is incredibly likely to be scum can continue to be in the minority day after day without being able to be lynched. That's incredibly sub-optimal. Additionally, there's no particular reason townies need to be in the minority this early in the game. What's the benefit? I'm not here to hold people's hands. If they're that townie they need lynch protection on day 1 or 2, then they should prove it, and thus get enough votes to live through round B. I think of this voting system as a reverse lynch. We vote for who we want to keep alive. That means you should be putting effort into this game. Lurkers and inactives aren't going to be able to coast along, because I for one, am not going to throw any votes at them. I don't mean even bad townies need to become scumhunter extraordinaires, but they should be putting some kind of effort into the game, so that we can know they're actually trying, and hopefully, that they're town. For point two, it gives us targets to kill or lynch the next day. Like I said, there's not much reason to want to be in the minority as town, unless your game-plan is to just not play and coast along on a bare minimum of effort. To address point three, this would be a policy vote. Everyone would agree to it, and those who stray off the path will be put under intense scrutiny. If only a couple people try to get in the minority, we just kill them. If it's large number, then it just means the plan failed, but that doesn't really hurt us, as we should still hopefully have scum in the majority. I don't think they'd risk throwing every member into the minority on day 1, and then they risk the other scum team doing the same thing and actually becoming a majority, depending how many townies also followed suit. On April 30 2012 13:23 gonzaw wrote: If EVERYBODY arrives at Round B, it's very likely A LOT of townies will be killed. Think about it. All townies will vote for their 5 top town reads (or stack votes on someone). What happens to the "bad" townies that nobody will vote for? They will all die. Scum won't vote for them since they know no other townie will vote for them either. We could end up with various town lynches on D1. That's why I wanted to come up with something that will make only the scummy people on the mayority, or at least, have the players most likely to be town in the minority If everybody follows the plan, then those that vote different than they told are scum. After that, you can either get a vig to shoot them (if there is any), maybe luckily have the other scum team shoot them, or change the voting system on later days to ensure that player becomes mayority. The point is that either you have a claimed scum, or the plan goes through The first hours of Day 1 are there to come up with an epic strategy and have people to comment on them and take stances. You can't tell me "concentrate on scumhunting" 1 hour after the Day started. Trust me, I am trying to scumhunt by generating discussion and forcing people to take stances on it. Well, we could come up with a vote strategy for phase B as well, if we have to. Looking at the player-list, we hopefully shouldn't have too many weak or bad townies, so that no one will vote for them. Also, the chances of all of them dying are actually very low, so long as we're sure to throw some votes on some of them. Remember we have 5 votes, that can be split, so we can spread them around a bit if we have to. If you don't like my plan, what would you suggest in alternative? My plan is very easy to implement, since all everyone has to do is vote the same way. There's no ways to cheat the system besides doing so blatantly. There's no way to manipulate the result into one's favour. There's no way for it to mess up due to complexity. It's simple, forceful, and effective. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
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Motbob is great
Wales28 Posts
Feel free to speculate how many that is and who all I've PM'd Also feel free to speculate if I switch to a different account to continue PMing. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
the more town there are in the minority the less likely scum are there. That means scum are less likely to be exempt from lynch. Now of course it'll be almost impossible to ensure that you're in the minority, as I imagine it'll be fairly difficult to influence the answers that people provide to the question, AND being in the minority may make players potentially less accountable, but it's just something to think about. If you're town and in the minority please don't shirk your responsibility to hunt scum. You may be exempt from lynch for the day but that doesn't mean anything beyond that. We should use the time we have in the next 24 hours to determine who we'd like to kill. We can use additional time in the B phase to continue that determination and then put a plan into action to actually kill that person. I have ideas already, as do at least a couple of you, from what I have gathered. | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5255 Posts
Why? If everyone is in the majority (assuming everyone followed the plan, which they wouldn't), that means there are 18 people up for lynch. Normally this would be no problem at all, as everyone is always up for lynch, but due to the rules of this game anyone with 0 votes, or tied for lowest is lynched. If this plan were to be followed, I can all but guarantee that we will have 3+ townies dying simply because no one thought they were important enough to be voted, while scum players can obviously get votes on them. This plan allows for suboptimal townies to be culled at no cost to the scum teams. Mr. Wiggles arguement is that if you're bad then it's fine if you die. I heavily heavily disagree with this. Honestly, I just want to randomly put my vote down and focus on scum hunting because whether I'm in the majority or minority, I don't plan on being mislynched. However, since it's starting to seem like scum may try to abuse the system, I'll follow any plan that has decent logic behind it. Meapak, do you not care about any of the plans that have been put forth so far? | ||
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