Just because his not apologetic, and said it was justified, unless he said 'yes I meant for people to harass Chill' then the ban is not justified. Now with that being said, if we're playing on assumptions that IdrA did intend to mean that as harassment, then shouldn't we also assume CrunCher did stream cheat? Shouldn't he get a ban too?
Logical thought processing and deciding on the proven facts, not assumptions is the best way to get through this, something which the moderation team hasn't put into play as of yet.
You've got to look at the facts, and if there is little facts, get some. You got the "Unapologetic and justified response" from IdrA. That's great, but you still don't have the concrete evidence of him actually meaning to harass Chill.
TL Moderators need to Chill, and look at the big picture. Judging on assumptions causes a community outcry of fans, and people who don't like said person saying the ban is dumb/good. Unless the fans get concrete evidence that IdrA did indeed mean that to harass and be-little Chill, then I'll accept the ban. However, basing it off assumptions needs some type of justice against the provoker of this all, CrunCher.
Doing the moderation based on assumptions leads to community uncertainty to post content, which in return is going to lower the post count because people don't want to be banned for posting content that the moderators 'assume' to be dumb, spam, flame and other types of things against the TL commandments. All I'm saying is if moderators don't buckle down(100% without a doubt) with future foreseen high-outcry player bans, the community will do what it's doing now; Cry and demand facts rather then assumptions.
The psychology of idrA is so interesting to me, does he act the way he does in order to better promote himself? That's a big shameless but I feel like idrA garners a ton of extra attention that he wouldn't otherwise get by doing things like this. People watch his stream hoping to see him blow up and that translates into more ad revenue for him. On a more visceral level he might think that this makes him stand out when hes otherwise pretty mundane.
Or maybe it's totally genuine in which case I'm just confused, most of us go through this phase where we think perception doesn't matter and we grow out of it very early on but it's just lingering with him idk.
I'm happy TL banned him and isn't showing him any preferential treatment, what he did was an absolutely bannable offense.
On May 08 2011 10:12 Baeff wrote: Hang on a minute here...
Did you all think IdrA really wants Cruncher dead, and he is actually that mad when he loses?
Please. Talking shit to opponents is and should be tolerated, especially on the internet. I know almost every forum have some sort of rule about flaming, but in reality nobody cares.
Don't tell me you haven't flamed anyone for something they did that you didn't like. Cruncher cheated, it was so blatantly obvious, and TL just banned the best player in NA from the most popular NA SC2 forum.
Most of you have seen this, but it's so relevant I have to post the link:
Sure, telling people to spam Chill about the bans was a low blow, but who gives a crap about Chill's feelings anyway. I'm on this forum because of IdrA (among others) to learn and enjoy SC2, not to be afraid of prude moderators who think they can decide what should and shouldn't be allowed on the internet.
I'm sorry but your post count isn't high enough for the TL staff to think you matter. Also, you went against them in any shape or form so......see you in disney land?
Hello, giant fat nerd who thinks a million posts ---> tough guy. I don't give a single fart in the woods if what you or the TL staff thinks, I just posted my opinion because I wanted to.
Idra had it comming for a very very long time, it was his choice to act like he did and its about time kid learns meaning of responsibility for his actions. I hate BM'ing players and in my opinion theres no place for it in community. Gratz to TL staff for making this decision to ban him, i cant wait for when he comes back and starts spiting venom/gets perma banned and we all know it will happen.
Again, why is everyone just blaming Cruncher. Bring up the EVIDENCE. Surely someone caught a screenshot. This is not assumption, most of the TL mods know Idra very well, they personally have met him. Therefore, they do what they feel is right in this situation. @Zeru, yes that is the general trend I have seen as well.
what people are forgetting is that TL has high standards for the conduct of their users. due to the explosion of new users and lack of sufficient manpower to moderate a lot of people think TL is just some forum where you can post whatever you feel like with no repercussions. that couldn't be anywhere further from the truth.
this is going to sound super elitist but i don't care because it's the truth. TL is one of the foundations for why sc2 is the way it is today. TL is one of the reasons western esports even stands a chance. for 10 years through thick and thin our little community kept cranking out coverage of a video game from across the world that many have heard of but few truly understood. all the mods and staff you see aren't here doing it for the money or power, they do it because they love the game and the community. hot_bid, chill, kennigit? they all started as regular users who browsed the forum and loved the game. through contributions to the site and dedication they were selected to be among the proud few who could call themselves TL staff.
think about how easy it is today for you to get a stream to watch sc2 and remember that back in 2005 TL members would stay up till 2am on irc hoping that one of our members MAYBE could get their hands on a korean stream. remember that when WCG had no idea what TL was or how to get a proper caster TL's support and encouragement helped propel tasteless to caster fame.
TLPD? possibly the most comprehensive starcraft database in existence? made from the ground up by TL staff and volunteers. our strategy forums are probably the most informative english resources in the world, they have to be moderated and still we don't consider them to be perfect. articles, fpvods, commentaries? our users put their heart and soul into churning these out because they knew somewhere out there in our community there was someone who would appreciate it.
people need to stop considering TL a separate entity or some conglomerate of egotistic admins. TL is YOU. every single poster, viewer, or reader is part of TL. everything on this site is user generated by people who care and it's a damn shame when one of only sites that will literally take a stand for the community and uphold it's integrity is seen as some overzealous, overmoderated, egotistic, site for elitists.
if that's elitist then i'm an elitist and that's just how it is.
On May 08 2011 10:12 Baeff wrote: Sure, telling people to spam Chill about the bans was a low blow, but who gives a crap about Chill's feelings anyway. I'm on this forum because of IdrA (among others) to learn and enjoy SC2, not to be afraid of prude moderators who think they can decide what should and shouldn't be allowed on the internet.
Except there wouldn't be a forum, which you could visit without them. In that matter you should give a crap about them. They do hard work to keep this forum from becoming HLTV.org (or worse).
###
The fact of the matter is that there are strict rules which have been told a long time ago and IdrA has been punished for breaking them lots of times. I hope if this kind of attack to a TL mod happens a third time, it would be a final ban. He has had a lot of chances to start behaving and it hasn't been sinking in. Especially for a person who is idolized by a lot and take an example from him.
On May 08 2011 10:23 mahnini wrote: TL is one of the reasons western esports even stands a chance.
I have to partially disagree with this. Western esports has been getting stronger without the SC community with all the other games. It's true though that the SC2 boom wouldn't been as big as it has been without TL.
On May 08 2011 10:12 Baeff wrote: Hang on a minute here...
Did you all think IdrA really wants Cruncher dead, and he is actually that mad when he loses?
Please. Talking shit to opponents is and should be tolerated, especially on the internet. I know almost every forum have some sort of rule about flaming, but in reality nobody cares.
Don't tell me you haven't flamed anyone for something they did that you didn't like. Cruncher cheated, it was so blatantly obvious, and TL just banned the best player in NA from the most popular NA SC2 forum.
Sure, telling people to spam Chill about the bans was a low blow, but who gives a crap about Chill's feelings anyway. I'm on this forum because of IdrA (among others) to learn and enjoy SC2, not to be afraid of prude moderators who think they can decide what should and shouldn't be allowed on the internet.
I'm sorry but your post count isn't high enough for the TL staff to think you matter. Also, you went against them in any shape or form so......see you in disney land?
Hello, giant fat nerd who thinks a million posts ---> tough guy. I don't give a single fart in the woods if what you or the TL staff thinks, I just posted my opinion because I wanted to.
On May 08 2011 10:08 tofucake wrote: The 90 day was a result of a discussion among IdrA and various TL staff members.
It is still funny that people assume they know Idra's intent for his twitter post. There is nothing wrong with telling people to msg a moderator if they are upset with the decision. It is actually the most logical thing to do. He did not say, SPAM CHILL ALL DAY. What people did were results of their own actions.
So, is TL saying you are not supposed to express your opinion about something that goes on inside the site? If we disagree, are we not supposed to post about it or msg a mod? =/
Also, I fully understand TL can do whatever they want, but the site is supposed to be an unbiased place for people to express opinions (from what I've read from mods in the past). I wouldn't have said my above statement if this was not how the site had been presented to me in the past.
Of all people in the world, I don't see IdrA as being a person with the highest faith for intelligent responses, behavior, and argument among people (more or less masses of anonymous people over the internet with nothing to lose). He knew what the fuck was going to happen.
guys, a ban on TL doesn't mean that he's going to stop playing starcraft. It just means that he's going to stop shitting on these forums for a while. People saying "he shouldn't get banned because he's a really good player" need a reality check.
On May 08 2011 06:47 Ichabod wrote: Nazgul, I believe that link goes to the mod thread, is it essentially a link to this though? http://i.imgur.com/cULBN.jpg ^Posted by Kennigit on Reddit
QFT. Click the link.
Look at the amount of times IdrA has been banned. Now look at me. Look back at the amount of times he's gotten banned. Look back at me. Do you still think TL is being to harsh with this guy?
On May 08 2011 10:09 Gimmickkz wrote: Ohhhh to think... the type of player/person/figure Idra could be if he wasn't so bm
He would be ret.
You know, that guy nobody talks about at all, even though he is a really skilled zerg?
IdrA is popular because of the reasons displayed here. Why do yout hink Destiny gets more viewers than just about any streamer except GSL players?
I am not saying it justifies anything, but don't say idra could be better.
Dunno, i like a lot of foreign players who may not win that much, but are mannered.. I'm pretty sure as a western player who went to korea, hung out with the pros, and stuff like that, IdrA would have gotten the same amount of exposure anyway. So I think this whole "noo!! I will never grow up!!" thing lost him more fans/potential fans than it has won.
EPT
