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On October 12 2010 07:09 KaoReal wrote:http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Polt_timing_attack_(vs._Protoss)Polt timing attack, comes with reactor rines and marauders in constant production, with stim, 2 banshees, and a raven with PDD at your base @ 10 minutes. It is far too much infantry for you to try to squeeze some phoenix out. This build is actually designed to kill protoss who get a colossus to deal with the reactor'd rines. If you dont get the colossus, you die to rines. If you do, you're too committed to get anything to deal with banshees or PDD. Anyone know the protoss solution to this one yeT?
The fast templar/forge build can stop the polt timing attack. You can have a couple templar with storm, you can feedback the air units and storm the bio and do pretty well.
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On October 12 2010 07:14 iEchoic wrote:
The fast templar/forge build can stop the polt timing attack. You can have a couple templar with storm, you can feedback the air units and storm the bio and do pretty well.
Do you have any info or links to this build? Search function doesn't yield anything.
What is the forge for? Are you supposed to drop cannons as a replacement for the units that you won't get because of the quick tech up?
Templar definitely seem like the best solution to this, I'm just unsure of the timing and ordering. Replays?
edit: Also, does this build have to be done blind? Like without robofac? While there are a couple indicators of a polt attack coming, one cannot be sure that is the case unless one has an obs to spot the raven coming out.
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On October 12 2010 07:14 iEchoic wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2010 07:09 KaoReal wrote:http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Polt_timing_attack_(vs._Protoss)Polt timing attack, comes with reactor rines and marauders in constant production, with stim, 2 banshees, and a raven with PDD at your base @ 10 minutes. It is far too much infantry for you to try to squeeze some phoenix out. This build is actually designed to kill protoss who get a colossus to deal with the reactor'd rines. If you dont get the colossus, you die to rines. If you do, you're too committed to get anything to deal with banshees or PDD. Anyone know the protoss solution to this one yeT? The fast templar/forge build can stop the polt timing attack. You can have a couple templar with storm, you can feedback the air units and storm the bio and do pretty well.
Any guides/replays on this build you're mentioning? Had exams so haven't kept up and this seems a new thing.
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Thanks for the Polt build ( :
I guess Im going to try it soon - I really like banshees in my army against toss and zerg
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If you do the 1 gate FE build and micro correctly and get out the correct units you should be able to hold this push just fine. Generally even if you get a robo before the templars you should have 1 or 2 templars out by the time he pushes with storm reasearching (this is if you skip charge for a bit since you wont need it with no rauders out). Feedback the raven before he gets the pdd off and if u micro correctly you should be able to hold this push off. Feedbacking the raven (and if storm isnt ready the banshees) is probobly the most crucial part about this. I'll see if i can find any replays of this that ive recently played. Tbh ive found the rine/thor push in 1800+ diomand to be much harder to hold off when u 1 gate FE.
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As this game is so young, there is little experimentation in protoss builds using stargate AND robo.. it always seems to be one or the other. The spending in such a build is very awkward, I will admit. But lately vs terran I will always gate-core-robo chrono observer, and if you scout the ports, immediately throw down a stargate. Phoenixes funnily enough rip banshees a new one as they are light armoured. This shuts down the harass nicely, and means you can handle drops well later. Then, against the marines some zealots and sentries for guardian shield (VITAL against large marine numbers) and FF if you have the energy will stop this push cold. The only problem is you will be 1-basing for quite a while, and the terran is likely to expand as he pushes. So you should aim to CRUSH the push in order to have made any gain.
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On October 12 2010 07:18 KaoReal wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2010 07:14 iEchoic wrote:
The fast templar/forge build can stop the polt timing attack. You can have a couple templar with storm, you can feedback the air units and storm the bio and do pretty well. Do you have any info or links to this build?
On October 12 2010 07:20 Yaotzin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2010 07:14 iEchoic wrote:On October 12 2010 07:09 KaoReal wrote:http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Polt_timing_attack_(vs._Protoss)Polt timing attack, comes with reactor rines and marauders in constant production, with stim, 2 banshees, and a raven with PDD at your base @ 10 minutes. It is far too much infantry for you to try to squeeze some phoenix out. This build is actually designed to kill protoss who get a colossus to deal with the reactor'd rines. If you dont get the colossus, you die to rines. If you do, you're too committed to get anything to deal with banshees or PDD. Anyone know the protoss solution to this one yeT? The fast templar/forge build can stop the polt timing attack. You can have a couple templar with storm, you can feedback the air units and storm the bio and do pretty well. Any guides/replays on this build you're mentioning? Had exams so haven't kept up and this seems a new thing.
I don't know of any guides, but you can check out this replay of me losing to it. It looks like he held out on the forge until later, but either way, this works.
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-156890.jpg)
I didn't do the polt timing push but I've played this build many times and I know it doesn't work against it because I've tried. Note the 2 templar with storm at 10:00. I start playing badly near the end because I'm trying new compositions against templar spam, but you get the point.
On October 12 2010 07:39 LtLolburger wrote:
The only problem is you will be 1-basing for quite a while, and the terran is likely to expand as he pushes. So you should aim to CRUSH the push in order to have made any gain.
You're right here - but it doesn't actually make a difference because TvP lategame is pretty lopsided in favor of P. A lot of P players are starting to realize they can enter the lategame with an economic disadvantage and make up for it with their lategame composition strength.
Hope that helps.
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On October 12 2010 07:34 Bandino wrote:
If you do the 1 gate FE build and micro correctly and get out the correct units you should be able to hold this push just fine. Generally even if you get a robo before the templars you should have 1 or 2 templars out by the time he pushes with storm reasearching (this is if you skip charge for a bit since you wont need it with no rauders out). Feedback the raven before he gets the pdd off and if u micro correctly you should be able to hold this push off. Feedbacking the raven (and if storm isnt ready the banshees) is probobly the most crucial part about this. I'll see if i can find any replays of this that ive recently played. Tbh ive found the rine/thor push in 1800+ diomand to be much harder to hold off when u 1 gate FE.
In my experience, 1 gate FE doesn't get an obs at the terran's base to scout this until about 9 minutes. This leaves you with approx. one minute to get your teching done.
With full chronoboosting, it takes almost three minutes to get templar with storm. Storm is essential to dealing with an infantry ball of that size with stim.
I must be doing something really wrong with my ordering, so if you can find those replays, I would be very thankful ^^
TY
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Well heres one I got in like 10 minutes. Terrans sure love this push. The push comes at around 10 minues (he got a viking to snipe the obs which you will sometimes encounter in the push). AndIn my experience, 1 gate FE doesn't get an obs at the terran's base to scout this until about 9 minutes.
You dont have to have an obs in his base to knows whats coming. Poke a probe around if you see mass marines you have a pretty good idea of what is coming.
Heres the replay as promised (im 1900 so its not gooing to be pro but it wont be some gold game either)
http://www.mediafire.com/?v7esh8w1nc3r115
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On October 12 2010 07:04 iAmJeffReY wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2010 04:56 whoopadeedoo wrote:If you guys say so  It doesn't work at 1500+ diamond. It is, as I said, epic fail. Too many things in Terran's arsenal steamroll one base gateway units. I'm 1500, and I lose ONLY (games under 10 min) to outright 4 gate play. Same guy beat me twice with 4 wgate rushes today. I even know its coming. Banshee tech is weak against a well placed forward plyon and constant warp in damage. Constantly change what you warp. He gets more maras, get almost straight zealots and eat up the maras. Banshees can't do enough damage when you have to kite with protoss in your base or at your door
100% agree. I've been demolished by well timed 4 gate pushes. Usually its the heavy gas 4 gate stalker sentry mix. Marines and hellions get steamrolled by this composition. Again the push must come early when there are only a couple banshees out.
Another build I've lost to is the forge FE --> VR. Cannons at the mineral lines and front entrance. Hellion drop nullified. Then the banshee tech gets rolled by VR. Sure the rines can counter VR but with a FE you can hit VR critical mass before T gets enough rines to counter
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On October 12 2010 08:21 Bandino wrote:Well heres one I got in like 10 minutes. Terrans sure love this push. The push comes at around 10 minues (he got a viking to snipe the obs which you will sometimes encounter in the push). And Show nested quote +In my experience, 1 gate FE doesn't get an obs at the terran's base to scout this until about 9 minutes. You dont have to have an obs in his base to knows whats coming. Poke a probe around if you see mass marines you have a pretty good idea of what is coming. Heres the replay as promised (im 1900 so its not gooing to be pro but it wont be some gold game either) http://www.mediafire.com/?v7esh8w1nc3r115
just 8x'd it, and wow! thats a very nice looking build you have there, though i've seen 1100 terrans play better than he did in that game. i dont know if he was just using a bad build or what, but the ones ive been looking at are about 20 food higher at 10 minutes, though they dont have the viking. i really don't think the viking is worth saccing that much food for, but then again, 20 more food of infantry isnt going to do a lot vs templar
thx for the replay, going to take a closer look at it now.
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just 8x'd it, and wow! thats a very nice looking build you have there, though i've seen 1100 terrans play better than he did in that game. i dont know if he was just using a bad build or what, but the ones ive been looking at are about 20 food higher at 10 minutes, though they dont have the viking. i really don't think the viking is worth saccing that much food for, but then again, 20 more food of infantry isnt going to do a lot vs templar
thx for the replay, going to take a closer look at it now.
Ya wont lie to you there he definantly wasnt the most talented terran, but eh its ladder. Ya some people like the viking thought to snipe the obs thats also why its good to feedback the Raven. If you wana run some games thought or just talk anything else over just talk to me on bnet (US) Bandino.322
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On October 12 2010 06:48 skatbone wrote:
Alaric, I agree, in that I have little trouble fending off Void Rays using iechoic's 1/1/2. But I do find that Phoenix are effective counters. I don't know what modification you make to the build, but the traditional 1/1/2 does not have stim for the first timing attack.
If I move out with four banshees (without cloak), 12 rines, a medivac, and a hellion or two, a toss army with 3 phoenixes, heavy zealots (to take out rines), a few stalkers, and a sentry or two handles the attack well. If I face this sort of composition, we usually trade armies and commence massing off of two bases.
I usually get the techlab when I start producing my first two banshees, then research stim asap. It's not ready for the push everytime (I usually wait for 5 banshees, perhaps a little more or specifically stim according to what the drop saw and the protoss' reaction — if I kill too many probes I don't push immediatly in case of an all-in desperation counterattack, for example).
I lost a game earlier this evening (2 AM here in France), but it was on Scrap Station and my opponent went colossus, then quite a few (~6 ?) sentries. On the timing of my push, I has to instead "wait" for him as we were both trying to cross the rock-freed short path and fighting on the bridge against colossus is suicide, so we fought on my side of the map and my margin wasn't broad enough to kill him immediatly afterwards.
The rest of the game was me failing at caughting him off guard and him abusing force fields and the lack of open areas of the map to obliterate my ground bio before I could get his colossi. So I guess it was pretty situational, and me failing to use drops to counter his map control.
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I'm not the best protoss ever, but in my experience against 1/1/2 banshee, just go fucking kill him, is a pretty solid counter, 3 gate with one immortal will break the wall, obs to get concave on the ramp ^^.
but might not work at higher level diamond.
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Just do 1 gate->cyber->robo. If he has techlab make an immortal before observer if not go str8 for observer.
If you scout him going some marine banchee 3-1-2 you can get out phoenix and collusus (wihtout range) before his push arrives. This is completely onesided and any terran who has experienced this will stop making this build ever again ^^
I really feel like 1 gate robo is the best build vs terran and easiest, since you can just react to whatever the observer shows you.
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wow a lot of helpful and positive comments at the moment rushing to templars for feedback seem the most logical choice of transition off the 1gate fe build
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As this game is so young, there is little experimentation in protoss builds using stargate AND robo.. it always seems to be one or the other. The spending in such a build is very awkward, I will admit. But lately vs terran I will always gate-core-robo chrono observer, and if you scout the ports, immediately throw down a stargate. I never have probelms with banshees if i've survived long enough to get a robo out. The problem comes with hellions do virtually any damage to my base. I swear if i lose 2-4 probes i don't have enough minerals for stalkers or enough gas for observers.
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On October 12 2010 10:37 Ender Wiggin wrote:
wow a lot of helpful and positive comments at the moment rushing to templars for feedback seem the most logical choice of transition off the 1gate fe build
If you're doing 1 gate FE, templars is not the way to go. The only way to get HTs to work is if you double gas quickly, and 1 gate FE relies on one gas for a very long time. Seriously, just go stargate/phoenix if you scout tech lab starport.
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On October 12 2010 10:49 whoopadeedoo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2010 10:37 Ender Wiggin wrote:
wow a lot of helpful and positive comments at the moment rushing to templars for feedback seem the most logical choice of transition off the 1gate fe build If you're doing 1 gate FE, templars is not the way to go. The only way to get HTs to work is if you double gas quickly, and 1 gate FE relies on one gas for a very long time. Seriously, just go stargate/phoenix if you scout tech lab starport.
check out the 2nd replay posted, he demonstrates that templar can be the way to go... one thing i noticed though is that he gets his nexus VERY early even for a 1 gate FE, which leaves him super light on units for a while.
edit: http://www.mediafire.com/?v7esh8w1nc3r115 i think its this one
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Hmmm. that replay breaks my sc/computer for some reason. It activates my keyboards shortcut keys so pressing "e" (for example) will open up my windows explorer. O.o
I can't see how you get enough gas off one geyser to build HTs (even without robo/ob, which you absolutely need) unless you forego stalkers. I would love to see the replay though, but it's not working.
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EPT
