EPThttp://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/155068-1v1-terran-protoss-metalopolis
TvP DT Cheese into Chargelot???
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psp219
United States315 Posts
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/155068-1v1-terran-protoss-metalopolis | ||
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Scaryman
United States70 Posts
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divito
Canada1213 Posts
That they had DTs, and had already tech'd to charge, I'm thinking there was significant delay and a different approach should have been taken. | ||
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Volka
Argentina410 Posts
You didn't have any upgrades for the battle. In fact, your EB was idle a long time, that may cost you the game I'm afraid. Other than that, game was pretty even. | ||
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Graknato
Canada7 Posts
Second, I think you should have tryed to get more ahead, just scout, expand and drop him Also, you might wanna kill off the dark shrine and council, just so that if he wants to use them, he has to reinvest in them. | ||
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Acridice
United States298 Posts
Your opening dictates how you proceed from the defense of dt rush. Just do what ever you would normally do against gateway units. There is no need to push out too soon, because you should be ahead in econ if you defended it without taking any damage. As people always say. If you're ahead get more ahead. Take another base when his rush fails. I assume you're on two base? In answer to your question. The thing is.... you CAN'T attack immediately because you don't have detection. So take a third and build up your army. You're already ahead on econ. | ||
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asd125172
United States52 Posts
DT isn't cheese. Sure, it's cool if the Protoss goes DT and ends up killing a lot of workers, but Protoss's main goal with going DT is to be able to contain the terran while teching and expanding safely at the same time. It's basically a strategy meant for transitioning into something (Most infamously into HT shown by SanZenith in the previous GSL). Also, it prevents you from making MULES until turrets are up because you have to save the energy for scan. I watched your replay and the problem with your play was the fact that you didn't have a single Medivac. Sure, pushing with Raven could be great, but the army size was about equal by the time you engaged, so pushing without any medivacs against mass chargelots especially with the charge buff is a suicide. This is why you always scan the enemy base before pushing. You had slightly greater economic advantage, you should've kept it and push out when your DPS is at highest in midgame (MMM). | ||
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psp219
United States315 Posts
On March 28 2011 09:20 l46kok wrote: 3200 Master Protoss here. DT isn't cheese. Sure, it's cool if the Protoss goes DT and ends up killing a lot of workers, but Protoss's main goal with going DT is to be able to contain the terran while teching and expanding safely at the same time. It's basically a strategy meant for transitioning into something (Most infamously into HT shown by SanZenith in the previous GSL). Also, it prevents you from making MULES until turrets are up because you have to save the energy for scan. I watched your replay and the problem with your play was the fact that you didn't have a single Medivac. Sure, pushing with Raven could be great, but the army size was about equal by the time you engaged, so pushing without any medivacs against mass chargelots especially with the charge buff is a suicide. This is why you always scan the enemy base before pushing. You had slightly greater economic advantage, you should've kept it and push out when your DPS is at highest in midgame (MMM). So Medivacs is the main counter to chargelots correct? (assuming there are marines/marauder | ||
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asd125172
United States52 Posts
On March 28 2011 09:23 psp219 wrote: So Medivacs is the main counter to chargelots correct? (assuming there are marines/marauder Remember, gateway units are like the shittiest unit in the game. Roach/Hydra and Marine/Marauder with stim have incomparable DPS compared to the shitty gateway units. Zealot charge mitigates the shittyness to a degree, but they still need a tier 3 unit to be able to compensate for the lack of DPS vs MMM, such as Colossus or HT. (The only exception to this rule is double forge build). This is another reason why Protoss loses map control momentarily in the current metagame once Marine Marauder Medivacs are out in the map. Thats why as a protoss player, they are forced to camp in base until colossus is out, then push out to contest for map control again. In this particular game though, if I were you, along with the raven I would've made medivacs, take third base and then push out to deny protoss's third base. | ||
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Geovu
Estonia1344 Posts
On March 28 2011 08:51 psp219 wrote: Hey guys I'm a 3400 diamond terran. In this one particular game the toss opened with a DT cheese. I scouted it and took almost no damage. However, when I went to go attack him his chargelots absolutely raped me even though I had the superior upgrades in that battle. After cheeses like this, how should I transition to get more ahead or should I just attack him immediately after stopping his DT cheese? http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/155068-1v1-terran-protoss-metalopolis Cheese cheese cheese cheese. By your logic I am assuming making anything tech oriented is cheese. DTs are not cheese. The point of them is so that you CAN'T get ahead of the Protoss. cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeese | ||
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Laboof
United States113 Posts
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bgalang92
United States155 Posts
So Medivacs is the main counter to chargelots correct? (assuming there are marines/marauder No... Medivacs simply help your MMM live longer against the chargelots... Have you never faced chargelots before getting to 3400 diamond? Pretty much anything that can kite counters chargelots. If you want to be so direct get banshees. Banshees "counter" zealots. | ||
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ccJroy
United States483 Posts
Its an opening, the fact that your not doing the new 24 expand with a fast engi bay and having 1 turret scares me. 99% of the terrans im facing 3500+ have one turret at there front and can stop any DT i send at them in plenty enough time with a 24 expo into mass rax play. TvP IMO is quite one sided, make 4 vikings for any colossi/VR, then get a few ghost, boom, you counter every single T3 that toss can throw at you. To be blunt, one turret, all u need to hold off the DT "Cheese" which is an opening, not cheese. Cheese = win games, opening = pressure/harass. | ||
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Barca
United States418 Posts
Scans will not be enough against a DT expand, it's plain and simple. But it goes both ways - Protoss always get observers in fear of Banshees. If you fear them enough go Raven first, or put up a turret. | ||
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hocash
United States82 Posts
On March 28 2011 13:02 justinsroy wrote: First off, saying DT "Cheese" is wrong. Its an opening, the fact that your not doing the new 24 expand with a fast engi bay and having 1 turret scares me. 99% of the terrans im facing 3500+ have one turret at there front and can stop any DT i send at them in plenty enough time with a 24 expo into mass rax play. TvP IMO is quite one sided, make 4 vikings for any colossi/VR, then get a few ghost, boom, you counter every single T3 that toss can throw at you. To be blunt, one turret, all u need to hold off the DT "Cheese" which is an opening, not cheese. Cheese = win games, opening = pressure/harass. I'm 3300 diamond Toss and I have never seen anyone do this 24 expand with fast engineering bay you're talking about. Nobody has a turret until after my dts reveal themselves. Do you have a replay of this new Terran build? Doesn't seem like it'd survive against most Toss builds like 3 gate robo. Anyone who scouts that turret will know Terran is behind quite a bit. Also doesn't prevent a delayed dt drop in which case if you're out of energy it's just about always gg. | ||
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padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
On March 28 2011 19:30 hocash wrote: I'm 3300 diamond Toss and I have never seen anyone do this 24 expand with fast engineering bay you're talking about. Nobody has a turret until after my dts reveal themselves. Do you have a replay of this new Terran build? Doesn't seem like it'd survive against most Toss builds like 3 gate robo. Anyone who scouts that turret will know Terran is behind quite a bit. Also doesn't prevent a delayed dt drop in which case if you're out of energy it's just about always gg. I'm not sure but, all the TvP games I've seen Fargo do goes for 2 rax expand in base, get eng bay and turret at ramp before expanding. Eng bay + turret is relatively cheap and fast to get, but ofc this is after OC is up on second cc. Since he blocks off first with bunker and depots if he isnt sure what tech route you are going, he is relatively safe against DTs. | ||
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FataLe
New Zealand4517 Posts
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57 Corvette
Canada5941 Posts
1. Cloakshees. Simply put, no forge no robo. GG 2. Fast Expand with turrets at nat ramp. This forces me to either abandon DTs or find another way up (Warp Prism, proxy pylon) 3. Early Marauder pressure (3 marauders 2 marines) Since you are saving your gas for DS, you are going to have only 1/no sentries to FF the ramp) If you survive the DT rush, but don't have enough of an army to go kill him, get MMM with a few ghosts and hellions mixed in. If he is going for a chargelot heavy build, blueflame roasts them alive. HTs are EMP-able along with sentries, and an energyless-shieldless protoss army is no match for terran. | ||
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Provocateur
Sweden1665 Posts
On March 28 2011 09:26 l46kok wrote: Remember, gateway units are like the shittiest unit in the game. Roach/Hydra and Marine/Marauder with stim have incomparable DPS compared to the shitty gateway units. Zealot charge mitigates the shittyness to a degree, but they still need a tier 3 unit to be able to compensate for the lack of DPS vs MMM, such as Colossus or HT. (The only exception to this rule is double forge build). This is another reason why Protoss loses map control momentarily in the current metagame once Marine Marauder Medivacs are out in the map. Thats why as a protoss player, they are forced to camp in base until colossus is out, then push out to contest for map control again. In this particular game though, if I were you, along with the raven I would've made medivacs, take third base and then push out to deny protoss's third base. Gateway units, shittiest in the game? Herpaderpderp. (TSL)+ Show Spoiler + Watch the shittiness of gateway units showcased in Adelscott vs MVP in the TSL In this particular game you would've been better off expanding more and harassing the protoss player with drops instead of just straightup attacking him. Also don't think too hard in the terms of direct counters, "medivacs counter chargelots?", just extending your economical advantage and getting more stuff than him would've been the best move here. | ||
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Antimage
Canada1293 Posts
Get charge off 4 gates, go zealot/sentry, push right in or catch him while he's out of position while expanding. It's not instant loss to banshee though versus someone with good control u'll be at a disadvantage. Also, the most straightforward transition is forge/upgrades off 2 bases, get +2/+2 while getting a much later robo. I find that works for me. But to answer your question, you should transition into standard MMM with a couple ravens. | ||
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BigBossX
United Kingdom357 Posts
Taken from liquipedia's Cheese article "A main characteristic of cheese is whatever the form, if scouted in time and answered correctly, it will almost surely fail and put the executed player at a severe disadvantage." DT's are cheese, end of story. | ||
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abominable
101 Posts
1. you always need enough sentry for at least a couple of guardian shields and at least one row of forcefields to split/negate haf of the opposing army. 2. against stim marauders you need chargelots to tank and blink stalkers to deal the damage. but DO NOT FACE MARAUDERS HEAD TO HEAD. if you don't have a good angle, superior numbers or forcefield - take few shots and blink away to safety and let shield recharge. 3. use the superior speed of your units. harrass with blink stalkers to bait the terran into attacking you, then escape. every time you force him to stim - you basically dealt 20 damage to every marauder and 10 damage to every marine... if you keep this pressure on - his medivacs will not be effective. a-moving your gateway ball into an MMM ball is like terran a-moving his hellions into roaches. | ||
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ShadowLegacy
Canada55 Posts
On March 29 2011 02:09 BigBossX wrote: DT's in SC2 are cheese, just like they were cheese in SC1, how can so many people be arguing differently? Taken from liquipedia's Cheese article "A main characteristic of cheese is whatever the form, if scouted in time and answered correctly, it will almost surely fail and put the executed player at a severe disadvantage." DT's are cheese, end of story. Learn to read ? DT into expand does not fail if scouted. They still have to wait to get a Raven to push across the map and your expo has the time to kick in. When not ALL IN it is an aggressive expo build that pins the opponent to his base while not outright killing him(It really shouldn't) You should really know what the build is before posting. Go back to page 1 and read anti-mages post. OT: MMM with Ravens. Ravens can only help you. | ||
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Yverodagny
37 Posts
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BigBossX
United Kingdom357 Posts
On March 29 2011 02:37 ShadowLegacy wrote: Learn to read ? DT into expand does not fail if scouted. They still have to wait to get a Raven to push across the map and your expo has the time to kick in. When not ALL IN it is an aggressive expo build that pins the opponent to his base while not outright killing him(It really shouldn't) You should really know what the build is before posting. Go back to page 1 and read anti-mages post. OT: MMM with Ravens. Ravens can only help you. It's funny cus you act like it takes a week and half to make a raven (considering Terran will usually do 2 rax or 3 rax tech after expand, it doesn't take long at all to get a raven), which is obviously what any decent player is going to do the second they scout dts, and then push, and since toss has invested in CHEESEY DTs (which do nothing), AND then an Expansion, they will have 0 army. Maybe you should go and read the Liquipedia article on what cheese is, cus I think it's you who needs to "learn to read". It's like you're suggesting that Cloaked Banshee's into expand isn't cheese but obviously if it's scouted, and does no damage, the Terran is behind and Z/P has an opportunity to punish the Terran, which IS simple because T invested into tech which did not pay for itself and an Expansion that shouldn't of had enough time to pay for itself either. Therefore CHEESE INTO EXPAND IS STILL CHEESE AND WILL FAIL WHEN SCOUTED VS A SEMI COMPETENT PLAYER. End of story I would also like to add that expanding behind a failed DT cheese is the dumbest thing I've ever heard .... | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
On March 29 2011 05:47 BigBossX wrote: It's funny cus you act like it takes a week and half to make a raven (considering Terran will usually do 2 rax or 3 rax tech after expand, it doesn't take long at all to get a raven), which is obviously what any decent player is going to do the second they scout dts, and then push, and since toss has invested in CHEESEY DTs (which do nothing), AND then an Expansion, they will have 0 army. Maybe you should go and read the Liquipedia article on what cheese is, cus I think it's you who needs to "learn to read". It's like you're suggesting that Cloaked Banshee's into expand isn't cheese but obviously if it's scouted, and does no damage, the Terran is behind and Z/P has an opportunity to punish the Terran, which IS simple because T invested into tech which did not pay for itself and an Expansion that shouldn't of had enough time to pay for itself either. Therefore CHEESE INTO EXPAND IS STILL CHEESE AND WILL FAIL WHEN SCOUTED VS A SEMI COMPETENT PLAYER. End of story I would also like to add that expanding behind a failed DT cheese is the dumbest thing I've ever heard .... i see, so if protoss goes for DT and doesn't work because of turrets, and while terran is getting raven to move out, protoss should keep making DT because thats the strategy right?  i dont understand how "cheese" is used to define strategies :/ in this sense, i guess anything other than a defensive strategy is cheese since if scouted, it'll fail or countered or whatever. old defiinition of cheese: 6 pool early rax marine + scv proxy gate new definition of cheese: 4gate banshee dt mutalisk etc. am i right? | ||
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BigBossX
United Kingdom357 Posts
AM I RIGHT? Let me reiterate: Taken from liquipedia's Cheese article "A main characteristic of cheese is whatever the form, if scouted in time and answered correctly, it will almost surely fail and put the executed player at a severe disadvantage." So, if a DT rush fails, you're at a severe disadvantage, if a 4 gate fails you are at a severe disadvantage, if a 6 pool fails you are at a severe disadvantage. You guys catching on a little now? | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
On March 29 2011 06:49 BigBossX wrote: Lol, some guys didn't play/cheese/get cheesed in SC1 AM I RIGHT? not sure what you're asking :/ | ||
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BigBossX
United Kingdom357 Posts
Learn to read then :/ | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10366 Posts
So Medivacs is the main counter to chargelots correct? (assuming there are marines/marauder They're not the counter, but when you compare Barracks + Upgrades (Stim, Concussive, Combat Shield) to Gateway + Upgrades (Charge, Blink) the fight is actually pretty equal, especially considering how a Terran bio army is much weaker after the first fight since they don't have Medivacs. But once you add Medivacs, then of course the MMM will be better, but that is because the army itself is "higher tech". To be "equal" Toss would then also need more tech meaning Colossi, Immortals, Forge Upgrades (especially ground armor), etc. So simply put, it is not really a counter but it will make a more advanced army. And yeah, DT "cheese" isn't cheese. It's just a DT. Same with any other kind of midgame harass. @BigBossX Liquipedia isn't god. Also, if you read the note above the definition, it will also say how the definition might not even be accurate, but is the best they (or he) can come up with. For example you could say any all-in is not cheese because as long as you do enough damage, even if you "fail", meaning you don't kill him outright, you might not be at a "severe disadvantage". For example if you SCV-All in with 2 Rax and lose all your SCVs but deny the Zerg's expansion, and already have 10 more SCVs at home while he only has 10-15 drones at his base, it is roughly equal depending on marine/rax/overlord/zergling count. | ||
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Acridice
United States298 Posts
On March 29 2011 06:49 BigBossX wrote: Lol, some guys didn't play/cheese/get cheesed in SC1 AM I RIGHT? Let me reiterate: Taken from liquipedia's Cheese article "A main characteristic of cheese is whatever the form, if scouted in time and answered correctly, it will almost surely fail and put the executed player at a severe disadvantage." So, if a DT rush fails, you're at a severe disadvantage, if a 4 gate fails you are at a severe disadvantage, if a 6 pool fails you are at a severe disadvantage. You guys catching on a little now? You are not at a sever disadvantage when DT rush fails. The only time this is the case is if he went straight to raven. Then yes, you are pretty behind, but the same could go for any other build that gets hard countered. That is also why you don't necessarily do this to a 1 base tech terran. You're better off doing it against a 1-3 rax terran. Then, even if he puts blind turrets up due to suspicion, you're still fine. He can't move out until he gets a raven. Meanwhile, you're expanding and getting charge and possibly teching to temps. Just watch sanZenith in the last GSL. Pretty sure he did dt's and got totally denied. Who won? San.... | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
sorry my english is bad and i tried reading yours, i said something of my own to point out your logic is flawed. if i'm wrong please correct me instead of just stating "learn to read". edit: i see you edited. in taht case "learn to read" does not apply since there was nothing to read. nice going. just so you know, the term "cheese" is not only for starcraft2. cheese is derived from cheater. street fighter is an example, if a player has small amount of health, the opposing player can throw a fireball as he is getting up and he has no choice to block it since he can't dodge it. since block still causes small amount of damage, killing a player in that fashion is "cheese", hence you get "C" as your victory, along with U for ultimate, S for super, etc. just stop being stubborn and stop calling legitimate strategies as cheese. even bunker rush is not cheese, but i'm sure you'll disagree with this statement. | ||
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Acridice
United States298 Posts
On March 29 2011 07:13 jinorazi wrote: sorry my english is bad and i tried reading yours, i said something of my own to point out your logic is flawed. if i'm wrong please correct me instead of just stating "learn to read". edit: i see you edited. in taht case "learn to read" does not apply since there was nothing to read. nice going. You are correct. Considering Bigboss is the one who speaks english, it is sad that your english is better than his. The sentence "Some guys didn't play/cheese/get cheesed in SC1" is complete and utter nonsense. Who the hell knows what that's supposed to mean. | ||
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BigBossX
United Kingdom357 Posts
Example, Toss 1 base DT rushes into expand, Terran 1 rax FE's, drops 1 more rax and techs to starport, scans DT tech, drops ebay, drops turrets at choke, denies DT entry to base (deals 0 damage), drops another rax or 2, builds raven as soon as starport done, Terran pushes, rally-in reinforcements, GG. DT rush is cheese, when it fails (and i do mean completely fails, as in not getting warped directly into the main and sniping 2-5 scvs or forcing scvs off min line) P is sooo far behind unless his opponent makes huge mistakes, the game is over. End of story | ||
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BigBossX
United Kingdom357 Posts
On March 29 2011 07:18 Acridice wrote: You are correct. Considering Bigboss is the one who speaks english, it is sad that your english is better than his. The sentence "Some guys didn't play/cheese/get cheesed in SC1" is complete and utter nonsense. Who the hell knows what that's supposed to mean. Lol maybe you are too dumb to understand, but quite clearly I said some guys didn't PLAY OR CHEESE OR GET CHEESED IN SC1, maybe it's your own English that is the problem if you didn't understand that. | ||
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BigBossX
United Kingdom357 Posts
On March 29 2011 07:06 Acridice wrote: You are not at a sever disadvantage when DT rush fails. The only time this is the case is if he went straight to raven. Then yes, you are pretty behind, but the same could go for any other build that gets hard countered. That is also why you don't necessarily do this to a 1 base tech terran. You're better off doing it against a 1-3 rax terran. Then, even if he puts blind turrets up due to suspicion, you're still fine. He can't move out until he gets a raven. Meanwhile, you're expanding and getting charge and possibly teching to temps. Just watch sanZenith in the last GSL. Pretty sure he did dt's and got totally denied. Who won? San.... Hands down dumbest thing I have ever had the misfortune of reading, I'm not even going to bother explaining why, you are clearly too dumb to understand anyway. | ||
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Acridice
United States298 Posts
On March 29 2011 07:19 BigBossX wrote: Lol, the way you guys twist this to make your own point seemingly valid is ridiculous. The bottom line is when you invest in a strategy on 1 base that is aimed at dealing severe damage to your opponent, but your opponent scouts it and it deals zero damage, you are at a severe disadvantage and the game is usually over already. Example, Toss 1 base DT rushes into expand, Terran 1 rax FE's, drops 1 more rax and techs to starport, scans DT tech, drops ebay, drops turrets at choke, denies DT entry to base (deals 0 damage), drops another rax or 2, builds raven as soon as starport done, Terran pushes, rally-in reinforcements, GG. DT rush is cheese, when it fails (and i do mean completely fails, as in not getting warped directly into the main and sniping 2-5 scvs or forcing scvs off min line) P is sooo far behind unless his opponent makes huge mistakes, the game is over. End of story Just watch sanZenith, and the pro will prove you wrong. I think everyone is tired of arguing with your skewed logic. You're timings and theory crafting is all wrong. http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors2/vod/62509 So please... quit the qq, and get schooled by the vid. | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
On March 29 2011 07:20 BigBossX wrote: Lol maybe you are too dumb to understand, but quite clearly I said some guys didn't PLAY OR CHEESE OR GET CHEESED IN SC1, maybe it's your own English that is the problem if you didn't understand that. "some guys didn't play or cheese or get cheesed in sc1", see that doesnt make sense. i'm guessing you're trying to say "some guys didn't play sc1" in some elaborate fashion. since sc1 is a strategy game just like sc2 and "cheese" in your term is "strategies with potential drawbacks". | ||
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Acridice
United States298 Posts
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Kyuki
Sweden1867 Posts
The best advice to the op would be to look at how you actually handle the DTs and how much damage they did vs how much time they bought, and if you killed them or not. Transition into whatever normal play you'd planned before unless you for some reason take heavy damage, or you catch the DTs completly offguard and kill them quickly without doing anything (i.e not surviving). This gives You time to either tech or expand, but I'd prefer expanding while adding +1 attack. You just have to approach it like you would with any type of tech play that is not meant to kill you (banshee, phoenix, DT etc). | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45092 Posts
On March 28 2011 22:26 Antimage wrote: DT openings aren't cheese. They're perfeclty viable, and it's a strategy I like to use when the distance to my opponent is far. I'd open one gate twilight-dark shrine, get 4 gates, then get a nexus/forge while attacking with 2 or 3 DT's. One cannon in my mineral line and if he gets a banshee, then I get a robo and an ob. Get charge off 4 gates, go zealot/sentry, push right in or catch him while he's out of position while expanding. It's not instant loss to banshee though versus someone with good control u'll be at a disadvantage. Also, the most straightforward transition is forge/upgrades off 2 bases, get +2/+2 while getting a much later robo. I find that works for me. But to answer your question, you should transition into standard MMM with a couple ravens. This. Marine cheese, marauder cheese, and medivac cheese is the way to take out the gateway units (especially without forcefields). And get out a cheesy raven or two just in case he (appropriately) re-creates a cheesy dark templar or two. He would really need to get out some high templar swiss or some fine colossus cheddar to deal with your MMM (munster, monterey, and mozzarella). Edit: Oh God I'm so hungry from posting this comment. | ||
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ssregitoss
Turkey241 Posts
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BigBossX
United Kingdom357 Posts
That was quite an epic game, but doesn't prove your point in the slightest. Did scfou tech directly to raven after scouting dts (around 20 minutes in he makes first raven?) no he did not, could he? yes (could have cut a few units to start that factory), did he have a significantly larger army size? yes. If he had got that raven asap and pushed the main instead of the nat, would the game have played out differently? most likely. BTW in the example game, I wasn't providing timings, but in the game you presented yourself, scfou had enough time to drop the ebay and turret up, and he could have fast teched to raven and pushed the main. It's funny that you present a game where the terran didn't respond correctly to the DT cheese. God damn this forum has gone to shit TT Whatever nerds, enjoy living in your ignorant bubbles where you are always right and cannot ever be wrong or argued with. Must be nice in there... User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Acridice
United States298 Posts
On March 29 2011 07:35 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: This. Marine cheese, marauder cheese, and medivac cheese is the way to take out the gateway units (especially without forcefields). And get out a cheesy raven or two just in case he (appropriately) re-creates a cheesy dark templar or two. He would really need to get out some high templar swiss or some fine colossus cheddar to deal with your MMM (munster, monterey, and mozzarella). Edit: Oh God I'm so hungry from posting this comment. Haha I like this /ignore BigBossX | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
On March 29 2011 07:36 BigBossX wrote: LOL. That was quite an epic game, but doesn't prove your point in the slightest. Did scfou tech directly to raven after scouting dts (around 20 minutes in he makes first raven?) no he did not, could he? yes (could have cut a few units to start that factory), did he have a significantly larger army size? yes. If he had got that raven asap and pushed the main instead of the nat, would the game have played out differently? most likely. BTW in the example game, I wasn't providing timings, but in the game you presented yourself, scfou had enough time to drop the ebay and turret up, and he could have fast teched to raven and pushed the main. It's funny that you present a game where the terran didn't respond correctly to the DT cheese. God damn this forum has gone to shit TT Whatever nerds, enjoy living in your ignorant bubbles where you are always right and cannot ever be wrong or argued with. Must be nice in there... double irony...intended or not, this is proof of trolling. lol good read | ||
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asd125172
United States52 Posts
On March 28 2011 22:17 Provocateur wrote: Gateway units, shittiest in the game? Herpaderpderp. (TSL)+ Show Spoiler + Watch the shittiness of gateway units showcased in Adelscott vs MVP in the TSL In this particular game you would've been better off expanding more and harassing the protoss player with drops instead of just straightup attacking him. Also don't think too hard in the terms of direct counters, "medivacs counter chargelots?", just extending your economical advantage and getting more stuff than him would've been the best move here. (The only exception to this rule is double forge build). Obviously you're blind so I thought I should point this out. | ||
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vicariouscheese
United States589 Posts
On March 29 2011 07:13 jinorazi wrote: sorry my english is bad and i tried reading yours, i said something of my own to point out your logic is flawed. if i'm wrong please correct me instead of just stating "learn to read". edit: i see you edited. in taht case "learn to read" does not apply since there was nothing to read. nice going. just so you know, the term "cheese" is not only for starcraft2. cheese is derived from cheater. street fighter is an example, if a player has small amount of health, the opposing player can throw a fireball as he is getting up and he has no choice to block it since he can't dodge it. since block still causes small amount of damage, killing a player in that fashion is "cheese", hence you get "C" as your victory, along with U for ultimate, S for super, etc. just stop being stubborn and stop calling legitimate strategies as cheese. even bunker rush is not cheese, but i'm sure you'll disagree with this statement. Actually uh... C in street fighter means you killed him with Chip damage, which is damage caused through blocks... You're right in that we call things cheese because the korean term for "cheater" sounds like cheese, but it's only from starcraft. No one in fighting games knows what cheese is. | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
On March 29 2011 08:38 vicariouscheese wrote: Actually uh... C in street fighter means you killed him with Chip damage, which is damage caused through blocks... You're right in that we call things cheese because the korean term for "cheater" sounds like cheese, but it's only from starcraft. No one in fighting games knows what cheese is. i swear in one of the street fighter series had a cheese icon for one of the victories. thats why i always referred to it as cheese, excuse me if i'm wrong ^_^ edit: "cheese wedge" icon was introduced in Street fighter alpha 2 that was given when won with blocked specials or sc move. i guess they changed the term to chip instead of cheap, no idea. | ||
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