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United States45488 Posts
On March 28 2011 22:26 Antimage wrote:
DT openings aren't cheese. They're perfeclty viable, and it's a strategy I like to use when the distance to my opponent is far. I'd open one gate twilight-dark shrine, get 4 gates, then get a nexus/forge while attacking with 2 or 3 DT's. One cannon in my mineral line and if he gets a banshee, then I get a robo and an ob.
Get charge off 4 gates, go zealot/sentry, push right in or catch him while he's out of position while expanding.
It's not instant loss to banshee though versus someone with good control u'll be at a disadvantage.
Also, the most straightforward transition is forge/upgrades off 2 bases, get +2/+2 while getting a much later robo.
I find that works for me.
But to answer your question, you should transition into standard MMM with a couple ravens.
This. Marine cheese, marauder cheese, and medivac cheese is the way to take out the gateway units (especially without forcefields). And get out a cheesy raven or two just in case he (appropriately) re-creates a cheesy dark templar or two.
He would really need to get out some high templar swiss or some fine colossus cheddar to deal with your MMM (munster, monterey, and mozzarella).
Edit: Oh God I'm so hungry from posting this comment.
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i am 3500 master toss and i always 4 gate with gas then tech to dt.when terran scan my base he sees my 4 gate and bunkers his base.while waiting for darkshirne i put down a nexus.if i kill some svcs i exp again and from there i go blink + charge.with only 2 gas support i fully go mineral only on my expo with 8 gate.terran cant do anything to this build.blink left charge straight.
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LOL.
That was quite an epic game, but doesn't prove your point in the slightest.
Did scfou tech directly to raven after scouting dts (around 20 minutes in he makes first raven?) no he did not, could he? yes (could have cut a few units to start that factory), did he have a significantly larger army size? yes. If he had got that raven asap and pushed the main instead of the nat, would the game have played out differently? most likely.
BTW in the example game, I wasn't providing timings, but in the game you presented yourself, scfou had enough time to drop the ebay and turret up, and he could have fast teched to raven and pushed the main.
It's funny that you present a game where the terran didn't respond correctly to the DT cheese.
God damn this forum has gone to shit
TT
Whatever nerds, enjoy living in your ignorant bubbles where you are always right and cannot ever be wrong or argued with. Must be nice in there...
User was temp banned for this post.
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On March 29 2011 07:35 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 22:26 Antimage wrote:
DT openings aren't cheese. They're perfeclty viable, and it's a strategy I like to use when the distance to my opponent is far. I'd open one gate twilight-dark shrine, get 4 gates, then get a nexus/forge while attacking with 2 or 3 DT's. One cannon in my mineral line and if he gets a banshee, then I get a robo and an ob.
Get charge off 4 gates, go zealot/sentry, push right in or catch him while he's out of position while expanding.
It's not instant loss to banshee though versus someone with good control u'll be at a disadvantage.
Also, the most straightforward transition is forge/upgrades off 2 bases, get +2/+2 while getting a much later robo.
I find that works for me.
But to answer your question, you should transition into standard MMM with a couple ravens. This. Marine cheese, marauder cheese, and medivac cheese is the way to take out the gateway units (especially without forcefields). And get out a cheesy raven or two just in case he (appropriately) re-creates a cheesy dark templar or two. He would really need to get out some high templar swiss or some fine colossus cheddar to deal with your MMM (munster, monterey, and mozzarella). Edit: Oh God I'm so hungry from posting this comment.
Haha I like this
/ignore BigBossX
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On March 29 2011 07:36 BigBossX wrote:
LOL.
That was quite an epic game, but doesn't prove your point in the slightest.
Did scfou tech directly to raven after scouting dts (around 20 minutes in he makes first raven?) no he did not, could he? yes (could have cut a few units to start that factory), did he have a significantly larger army size? yes. If he had got that raven asap and pushed the main instead of the nat, would the game have played out differently? most likely.
BTW in the example game, I wasn't providing timings, but in the game you presented yourself, scfou had enough time to drop the ebay and turret up, and he could have fast teched to raven and pushed the main.
It's funny that you present a game where the terran didn't respond correctly to the DT cheese.
God damn this forum has gone to shit
TT
Whatever nerds, enjoy living in your ignorant bubbles where you are always right and cannot ever be wrong or argued with. Must be nice in there...
double irony...intended or not, this is proof of trolling. lol good read 
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On March 28 2011 22:17 Provocateur wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 09:26 l46kok wrote:On March 28 2011 09:23 psp219 wrote:On March 28 2011 09:20 l46kok wrote:
3200 Master Protoss here.
DT isn't cheese. Sure, it's cool if the Protoss goes DT and ends up killing a lot of workers, but Protoss's main goal with going DT is to be able to contain the terran while teching and expanding safely at the same time. It's basically a strategy meant for transitioning into something (Most infamously into HT shown by SanZenith in the previous GSL). Also, it prevents you from making MULES until turrets are up because you have to save the energy for scan.
I watched your replay and the problem with your play was the fact that you didn't have a single Medivac. Sure, pushing with Raven could be great, but the army size was about equal by the time you engaged, so pushing without any medivacs against mass chargelots especially with the charge buff is a suicide. This is why you always scan the enemy base before pushing. You had slightly greater economic advantage, you should've kept it and push out when your DPS is at highest in midgame (MMM). So Medivacs is the main counter to chargelots correct? (assuming there are marines/marauder Remember, gateway units are like the shittiest unit in the game. Roach/Hydra and Marine/Marauder with stim have incomparable DPS compared to the shitty gateway units. Zealot charge mitigates the shittyness to a degree, but they still need a tier 3 unit to be able to compensate for the lack of DPS vs MMM, such as Colossus or HT. (The only exception to this rule is double forge build). This is another reason why Protoss loses map control momentarily in the current metagame once Marine Marauder Medivacs are out in the map. Thats why as a protoss player, they are forced to camp in base until colossus is out, then push out to contest for map control again. In this particular game though, if I were you, along with the raven I would've made medivacs, take third base and then push out to deny protoss's third base. Gateway units, shittiest in the game? Herpaderpderp. (TSL) + Show Spoiler +Watch the shittiness of gateway units showcased in Adelscott vs MVP in the TSL In this particular game you would've been better off expanding more and harassing the protoss player with drops instead of just straightup attacking him. Also don't think too hard in the terms of direct counters, "medivacs counter chargelots?", just extending your economical advantage and getting more stuff than him would've been the best move here.
(The only exception to this rule is double forge build).
Obviously you're blind so I thought I should point this out.
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On March 29 2011 07:13 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2011 06:52 BigBossX wrote:On March 29 2011 06:50 jinorazi wrote:On March 29 2011 06:49 BigBossX wrote:
Lol, some guys didn't play/cheese/get cheesed in SC1
AM I RIGHT? not sure what you're asking :/ Learn to read then :/ sorry my english is bad and i tried reading yours, i said something of my own to point out your logic is flawed. if i'm wrong please correct me instead of just stating "learn to read". edit: i see you edited. in taht case "learn to read" does not apply since there was nothing to read. nice going. just so you know, the term "cheese" is not only for starcraft2. cheese is derived from cheater. street fighter is an example, if a player has small amount of health, the opposing player can throw a fireball as he is getting up and he has no choice to block it since he can't dodge it. since block still causes small amount of damage, killing a player in that fashion is "cheese", hence you get "C" as your victory, along with U for ultimate, S for super, etc. just stop being stubborn and stop calling legitimate strategies as cheese. even bunker rush is not cheese, but i'm sure you'll disagree with this statement.
Actually uh... C in street fighter means you killed him with Chip damage, which is damage caused through blocks...
You're right in that we call things cheese because the korean term for "cheater" sounds like cheese, but it's only from starcraft. No one in fighting games knows what cheese is.
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On March 29 2011 08:38 vicariouscheese wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2011 07:13 jinorazi wrote:On March 29 2011 06:52 BigBossX wrote:On March 29 2011 06:50 jinorazi wrote:On March 29 2011 06:49 BigBossX wrote:
Lol, some guys didn't play/cheese/get cheesed in SC1
AM I RIGHT? not sure what you're asking :/ Learn to read then :/ sorry my english is bad and i tried reading yours, i said something of my own to point out your logic is flawed. if i'm wrong please correct me instead of just stating "learn to read". edit: i see you edited. in taht case "learn to read" does not apply since there was nothing to read. nice going. just so you know, the term "cheese" is not only for starcraft2. cheese is derived from cheater. street fighter is an example, if a player has small amount of health, the opposing player can throw a fireball as he is getting up and he has no choice to block it since he can't dodge it. since block still causes small amount of damage, killing a player in that fashion is "cheese", hence you get "C" as your victory, along with U for ultimate, S for super, etc. just stop being stubborn and stop calling legitimate strategies as cheese. even bunker rush is not cheese, but i'm sure you'll disagree with this statement. Actually uh... C in street fighter means you killed him with Chip damage, which is damage caused through blocks... You're right in that we call things cheese because the korean term for "cheater" sounds like cheese, but it's only from starcraft. No one in fighting games knows what cheese is.
i swear in one of the street fighter series had a cheese icon for one of the victories.
thats why i always referred to it as cheese, excuse me if i'm wrong ^_^
edit:
"cheese wedge" icon was introduced in Street fighter alpha 2 that was given when won with blocked specials or sc move.
i guess they changed the term to chip instead of cheap, no idea.
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