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On May 15 2009 14:06 thunk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2009 13:56 Saracen wrote:
No offense JWD, but it seems that you looked at TLPD stats page for each player to assign their ranks.
He hasn't. Read his comments, he's been giving tie breaks to players who have played well and given a lot of weight to the severity of the matches in the last month. Also note that he isn't using Mani's crieterion of "Top 10 SC players who you wouldn't want to play against for your soul" hence why Jaedong's "aura of fear" comment doesn't fly. It's just different from Fakesteve, who tends to give a lot of weight to how well he thinks players have been playing over players who produce solid results.
Jaedong won the OSL last month. That apparently didn't count for much.
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Great to see Kespa doing so well, gaining shape.
Jokes aside, this is a good list. Thanks for your work FakeSteve!
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On May 15 2009 14:09 Avidkeystamper wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2009 14:06 thunk wrote:On May 15 2009 13:56 Saracen wrote:
No offense JWD, but it seems that you looked at TLPD stats page for each player to assign their ranks.
He hasn't. Read his comments, he's been giving tie breaks to players who have played well and given a lot of weight to the severity of the matches in the last month. Also note that he isn't using Mani's crieterion of "Top 10 SC players who you wouldn't want to play against for your soul" hence why Jaedong's "aura of fear" comment doesn't fly. It's just different from Fakesteve, who tends to give a lot of weight to how well he thinks players have been playing over players who produce solid results. Jaedong won the OSL last month. That apparently didn't count for much.
The OSL games were covered by the last PR since it was late and as such are apparently not relevant.
On May 15 2009 13:48 JWD wrote:
I think this issue is mostly one of interpretation of what the Power Rank means, precisely. I wrote this Power Rank as a ranking of the last month's most powerful gamers, and that is all.
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It seems odd to me that the games for the last month are weighted so heavily in this. I realize that the power rank is supposed to represent current skill, and not lifetime achievement or anything like that, but people should realize that there are random elements in starcraft. That's why a win percentage over 60% is considered so good, and why top notch players lose to no-names all the time. So moving jaedong down so much on the basis of, what, 5 losses? None of which were in very important games either- that's ridiculous. Jaedong's play is still as dominant as ever, it's just that sometimes things don't work out for him, same as anyone else.
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I have a feeling KeSPA is going to be on a tear this month. I expect him to go higher next PR.
Great list, no complaints at all.
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I'm a HUGE Jaedong fan, so there may be a little bias here, but it seems like most are thinking the same thoughts i am. Yes, for most of april Jaedong sort of feel off a bit...he only recently started bouncing back so I can accept that he may have missed the timing for PR. His record in april does not really qualify him to be #1. Sure he just came off his OSL title, but his results for the month do matter. In an interview JD himself says he felt himself slipping in April.
However, droping all the way down to number 4 is a bit much, especially behind Zero. I can accept Fantasy being placed above him as Fantasy did put up more consistant results in april, and both he and Bisu both have proven that they are capable of taking JD to his absolute limit. Zero however is another matter entirely, he played some great games to be sure, but he still has a lot to prove. If Zero and JD played right now, or even back in April when JD was in his little semi-slump, I'm almost certain everyone would pick Jaedong as a clear favorite. Likewise, i think almost any programmer would be more nervous about facing JD in any given situation than facing zero.
Zero needs more time and more big games to prove himself, and Jaedong would have to be suffering an actual slump, (rather than dropping a few games here and there in Proleague right after an OSL win), before i would consider him worthy of being ranked higher
Other than that, excellent PR....KESPA at nine, scary. it could very well explode and make it all the way to the finals of a starleague if it keeps up its current level of play.
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United States12607 Posts
Everyone seems to be reading JD in 4th as "oh, JWD must think JD sucks now". Please consider the possibility that the players above JD (ZerO in particular) have picked up their levels of play! The Power Rank is obviously relative - this means a player can play just as well as he did last month and still lose ranks.
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I agree with most ranks except 2,3,4. it should go like this imo:
2. jd
3. fantasy
4. zero
And violet needs a mention in the CBNC.
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 Jaedong will beat the shit out of everyone this season and make JWD eat it.
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United States12607 Posts
On May 15 2009 14:19 MoRe_mInErAls wrote:Jaedong will beat the shit out of everyone this season and make JWD eat it.
hehehe, unfortunately JD's performance in the upcoming Starleague season will not change how he played over the last month.
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There is no way, shape, or form how anyone can rank Zero above Jaedong.
The power rank isn't about a "who has the best stats in the last month rank." Zero cannot in any reasonable argument be currently considered a better player than Jaedong.
Players go on hot and cold streaks all the time, it's not surprising. Wins and losses can be vastly affected by factors of map balance, caliber of opponents, or just simply elements of luck in the games. Zero having a little bit of better stats in the last month does not automatically override the years of Jaedong's supremacy. Hell, even if Zero wins every single one of his game in the last month it is still nowhere near enough for him to be considered the best zerg. And while we're on that -- Jaedong and Zero are BOTH 8-2 in their last 10 games.
Yes, recent stats should obviously count more, but just because so it doesn't mean you can just completely throw out the past years of absolute dominance. The only way how anyone can rank Zero above Jaedong is if they somehow just take into account the last month of results and completely ignores, shits, and spits on any past performance beyond that.
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On May 15 2009 14:16 JWD wrote:
Everyone seems to be reading JD in 4th as "oh, JWD must think JD sucks now". Please consider the possibility that the players above JD (ZerO in particular) have picked up their levels of play! The Power Rank is obviously relative - this means a player can play just as well as he did last month and still lose ranks.
what, so 1 cute game with infested terrans during the off season means that zero's now better than the guy who won starleague a month ago, and easily wins 90% of the zvz he plays these days?
I just don't see how you can base such a big reordering off of a few off season games.
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On May 15 2009 14:16 JWD wrote:
Everyone seems to be reading JD in 4th as "oh, JWD must think JD sucks now". Please consider the possibility that the players above JD (ZerO in particular) have picked up their levels of play! The Power Rank is obviously relative - this means a player can play just as well as he did last month and still lose ranks.
Plexa would love to think that you think JD sucks now, but he doesn't and he holds the same views. The problem here is that your criteria is WAY WAY WAY different from any of the previous power rank. Yours takes performances soley from a one-month interval and focuses mainly on results. Honestly though, ZerO has put up way better results than Fantasy, and against equal level of opponents, this goes by your criteria, in the last month. You also need to take into account on each player's opponents played in their respective games as well. Did you factor in how NalRa heralded Ganzi's game as perfect? Or was it just another loss to a no-name?
If you decided to revolutionize how the power rank works, I think that you also expected resistance from the masses. Imo, it would've been a better move to apply a less radical philosophy to some lesser known players so your intent isn't lost in a wave of fury.
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you guys complain too much
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We have a right to. And it's not complaining. It's either people validly expressing their views or flaming him.
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On May 15 2009 14:31 fusionsdf wrote:
you guys complain too much
Yeah seriously, it's either just disagreeing or straight-up flaming. Who would choose to complain?
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On May 15 2009 14:21 tfeign wrote:
There is no way, shape, or form how anyone can rank Zero above Jaedong.
Unless they disagree with you, that is. If you want to rank players according to how scary they are, Jaedong should definitely be above Zero. Jaedong should most likely be ranked #1, in fact. And in spots #2 and #3, I'd put in PirateZerg and MoustacheZerg, just because they look like JD!
But, this is not about how scary the players are, it's about how well they've been playing lately. And throughout april, I find it plausible that someone thinks Zero was better than Jaedong. I would probably have given the higher spot to JD, but that's just because of how intimidating he is. Zero's been playing better than a slumping Jaedong lately.
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United States12607 Posts
On May 15 2009 14:22 Avidkeystamper wrote:
If you decided to revolutionize how the power rank works, I think that you also expected resistance from the masses. Imo, it would've been a better move to apply a less radical philosophy to some lesser known players so your intent isn't lost in a wave of fury.
Honestly I don't think this PR or the thought behind it is very revolutionary at all. Power Ranking has always been about striking some balance between who we consider to be the "best" players in hypothetical Best-of-99999 series and who we think has played the best over the past month. Previous PR writers have merely put more stress on the former than I do.
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I have just noticed avidkeystamper has an OZ logo and he has just been keeping himself quiet enough with one-line post since the release of this PR :p
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EPT
