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LxRogue
United States1415 Posts
Bisu/Jaedong should be 1/2. I might argue Jaedong should have stayed at 1, but number 2 is reasonable. Fantasy has been meh this month, him moving up doesn't make any sense. ZerO has been great, and I'm a big fan of his, but him jumping to #3 isn't justified at all. Thezerg has always sucked, Great would be a good replacement for him. | ||
JWD
United States12607 Posts
1) "JD isn't high enough / JD should be below ZerO" I think this issue is mostly one of interpretation of what the Power Rank means, precisely. I wrote this Power Rank as a ranking of the last month's most powerful gamers, and that is all. Obviously hypothesizing about who could beat who is a useful check for deciding where to rank players, but I don't think it should be the prime determinant of rank - performance over the last month of SC play should come first (that means "JD won the OSL" isn't so valid!). And in this area, I think ZerO, Bisu, and Fantasy are all just a cut above Jaedong. Plexa, I don't see how you can be so sure JD would beat Fantasy, for example, on "any given day of the week" considering they are 3-3 in recent meetings and Fantasy was especially impressive in their most recent. And yes JD's losses have been few and far between (and he definitely picked up his play towards the end of this PR period) but ZerO has an even better record while facing a decidedly more difficult set of opponents (Calm, Luxury, Kal3x, Yarnc, Leta, Bisu). Another key point that I think elevates ZerO above JD for this month is that he's beginning to rival Jaedong in ZvZ skill as well (what big Zerg didn't ZerO thrash over the past month?? Only JD) - he simply had a better month in terms of ZvZ play. Another aspect of JD's play to consider is performance in clutch matches for OZ: his losses to Fantasy and Movie in PL weren't just uncharacteristic, they probably cost Hwaseung its matches against T1 and CJ - the two teams with which OZ is really competing at the top of the PL rankings right now. Bisu, Fantasy, and ZerO have, for the most part, been rock solid in their biggest PL matches (ZerO's fresh loss to Leta in the ace of Hite-WJ comes to mind, but remember he beat Yarnc earlier in the match to give WJ a shot at the 5set in the first place). 2) Calm missing from CBNC Actually, this is my bad. Calm definitely deserves to be in CBNC. I had this eerie feeling I was forgetting someone, and he's it for sure. However, I did evaluate Calm for the 10-spot and found he came up short... (read on!!) 3) Thezerg in 10th When Power Ranking, wins and losses shouldn't all be given equal weight - even if they're between the same players. Much has to do with the context or significance of those wins: are they in high-pressure situations? Are they contributing to some crucial trend in SC right now - like a new strategy's emergence, a SL title run, or a great PL streak? The primary reason I gave Thezerg the nod over a slew of other players with admittedly similar records is that his recent performance reflects a major turnaround not only in his individual skill, but the strength of his entire team. T1's remarkable dominance in R4 of PL (no this is not blind fandom, I mean for fuck's sake SK Telecom T1 is in SECOND PLACE in Fantasy PL at the moment) would simply not have been possible without Thezerg, and that means that his wins over the past month mean just that much more than those of say, Calm or by.great. by.great does deserve credit for taking out Bisu and free with his innovative strat on Neo Medusa, but check out his other recent opponents: they're all powderpuffs. Not to mention great is sitting on a 3-game losing streak and he dropped out of GOM to ZergBong. ZergBong!! Calm has a great record over the past month and he does deserve props for being alive in MST (though that may only be because his group isn't complete yet), but he's faced a similarly weak host of opponents. Young2x, RorO, Anytime, MVP, oDin, go.go2x, Tempest?? These are not players we should be impressed to see Calm beat. The nail in Calm's coffin for this PR was his absolutely pathetic performance against Bisu in MST...damn was that sad to watch. Thezerg, on the other hand, has dealt with JangBi, HiyA, GoRush (yeah, GoRush is decent these days, especially in ZvZ on Battle Royal), and, most significantly in my mind, gave Leta a real series in the OSL Ro36. Yes he ended up getting embarrassed by wraith play, but do you honestly think Calm or by.great would have even taken a game from Leta? I'm a skeptic. | ||
Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
Switch Jaedong and ZerO; Zero was better this month, but he doesn't have the same reputation and aura of fear that Jaedong has. It's worth noting that both Savior and Bisu remained on top after losing an MSL final, because everyone was still scared of them. Something similar applies to Jaedong vs Zero here, I think. Switch Skyhigh and effort: Skyhigh has just better lately, IMO Switch Thezerg for any of the CBNC: I remain unconvinced about any of his matchups except his ZvT. Solid ranking though, and lol at KeSPA. EDIT: I have been ninja'd -_- | ||
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
On May 15 2009 13:35 thewalkindude wrote: Ya I really agree with this. Jaedong should be higher then Zero I mean comon... Just cuz he had one decent game VS Kal he is all of a sudden the new hotness I don't think so... Please explain how my "T1 fanboyism" would make me rank ZerO (Woongjin) above Jaedong (Hwaseung)?? And if you think the only reason I ranked ZerO in third is because he beat Kal with infested Terrans...you didn't even read the PR. | ||
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
On May 15 2009 13:36 hk2717 wrote: This PR sucks. It sucks ass. haha, thank you for your comment! | ||
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Kentor
United States5784 Posts
On May 15 2009 13:48 Elyvilon wrote: Switch Jaedong and ZerO; Zero was better this month, but he doesn't have the same reputation and aura of fear that Jaedong has. Seriously? You even said he was better this month. Come on... "aura of fear?" man.... | ||
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
On May 15 2009 13:06 Harem wrote: People who deserve spot more than TheZerg/Canata: Calm, Iris, Hiya, Violet, Hyvaa Btw, how about YOU take your own advice and watch the recent games of JD/Oz this month before making statements like JD's play has slipped or that his teammates are throwing the games for him. First off, what's your beef with me? Just curious. Second, I have watched many JD games from this past month (wins and losses alike). In my PR I recommended select games in some cases, but never advised people that they should watch every game from a certain player or team...that'd be really time-consuming. | ||
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Avidkeystamper
United States8556 Posts
It depends how much you want to follow precedents. "they'll highlight each of his losses by throwing the match instead of bailing him out." ~.- | ||
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Saracen
United States5139 Posts
Since I only watch Zerg games, I'll only comment on the Zerg rankings (but Fantasy should be lower based on his vZ games, haven't watched his TvP though so, IDK ... either way, JD is still much more of a threat and scarier to play against atm) ZerO is in no way the best Z right now. Having a better record this month doesn't mean any of his ZvX are better than JD's (which they aren't). IMO EffOrt's games were more impressive this month than ZerO's (barring the IT usage). And Calm and great are way more qualified than Thezerg for the #10 spot. TBH Thezerg's games weren't impressive at all (I was disappointed as hell with his series vs Guemchi). Even Hogil's games were more impressive than his. | ||
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Athos
United States2484 Posts
On May 15 2009 13:50 JWD wrote: Please explain how my "T1 fanboyism" would make me rank ZerO (Woongjin) above Jaedong (Hwaseung)?? Ok, as a T1 fanboy you want to put some distance between Bisu and his rival Jaedong whom you've come to loathe..... >_> | ||
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thunk
United States6233 Posts
I think you should put in by.Fantasy in as "Fantasy" so it doesn't break the PR layout and kill my eyes until the next one. I think one of the key points about TheZerg is that he's executing builds that he would have messed up 3-4 months ago. Some of his wins I wouldn't call clean but they're wins and they might be scrappy and poorly done but he's played well and also been a consistent Zerg player that SKT1 desperately needed. Nice PR JWD. I haven't really watched enough games to put together coherent arguments. | ||
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Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
On May 15 2009 13:53 Kentor wrote: Seriously? You even said he was better this month. Come on... "aura of fear?" man.... By this logic, Skyhigh was also better than JD this month. Therefore, Skyhigh should also be above Jaedong. It's not just about how well the player did. Sometimes, a great player stays at the top because they were a great player in the recent past. I think that Jaedong deserves that luxury here, and I don't even like Jaedong. | ||
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
On May 15 2009 13:56 Saracen wrote: No offense JWD, but it seems that you looked at TLPD stats page for each player to assign their ranks. I'm disappointed anyone would say this, because I've watched a ton of VODs this past month and really tried to focus on style and specific games over statistics in my writeup. If I get another shot at writing a PR, I'll try even harder to avoid mentioning records and focus even more on game quality. You have to realize, though, that one of the main reasons I like to drop records or recent victories is I think that the PR should not only be a rank of players, but also an interesting-to-read reminder of what exactly has gone on in the last month of SC play. | ||
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hazed
United States42 Posts
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Saracen
United States5139 Posts
On May 15 2009 14:00 JWD wrote: I'm disappointed anyone would say this, because I've watched a ton of VODs this past month and really tried to focus on style and specific games over statistics in my writeup. If I get another shot at writing a PR, I'll try even harder to avoid mentioning records and focus even more on game quality. You have to realize, though, that one of the main reasons I like to drop records or recent victories is I think that the PR should not only be a rank of players, but also an interesting-to-read reminder of what exactly has gone on in the last month of SC play. Sorry I guess I was just upset to see Thezerg over so many other more qualified (IMO) Zergs. I just don't like how he played this month (his wins were so blah). I appreciate the writeup, though, especially KeSPA. | ||
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ReCharge
Philippines505 Posts
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Kentor
United States5784 Posts
On May 15 2009 13:59 Elyvilon wrote: By this logic, Skyhigh was also better than JD this month. Therefore, Skyhigh should also be above Jaedong. It's not just about how well the player did. Sometimes, a great player stays at the top because they were a great player in the recent past. I think that Jaedong deserves that luxury here, and I don't even like Jaedong. I never said skyhigh shouldn't be above JD lawl | ||
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
Pretty scared of how big of a menace KeSPA can be to the other players, I hear it's become quite controversial and infamous among many viewers- kinda like FBH, but without the fans. | ||
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thunk
United States6233 Posts
On May 15 2009 13:56 Saracen wrote: No offense JWD, but it seems that you looked at TLPD stats page for each player to assign their ranks. He hasn't. Read his comments, he's been giving tie breaks to players who have played well and given a lot of weight to the severity of the matches in the last month. Also note that he isn't using Mani's crieterion of "Top 10 SC players who you wouldn't want to play against for your soul" hence why Jaedong's "aura of fear" comment doesn't fly. It's just different from Fakesteve, who tends to give a lot of weight to how well he thinks players have been playing over players who produce solid results. | ||
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
On May 15 2009 14:04 Zato-1 wrote: Also, if I had to guess as to why some are making a big deal out of T1 fandom sticking out in the PR, it's all in the Description field, not in the actual Ranks; there are a few too many references in the Descriptions to games with Bisu and Fantasy, I'd say. Considering I ranked Bisu and Fantasy 1/2, I figured it would be important to use other players' games against them to benchmark those players' performance. Also, games against other players in the PR are obviously most relevant to the rank. When writing this PR I considered intentionally burying T1 players to avoid backlash against "bias". Then I realized I objectively believed (to the extent that objectivity is possible) that each T1 player I ranked deserved his position more than any other player from any other team. If this wasn't the case, I wouldn't even be attempting to defend my rank! | ||
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