EPToGsHyperdub Pulling this strat of vs IMJunwiPirme
[G] TvZ Mass Marine - Page 5
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kroko
Finland2136 Posts
oGsHyperdub Pulling this strat of vs IMJunwiPirme | ||
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KannedTuna
United States38 Posts
Infestorling also counters the standard marinetank well since a fungals will kill virtually all his marines whil a few lings cam finish the tanks. I'd love to see terranes use this more as a zerg. When I play the standard marine tank it just seems so weak. | ||
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Falcon-sw
United States324 Posts
Recently I've just been rolling terranes who go marine tank since all youneed to do is pick of tanks with mutas Seems.... a bit more difficult than you make it sound. 1. The first marine/tank push comes before you can have mutas out. 2. Any decent Terran will keep marines with his tanks. Marines melt mutalisks, no? | ||
Ver
United States2186 Posts
To some degree it is personal preference but in general I don't feel the reaper gives enough oomph to warrant the much later command center compared to grabbing it on 16 supply in a normal rax cc. | ||
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
On May 02 2011 17:15 Ver wrote: Have you considered trying a variation of Thorzain's build vs fruitdealer? You can only safely CC first on large maps but you can still use the general ideas behind it. With the amount of map control you will have you can safely take the 3rd even with an orbital you float from inside your main on most maps. Essentially you make a 3rd cc after 2 rax, then go for a mass rax timing attack that hits before baneling speed while being able to afford a lot more stuff overall. From there you can branch out into a harass heavy bio approach or transition into 3-4 fact tank support. You don't really sacrifice much to get that fast 3rd cc, it's safe, and Zerg can't easily scout it. To some degree it is personal preference but in general I don't feel the reaper gives enough oomph to warrant the much later command center compared to grabbing it on 16 supply in a normal rax cc. I've been playing around with various strats in TvZ like 2 rax into 3 cc or 1 rax into 3 cc even and zerg can't scout what I'm doing. The only problem with that I feel is it takes some time for my econ to really kick in and even more time for my production to ramp up so zerg can potentially drone up like crazy while in the dark =( It's not a bad idea by any means but I haven't had much success with it yet. I like the fast reaper because it feels safe vs early shenanigans but I can see how good scouting can mitigate that a lot (mvp vs violet GSL code a comes to mind) | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
On May 02 2011 23:46 infinity21 wrote: I've been playing around with various strats in TvZ like 2 rax into 3 cc or 1 rax into 3 cc even and zerg can't scout what I'm doing. The only problem with that I feel is it takes some time for my econ to really kick in and even more time for my production to ramp up so zerg can potentially drone up like crazy while in the dark =( It's not a bad idea by any means but I haven't had much success with it yet. I like the fast reaper because it feels safe vs early shenanigans but I can see how good scouting can mitigate that a lot (mvp vs violet GSL code a comes to mind) Have you experimented with reaper openings? Basically build moderate to large amount of reapers so you can sink more minerals into CCs (instead of depots and marines) while putting on pressure. | ||
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
On May 03 2011 02:51 Antisocialmunky wrote: Have you experimented with reaper openings? Basically build moderate to large amount of reapers so you can sink more minerals into CCs (instead of depots and marines) while putting on pressure. Reapers are really too fragile especially without speed. Building a large army of reapers means I'll get my additional CCs slower due to having to add 2nd refinery, rax & tech labs. 2 rax into 3 cc is pretty safe and gets there faster than something like 5 rax reaper while providing a more flexible transition imo. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
 I have some of Griffith's 3OC builds lying around but those timings are a little whacky. Its okay if you don't want to but I'm trying to figure out how to do mass expanding vs zerg. | ||
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4Servy
Netherlands1542 Posts
1) ling/bling high econ busting 2) roach/ling all in off 15 hatch 3) zergs instantly taking their 3th What you do is flipping a weighted coin with the weight against you because you will mb get a slight lead vs zergs on auto pilot and basicly get insanely behind if zerg reads the situation properly. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
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Steel
Japan2283 Posts
You know like blue flame hellions/tanks/air hard counter zerglings? I'm just curious. | ||
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4Servy
Netherlands1542 Posts
On May 04 2011 07:59 Antisocialmunky wrote: For points 1 and 2 You can wall off using 2CCs. 3 is problematic but zerg opens himself up to a timing attack by being so greedy depending on some maps. I think this is what infinity is trying to solve in his last post. points 1 and 2 you will still die to if done properly cause making another CC to block your nat isnt going to do anything lol. A high econ bling bust comes at 7.20, you show me how you can hold that after 1 rax > fe and then slamming down 2 cc's to block. You will have 8 marines and a bunker or so and zerg will just blow up your rax and its game over. Zerg has 2 majour timing weaknesses, the first is before ling speed, the 2th is before muta's and bling speed arround 11 minuts in. If you want to go mass marines you want to use these 2 timings to delay zerg as much as possible. By forcing additional lings before speed, and denying then his 3th before he has enough bling/ling/muta to secure it. Making additional cc's arround these timings is going to completly screw you in the midgame. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
I'm not sure if we are on the same page about the sim city. I'm saying 1-2 CCs at the top of ramp to block not building another CC for a total of 4CCs to wall. You can't wall really open naturals against bling busts anyway. You can only wall part of the natural off (like Xel Naga) near the ramp. If you 1 rax CC, you should have an extra CC as well as a ton of barracks lying around to wall due to your late gas. Really the lack of tanks is a bigger problem than walling off because you're so behind on infrastructure but you can hold if you have enough bunkers on the bigger maps which is what they were talking about. On small maps, 1 Rax CC is pretty risky as you know muchless 1 rax 2 CC. | ||
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Sovern
United States312 Posts
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vBr
Sweden193 Posts
The idea, however, is not bad. Several players are, nowadays, playing pure bio styles with multipronged attacks and good trading (keyword for such a build). However, this, I feel, would be difficult to pull off for a player below master level (no idea how good you are, just stating) since you will need to be very active and have good macro besides. Look at Bomber's play at Red Bull LAN that was played the previous weekend (26-27 may, replays available at http://www.redbullusa.com/cs/Satellite/en_US/001243035003218) where he deployed a mass bio build into mass raven for lategame - very BW-esque. | ||
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Plague1503
Croatia466 Posts
On May 02 2011 23:46 infinity21 wrote: I've been playing around with various strats in TvZ like 2 rax into 3 cc or 1 rax into 3 cc even and zerg can't scout what I'm doing. The only problem with that I feel is it takes some time for my econ to really kick in and even more time for my production to ramp up so zerg can potentially drone up like crazy while in the dark =( It's not a bad idea by any means but I haven't had much success with it yet. I like the fast reaper because it feels safe vs early shenanigans but I can see how good scouting can mitigate that a lot (mvp vs violet GSL code a comes to mind) I personally find that 2rax > fast 3 Orbitals is a very VERY strong build, and I've also been playing pure bio in TvZ like 80% of the time (when I don't, I use DeMuslim's Marine Hellion timing, but the transition is bio again in most cases so...). Even after the Queen buff, 2rax is still good for some light pressure, and you more than offset your initial eco loss by getting an ultrafast 3rd CC/Orbital. This allows for some very nice Bio Stim/Shields/Engi Upgrades timing pushes > float 3rd as you saturate incredibly fast with 3 OCs pumping out SCVs on 2 base, not to mention the extra MULE/scan capabilities. This build also has some potential in TvP, as the 12/14 Rax pressure is gaining more ground in the TvP metagame lately, and the principle behind it is basically the same - extra fast 3rd for SCVs/Mules, Bio/Medivac timing push, float out 3rd as you push. Just be sure to bring 2-3 SCVs so you can potentially bunker his FE and hide the 2nd Rax (like a Makarax or something, you don't have to necessarily proxy it) to maximize your push efficiency. | ||
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