EPTLiar Game Mini Mafia - Page 7
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
On April 30 2012 22:31 Mr. Wiggles wrote: I can half get behind this plan. I don't like the idea of Palmar being some arbitrary judge of towniness, but if we want to do the everyone votes for the same person, and we can discuss and exempt certain people, then I'll support it. It's close enough to my plan, with some added benefit. dude, if there's one thing I do well it's finding townies. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
Your plan just makes it so that you (obviously you're going to vote to be in the minority) control everything about round 1. That's so problematic especially is the game goes on because you get more and more power as there's less and less people to control. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On April 30 2012 20:02 prplhz wrote: I hope this doesn't end in Ace being shot again. We don't know how many (or even if) we have a vigilante, scum who want to avoid lynch will have like a ~40% chance each day of avoiding the lynch, and they don't even need their scumbuddies' help for this! If we go through with the pardon plan for days then they will even get 100% chance of avoiding lynch and we will need vigilantes to take care of them so potential vigilantes should not use their shot to enforce plans. I imagine that there are roles more related to the central game mechanic, maybe M/M inverters or people who can throw other people from one pool to the other, maybe some hidden votes for round B. I thought about how the vote trading panned out in Hammer Mini Mafia (for those who haven't read, everybody had 5 votes and we had to give some away to other people every night). In that game people might not give votes to the most townie player just because "he would already get a bunch" and then he would end up with none. Also, I think charismatic people might get relatively many votes compared to how "townie" they really appear but we still don't want people like me to die just because no one thought to trade me (goes for other people too). I'm unsure about what to think about big round B plans, I'm always worried about what powers scum may have and I think that just relying on people to do their best should suffice (at least in this game with this infinitely stacked player list). What I'm going to do is that I'm going to split my votes up and throw a bunch of them into people I think other people are likely to vote for, and throw some of them into people I think other people are more unlikely to vote for. If everybody else does this then we're not going to have any problems (and we're going to have a lot of information this way) but if only I do it then there's not really much harm in that anyway. I think it was gonzaw/syllogism who proposed that round B should be an unofficial vote and then we try to kill the "winner" of that vote, but I don't know about that. This is a game about finding townies and if we all agree that someone is scum then we're not going to need a huge plan for getting him lynched, people are just not going to vote for him or they're going to get into trouble. I have never seen an unofficial voting system in action either, at least not one that worked. It seems that there is already a big plan in place for round A and it's kinda alright with me, syllogism and Palmar have good reads on each other so I'm going to go along with whatever they feel like for now. Don't you think that if you just vote who you want and split all your votes up there's a good chance scum will be able to get just enough votes to not be lynched and we'll just end up having a townie die? I think the problem you're trying to address shouldn't come up if we hold everyone to placing their votes in public and not lying about them. Then, there shouldn't be a townie player who gets no votes like you're scared of. Just throwing votes around like that seems like we'll end up with no control over the lynch. So, I'm going to ask you, and also Chaoser since he suggested it as well, why do you support people just voting for whoever? Why do you think it will automagically sort itself out? | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
Why you ask? The only thing we know of his plan is that it will most benefit him and whichever faction he belongs to. If he is of either mafia family then that side is now instantly ahead. If he is town then town will be reliant on his ability to properly distribute who is town and who isn't. Given that he also wants people to claim it seems off. Of all the day 1 plans his is also well the least pro town. It is the most pro palmar. Now as for how I personally currently account for day 1? I will play the game as honestly as possible. As such the question I have already answered. Trying to figure out a workable plan for day 2 is far more realistic than trying to force one down peoples throats for day 1 given that the first phase is only 24 hours. At this point with almost half the day fully gone and no clear plan established people are going to start voting as they see fit. The most ideal solution in my opinion is to look at the possibility of treating this game moderately as per a normal game of mafia. Set it up with everyone figuring out of the majority list who is most likely to be mafia and arrange the system to make sure only 1 person dies per lynch. Unless we are 100% sure on multiple people being mafia we should not be trying to arrange that more than one person dies. The more deaths there are with little to no solid information is just going to lead to a mafia win unless we get really lucky. As I would prefer to not win via luck, lets do this with solid analysis and reads. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
This is off-topic, but perhaps you should stop joining games that have non-standard setups if you have no interest in actually figuring out the setup and utilizing it in the way that best benefits the town. That's the whole point. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On April 30 2012 23:13 syllogism wrote: I can't say I'm even slightly surprised to see you on the wrong side of a decent plan. This is off-topic, but perhaps you should stop joining games that have non-standard setups if you have no interest in actually figuring out the setup and utilizing it in the way that best benefits the town. That's the whole point. I have many reason to have disdain towards how that game operated. Keep in mind I have been on TL long enough to form opinions on how I believe games should be played. Playing a game attempting to figure out a setup and utilizing it in a way that best benefits the town is a noble goal when done properly. Palmar's plan is so far sub optimal. It best benefits him and the people in his "inner circle" per se. A plan that best benefits the town is one that takes the power away from one specific player and makes us work as a team and in the open. Why? Because this system is one that benefits whoever controls the lynch. One player should not determine why someone should be in the minority or not. Why? If any of the people he is talking to is mafia they can get on his good side and ride minority forever. If he is mafia his team can easily coast to victory as well, etc... By making the first phase of every day something you cannot predict it means mafia cannot easily dodge the lynch. More importantly, it will show patterns of people who are lumped together. Who always votes opposite of eachother, who always votes together, etc.... Why would we want to lose those things? I give props for palmar thinking of a plan, I shake my head as its not a good one. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
On April 30 2012 23:13 syllogism wrote: I can't say I'm even slightly surprised to see you on the wrong side of a decent plan. This is off-topic, but perhaps you should stop joining games that have non-standard setups if you have no interest in actually figuring out the setup and utilizing it in the way that best benefits the town. That's the whole point. How is it a decent plan again??? The plan is literally "let palmar control round one" | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
On April 30 2012 23:26 chaoser wrote: How is it a decent plan again??? The plan is literally "let palmar control round one" Because he seems townie enough and the alternative is basically random chance or worse. We aren't going to be able to democratically determine who should be in the minority and who shouldn't in 24 hours, especially on day 1. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
Remember, I will post a list of pardons (those will probably be in the range of 3-7 players), and I can and will be held accountable for those reads. Sure, you can try the lone ranger approach. But my plan is by far the best one that's been put out. It's strictly dumb not to try and put obvious townies in the minority, as it means we don't have to spend resources defending them against the lynch. It's sure as hell a lot better than going with no plan where no one is accountable. This is like the first rule of day 1 mafia play, something I consider my area of expertise, make people accountable for their actions. Not to mention, if we successfully eliminate a few obvious townies from the pool, it puts increased pressure on everyone in the game to figure out townies, instead of just allowing people to slap their votes onto some obvious townie. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
On April 30 2012 23:30 syllogism wrote: Because he seems townie enough and the alternative is basically random chance or worse. We aren't going to be able to democratically determine who should be in the minority and who shouldn't in 24 hours, especially on day 1. So we're to buy into this plan on the idea that we can trust "your word" that palmar is "townie enough"? The alternative ISN'T random chance or worse. We all decide someone that should be minority, everyone else gets sent to round B. That is basically palmar's original plan but without the exemption part. It's a simpler plan since we only have to decide on one person to be in the minority. On April 30 2012 19:02 Palmar wrote: Okay, I got it. So we just force the people we want to lynch to be on the majority side of the thing right? Actually, we should just say "everyone votes YES" unless given an exemption. That way we can just weed out obvious townies and spend the rest of the day figuring out whom to lynch. Also lynching a lot of people sounds fun. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
And yes, you should take my word on that. My read can be wrong, but even if it is, it wouldn't be a disaster. As Palmar said, he would be accountable. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
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Motbob is great
Wales28 Posts
Anyway, I think we should let round A happen as it will. Think about it, you're the scum team, would you ever put a majority of your players on one side? Of course not! The last thing the scum wants in this game is to have more members be in the majority. In this case, it's in their best interest to split their members in half and have half on one side and half on the other. What does this mean? Well first off I'm of the opinion that the fewer people we have in the majority the better, it'll just make for a smoother round B. Rather than wade through the entire player base, we get a smaller group and within this group should be roughly half the scum teams. Now this strategy does rest on one giant assumption, that the scum teams will split evenly. Before you shoot this idea down, look at the player list. This is a pretty small game, if the scum stack one side more than the other they've destabilized the answers in a way that isn't beneficial to them. Perhaps in later rounds we'll have to deal with scum meddling, but for the first few days the risks of intentionally putting members in harms way far outweigh the rewards in my mind. Best of all this plan doesn't appoint Palmar king Also feel free to PM me again I'm going to school now, peace out | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
If palmar was part of a team, by the time we figure it out, it would be too late. Even more so since apparently he's asking people to claim to him. This is such a ridiculous assertion that I think I know who I will be voting to lynch today. Too late for what? Why do you assume it would take long? And if he is mafia and had given his team mates immunity on previous rounds, wouldn't we just catch them all at once? Don't you think the other team would shoot him anyway? Why is he, as mafia, putting himself in such a spotlight especially given that there is another team that can, presumably, just kill him? It seems to me your mindset is not that of a townie | ||
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