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Z-boson (or anyone else) could you explain to me in greater detail what ochrow's lie was? You said it was in his aug 17 5:54 post. I haven't seen anything that qualifies as a lie but if there is a lie, I'd like to know because I think if someone is caught in a lie they should be lynched. I'm going to go through that post and bold anything that seems weird.
Ochrow's post + Show Spoiler +On August 17 2012 05:54 Ochrow wrote:On Archrun: Well for starters I am going to go ahead and ##Unvote. For while I'm still suspicious of Archrun for reasons very similar to those posted above, he was very lurky at a time that I didn't feel like I had any good scum reads (yes shady that means I didn't agree with your witch hunts but that doesn't make me scum. . . ) and once he finally stopped lurking I didn't feel his post carried much weight and so I felt that it was just a filler post pointing out some random person to make him seem less suspicious, I don't feel I have enough to vote him at the moment. Now before people start saying that I am flip flopping and that is scum behavior or whatever that argument is I would just like to point out my reasoning for voting Arch because it is somewhat separate from my reasoning for suspecting him. The reason I went and changed my FoS to a Vote was because I really had no idea how much time we had left, I unfortunately have no perception of the passage of time so I thought that the game had already been going on for long enough that the end might come while I was asleep which it almost did as I only just woke up. And so I wanted to make sure I voted as required. On shady: At the moment I can't be sure if Shady is scum or just crazy aggressive townie though at the moment I am leaning slightly towards townie for the same reasoning I used earlier in the game: Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 05:27 Ochrow wrote:
My two cents on Shady:
My initial inclination when I see somebody being as aggressive as he is, this coming only from live games not forum, is that they are scum. However, every single time that I have been in this sort of situation and gotten a scum vibe from somebody being overly aggressive I have been wrong. So for me that history has me thinking that that Shady is town, just an incredibly aggressive one. However at the same time I think that he may be a bit overly aggressive and reading too much into people's posts, as he has made two rather strong accusations against Solar and JHyut that I feel are more or less unfounded. However I do feel that his aggressiveness has progressed to a point where it is almost damaging. The case that he laid down on Thrawn and I was not much different from his original argument against Solar, it was based off of little evidence (oh they both posted at the same time and the second guy read the first ones post and had insider information because he restated stuff that Ochrow had said in a PUBLIC forum) and Shady attacked it with a witch hunt mentality. It seems that Shady is like a shark waiting to smell blood and as soon as he does he just attacks immediately, at least that is the way it seems to me. But nonetheless I still don't feel that this is necessarily scum play, just bad play, but if we don't find any really solid scum (I am not currently sold on any of the reads as I will explain below) I can see him as a potentially good lynch. On Thrawn: I really can't get a read on Thrawn. To be honest when I first read Shady's post I almost instantly began to feel that Thrawn was scum but after reading his defense I do not think that he is. But I will say that I find him a bit too sheepish. It seems to me that anytime he a read that might be right he just jumps on the bandwagon without posting much of anything different unless heavily prodded, so I feel that this is something we need to look out for because it does feel somewhat scummy. On the case against Thrawn and I: I feel like once again Shady is reading too much into things. As far as the combined case claiming that we are both scum and are working together goes it is based almost entirely off of the timing of our post and the fact that Thrawn copied what I said. However, saying that we are obviously working together makes no sense when it is based purely off of the fact that the second person, in this case Thrawn, merely rewords a public post that I made. I can understand why you would be a bit suspicious, but by your logic one scum could just go around copying and rewording the posts of every person in the game and would therefore have to be in secret contact with every single one of them. The fact of the matter is that there was no insider information that was shared all that happened was that Thrawn piggybacked on somebody else's post and just agree with them. As for my fair and balanced posts or however it was that Shady described them, I simply have not been able to divine that much from what most people are saying, though I will admit to being a timid poster. But at the moment I don't feel I have solid reads on pretty much anyone and so the result of that is I try not to alienate people, though I understand why Shady would be suspicious of that because his goal seems to be to piss off everybody and alienate them all. On YourHarry: As far as the stuff from early on goes I believe his explanation in that he had a mason misread and I think that was it, and as I said before while he was posting very short messages he really didn't appear to have much to say outside of those short messages, but going by his posting history it looks like as soon as he started to get actual reads he began to post them. I feel that his swingyness is suspicious and that his posts haven't been great, particularly the case against GK, but I don't really get a scum read from him. On JHuyt: At the moment he and Golbat are on the top of the Lurker List but I don't have much more than that. However, I don't feel that Archrun's case against him has any merit in light of what Solar has said about his history, and I felt the same way before anyways. On Golbat: I can't really get much of a read because he does only have two posts and even in those two posts he doesn't really do much. He has a one line accusation of thrawn and a few really short reads on people that have been pointed out as big suspects but it is so little that I can't really pull much from it but I don't think he is scum but if he only does two posts a day then I'm tempted to lynch just to narrow things down. So just to wrap it up my top choices for lynches would be Arch, Golbat, and Shady in that order. But I do not feel strongly about the Shady lynch at all, I just think that if he keeps up his witch hunt mentality it could be damaging. So primarily I feel we should lynch Arch or Golbat, Arch for my earlier reasoning and pretty much the same stuff that Stutters said and Golbat for being a lurker.
The first bold edit is an odd thing to say as it sounds like he is already trying to preempt counter arguments, but I think a town player could have done it. The only weird thing about it is its close proximity to the 2nd bold edit, which I honestly have no idea what to make of on it's own. But seeing as how they are two strange comments close to each other and regarding the same topic, it makes me a little suspicious that they are excuses (scum statements) rather than reasons (town statements.)
The third bold edit when he's talking about me: "It seems to me that anytime he a read that might be right he just jumps on the bandwagon without posting much of anything different unless heavily prodded." This is just not true. Either ochrow is misrepresenting me, or he didn't read the thread. He made this statement after I voted for shady, and that was anything but a bandwagon vote. In fact a lot of people have described it as an OMGUS vote. I can't see how anyone could say I've been bandwagoning if they've read my reasons for voting.
On the next bold edit: ("The fact of the matter is that there was no insider information that was shared all that happened was that Thrawn piggybacked on somebody else's post and just agree with them.") The context for this was defending the accusation that he and I were sharing a qt. He says that "Thrawn piggybacked on somebody else's post." To me this seems like a bad argument and possibly him trying to deflect everyone onto my case. To say "the fact of the matter" is a very strongly and clearly worded statement that expresses that whatever claim comes next is undeniable truth. Why would ochrow's defense of the "thrawn/ochrow share a qt" claim be him saying that the only possible explanation is that I piggybacked onto his claim? This strikes me as a suspicious defense.
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On August 19 2012 07:01 thrawn2112 wrote:Z-boson (or anyone else) could you explain to me in greater detail what ochrow's lie was? You said it was in his aug 17 5:54 post. I haven't seen anything that qualifies as a lie but if there is a lie, I'd like to know because I think if someone is caught in a lie they should be lynched. I'm going to go through that post and bold anything that seems weird. Ochrow's post + Show Spoiler +On August 17 2012 05:54 Ochrow wrote:On Archrun: Well for starters I am going to go ahead and ##Unvote. For while I'm still suspicious of Archrun for reasons very similar to those posted above, he was very lurky at a time that I didn't feel like I had any good scum reads (yes shady that means I didn't agree with your witch hunts but that doesn't make me scum. . . ) and once he finally stopped lurking I didn't feel his post carried much weight and so I felt that it was just a filler post pointing out some random person to make him seem less suspicious, I don't feel I have enough to vote him at the moment. Now before people start saying that I am flip flopping and that is scum behavior or whatever that argument is I would just like to point out my reasoning for voting Arch because it is somewhat separate from my reasoning for suspecting him. The reason I went and changed my FoS to a Vote was because I really had no idea how much time we had left, I unfortunately have no perception of the passage of time so I thought that the game had already been going on for long enough that the end might come while I was asleep which it almost did as I only just woke up. And so I wanted to make sure I voted as required. On shady: At the moment I can't be sure if Shady is scum or just crazy aggressive townie though at the moment I am leaning slightly towards townie for the same reasoning I used earlier in the game: Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 05:27 Ochrow wrote:
My two cents on Shady:
My initial inclination when I see somebody being as aggressive as he is, this coming only from live games not forum, is that they are scum. However, every single time that I have been in this sort of situation and gotten a scum vibe from somebody being overly aggressive I have been wrong. So for me that history has me thinking that that Shady is town, just an incredibly aggressive one. However at the same time I think that he may be a bit overly aggressive and reading too much into people's posts, as he has made two rather strong accusations against Solar and JHyut that I feel are more or less unfounded. However I do feel that his aggressiveness has progressed to a point where it is almost damaging. The case that he laid down on Thrawn and I was not much different from his original argument against Solar, it was based off of little evidence (oh they both posted at the same time and the second guy read the first ones post and had insider information because he restated stuff that Ochrow had said in a PUBLIC forum) and Shady attacked it with a witch hunt mentality. It seems that Shady is like a shark waiting to smell blood and as soon as he does he just attacks immediately, at least that is the way it seems to me. But nonetheless I still don't feel that this is necessarily scum play, just bad play, but if we don't find any really solid scum (I am not currently sold on any of the reads as I will explain below) I can see him as a potentially good lynch. On Thrawn: I really can't get a read on Thrawn. To be honest when I first read Shady's post I almost instantly began to feel that Thrawn was scum but after reading his defense I do not think that he is. But I will say that I find him a bit too sheepish. It seems to me that anytime he a read that might be right he just jumps on the bandwagon without posting much of anything different unless heavily prodded, so I feel that this is something we need to look out for because it does feel somewhat scummy. On the case against Thrawn and I: I feel like once again Shady is reading too much into things. As far as the combined case claiming that we are both scum and are working together goes it is based almost entirely off of the timing of our post and the fact that Thrawn copied what I said. However, saying that we are obviously working together makes no sense when it is based purely off of the fact that the second person, in this case Thrawn, merely rewords a public post that I made. I can understand why you would be a bit suspicious, but by your logic one scum could just go around copying and rewording the posts of every person in the game and would therefore have to be in secret contact with every single one of them. The fact of the matter is that there was no insider information that was shared all that happened was that Thrawn piggybacked on somebody else's post and just agree with them. As for my fair and balanced posts or however it was that Shady described them, I simply have not been able to divine that much from what most people are saying, though I will admit to being a timid poster. But at the moment I don't feel I have solid reads on pretty much anyone and so the result of that is I try not to alienate people, though I understand why Shady would be suspicious of that because his goal seems to be to piss off everybody and alienate them all. On YourHarry: As far as the stuff from early on goes I believe his explanation in that he had a mason misread and I think that was it, and as I said before while he was posting very short messages he really didn't appear to have much to say outside of those short messages, but going by his posting history it looks like as soon as he started to get actual reads he began to post them. I feel that his swingyness is suspicious and that his posts haven't been great, particularly the case against GK, but I don't really get a scum read from him. On JHuyt: At the moment he and Golbat are on the top of the Lurker List but I don't have much more than that. However, I don't feel that Archrun's case against him has any merit in light of what Solar has said about his history, and I felt the same way before anyways. On Golbat: I can't really get much of a read because he does only have two posts and even in those two posts he doesn't really do much. He has a one line accusation of thrawn and a few really short reads on people that have been pointed out as big suspects but it is so little that I can't really pull much from it but I don't think he is scum but if he only does two posts a day then I'm tempted to lynch just to narrow things down. So just to wrap it up my top choices for lynches would be Arch, Golbat, and Shady in that order. But I do not feel strongly about the Shady lynch at all, I just think that if he keeps up his witch hunt mentality it could be damaging. So primarily I feel we should lynch Arch or Golbat, Arch for my earlier reasoning and pretty much the same stuff that Stutters said and Golbat for being a lurker. The first bold edit is an odd thing to say as it sounds like he is already trying to preempt counter arguments, but I think a town player could have done it. The only weird thing about it is its close proximity to the 2nd bold edit, which I honestly have no idea what to make of on it's own. But seeing as how they are two strange comments close to each other and regarding the same topic, it makes me a little suspicious that they are excuses (scum statements) rather than reasons (town statements.) The third bold edit when he's talking about me: "It seems to me that anytime he a read that might be right he just jumps on the bandwagon without posting much of anything different unless heavily prodded." This is just not true. Either ochrow is misrepresenting me, or he didn't read the thread. He made this statement after I voted for shady, and that was anything but a bandwagon vote. In fact a lot of people have described it as an OMGUS vote. I can't see how anyone could say I've been bandwagoning if they've read my reasons for voting. On the next bold edit: ("The fact of the matter is that there was no insider information that was shared all that happened was that Thrawn piggybacked on somebody else's post and just agree with them.") The context for this was defending the accusation that he and I were sharing a qt. He says that "Thrawn piggybacked on somebody else's post." To me this seems like a bad argument and possibly him trying to deflect everyone onto my case. To say "the fact of the matter" is a very strongly and clearly worded statement that expresses that whatever claim comes next is undeniable truth. Why would ochrow's defense of the "thrawn/ochrow share a qt" claim be him saying that the only possible explanation is that I piggybacked onto his claim? This strikes me as a suspicious defense.
Wasn't the lie about Solarsail, saying that his posts in this thread match his posts in the rest of TL as far as emotional defense? Cause Solarsail soon after came out and was like "no I was just trolling guys".
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On August 19 2012 07:04 Golbat wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2012 07:01 thrawn2112 wrote:Z-boson (or anyone else) could you explain to me in greater detail what ochrow's lie was? You said it was in his aug 17 5:54 post. I haven't seen anything that qualifies as a lie but if there is a lie, I'd like to know because I think if someone is caught in a lie they should be lynched. I'm going to go through that post and bold anything that seems weird. Ochrow's post + Show Spoiler +On August 17 2012 05:54 Ochrow wrote:On Archrun: Well for starters I am going to go ahead and ##Unvote. For while I'm still suspicious of Archrun for reasons very similar to those posted above, he was very lurky at a time that I didn't feel like I had any good scum reads (yes shady that means I didn't agree with your witch hunts but that doesn't make me scum. . . ) and once he finally stopped lurking I didn't feel his post carried much weight and so I felt that it was just a filler post pointing out some random person to make him seem less suspicious, I don't feel I have enough to vote him at the moment. Now before people start saying that I am flip flopping and that is scum behavior or whatever that argument is I would just like to point out my reasoning for voting Arch because it is somewhat separate from my reasoning for suspecting him. The reason I went and changed my FoS to a Vote was because I really had no idea how much time we had left, I unfortunately have no perception of the passage of time so I thought that the game had already been going on for long enough that the end might come while I was asleep which it almost did as I only just woke up. And so I wanted to make sure I voted as required. On shady: At the moment I can't be sure if Shady is scum or just crazy aggressive townie though at the moment I am leaning slightly towards townie for the same reasoning I used earlier in the game: Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 05:27 Ochrow wrote:
My two cents on Shady:
My initial inclination when I see somebody being as aggressive as he is, this coming only from live games not forum, is that they are scum. However, every single time that I have been in this sort of situation and gotten a scum vibe from somebody being overly aggressive I have been wrong. So for me that history has me thinking that that Shady is town, just an incredibly aggressive one. However at the same time I think that he may be a bit overly aggressive and reading too much into people's posts, as he has made two rather strong accusations against Solar and JHyut that I feel are more or less unfounded. However I do feel that his aggressiveness has progressed to a point where it is almost damaging. The case that he laid down on Thrawn and I was not much different from his original argument against Solar, it was based off of little evidence (oh they both posted at the same time and the second guy read the first ones post and had insider information because he restated stuff that Ochrow had said in a PUBLIC forum) and Shady attacked it with a witch hunt mentality. It seems that Shady is like a shark waiting to smell blood and as soon as he does he just attacks immediately, at least that is the way it seems to me. But nonetheless I still don't feel that this is necessarily scum play, just bad play, but if we don't find any really solid scum (I am not currently sold on any of the reads as I will explain below) I can see him as a potentially good lynch. On Thrawn: I really can't get a read on Thrawn. To be honest when I first read Shady's post I almost instantly began to feel that Thrawn was scum but after reading his defense I do not think that he is. But I will say that I find him a bit too sheepish. It seems to me that anytime he a read that might be right he just jumps on the bandwagon without posting much of anything different unless heavily prodded, so I feel that this is something we need to look out for because it does feel somewhat scummy. On the case against Thrawn and I: I feel like once again Shady is reading too much into things. As far as the combined case claiming that we are both scum and are working together goes it is based almost entirely off of the timing of our post and the fact that Thrawn copied what I said. However, saying that we are obviously working together makes no sense when it is based purely off of the fact that the second person, in this case Thrawn, merely rewords a public post that I made. I can understand why you would be a bit suspicious, but by your logic one scum could just go around copying and rewording the posts of every person in the game and would therefore have to be in secret contact with every single one of them. The fact of the matter is that there was no insider information that was shared all that happened was that Thrawn piggybacked on somebody else's post and just agree with them. As for my fair and balanced posts or however it was that Shady described them, I simply have not been able to divine that much from what most people are saying, though I will admit to being a timid poster. But at the moment I don't feel I have solid reads on pretty much anyone and so the result of that is I try not to alienate people, though I understand why Shady would be suspicious of that because his goal seems to be to piss off everybody and alienate them all. On YourHarry: As far as the stuff from early on goes I believe his explanation in that he had a mason misread and I think that was it, and as I said before while he was posting very short messages he really didn't appear to have much to say outside of those short messages, but going by his posting history it looks like as soon as he started to get actual reads he began to post them. I feel that his swingyness is suspicious and that his posts haven't been great, particularly the case against GK, but I don't really get a scum read from him. On JHuyt: At the moment he and Golbat are on the top of the Lurker List but I don't have much more than that. However, I don't feel that Archrun's case against him has any merit in light of what Solar has said about his history, and I felt the same way before anyways. On Golbat: I can't really get much of a read because he does only have two posts and even in those two posts he doesn't really do much. He has a one line accusation of thrawn and a few really short reads on people that have been pointed out as big suspects but it is so little that I can't really pull much from it but I don't think he is scum but if he only does two posts a day then I'm tempted to lynch just to narrow things down. So just to wrap it up my top choices for lynches would be Arch, Golbat, and Shady in that order. But I do not feel strongly about the Shady lynch at all, I just think that if he keeps up his witch hunt mentality it could be damaging. So primarily I feel we should lynch Arch or Golbat, Arch for my earlier reasoning and pretty much the same stuff that Stutters said and Golbat for being a lurker. The first bold edit is an odd thing to say as it sounds like he is already trying to preempt counter arguments, but I think a town player could have done it. The only weird thing about it is its close proximity to the 2nd bold edit, which I honestly have no idea what to make of on it's own. But seeing as how they are two strange comments close to each other and regarding the same topic, it makes me a little suspicious that they are excuses (scum statements) rather than reasons (town statements.) The third bold edit when he's talking about me: "It seems to me that anytime he a read that might be right he just jumps on the bandwagon without posting much of anything different unless heavily prodded." This is just not true. Either ochrow is misrepresenting me, or he didn't read the thread. He made this statement after I voted for shady, and that was anything but a bandwagon vote. In fact a lot of people have described it as an OMGUS vote. I can't see how anyone could say I've been bandwagoning if they've read my reasons for voting. On the next bold edit: ("The fact of the matter is that there was no insider information that was shared all that happened was that Thrawn piggybacked on somebody else's post and just agree with them.") The context for this was defending the accusation that he and I were sharing a qt. He says that "Thrawn piggybacked on somebody else's post." To me this seems like a bad argument and possibly him trying to deflect everyone onto my case. To say "the fact of the matter" is a very strongly and clearly worded statement that expresses that whatever claim comes next is undeniable truth. Why would ochrow's defense of the "thrawn/ochrow share a qt" claim be him saying that the only possible explanation is that I piggybacked onto his claim? This strikes me as a suspicious defense. Wasn't the lie about Solarsail, saying that his posts in this thread match his posts in the rest of TL as far as emotional defense? Cause Solarsail soon after came out and was like "no I was just trolling guys".
No jhyut said that, and it turned out that it wasn't a lie. It doesn't seem like you are paying very much attention to this game and I don't know what to make of that 
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On August 19 2012 07:09 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2012 07:04 Golbat wrote:On August 19 2012 07:01 thrawn2112 wrote:Z-boson (or anyone else) could you explain to me in greater detail what ochrow's lie was? You said it was in his aug 17 5:54 post. I haven't seen anything that qualifies as a lie but if there is a lie, I'd like to know because I think if someone is caught in a lie they should be lynched. I'm going to go through that post and bold anything that seems weird. Ochrow's post + Show Spoiler +On August 17 2012 05:54 Ochrow wrote:On Archrun: Well for starters I am going to go ahead and ##Unvote. For while I'm still suspicious of Archrun for reasons very similar to those posted above, he was very lurky at a time that I didn't feel like I had any good scum reads (yes shady that means I didn't agree with your witch hunts but that doesn't make me scum. . . ) and once he finally stopped lurking I didn't feel his post carried much weight and so I felt that it was just a filler post pointing out some random person to make him seem less suspicious, I don't feel I have enough to vote him at the moment. Now before people start saying that I am flip flopping and that is scum behavior or whatever that argument is I would just like to point out my reasoning for voting Arch because it is somewhat separate from my reasoning for suspecting him. The reason I went and changed my FoS to a Vote was because I really had no idea how much time we had left, I unfortunately have no perception of the passage of time so I thought that the game had already been going on for long enough that the end might come while I was asleep which it almost did as I only just woke up. And so I wanted to make sure I voted as required. On shady: At the moment I can't be sure if Shady is scum or just crazy aggressive townie though at the moment I am leaning slightly towards townie for the same reasoning I used earlier in the game: Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 05:27 Ochrow wrote:
My two cents on Shady:
My initial inclination when I see somebody being as aggressive as he is, this coming only from live games not forum, is that they are scum. However, every single time that I have been in this sort of situation and gotten a scum vibe from somebody being overly aggressive I have been wrong. So for me that history has me thinking that that Shady is town, just an incredibly aggressive one. However at the same time I think that he may be a bit overly aggressive and reading too much into people's posts, as he has made two rather strong accusations against Solar and JHyut that I feel are more or less unfounded. However I do feel that his aggressiveness has progressed to a point where it is almost damaging. The case that he laid down on Thrawn and I was not much different from his original argument against Solar, it was based off of little evidence (oh they both posted at the same time and the second guy read the first ones post and had insider information because he restated stuff that Ochrow had said in a PUBLIC forum) and Shady attacked it with a witch hunt mentality. It seems that Shady is like a shark waiting to smell blood and as soon as he does he just attacks immediately, at least that is the way it seems to me. But nonetheless I still don't feel that this is necessarily scum play, just bad play, but if we don't find any really solid scum (I am not currently sold on any of the reads as I will explain below) I can see him as a potentially good lynch. On Thrawn: I really can't get a read on Thrawn. To be honest when I first read Shady's post I almost instantly began to feel that Thrawn was scum but after reading his defense I do not think that he is. But I will say that I find him a bit too sheepish. It seems to me that anytime he a read that might be right he just jumps on the bandwagon without posting much of anything different unless heavily prodded, so I feel that this is something we need to look out for because it does feel somewhat scummy. On the case against Thrawn and I: I feel like once again Shady is reading too much into things. As far as the combined case claiming that we are both scum and are working together goes it is based almost entirely off of the timing of our post and the fact that Thrawn copied what I said. However, saying that we are obviously working together makes no sense when it is based purely off of the fact that the second person, in this case Thrawn, merely rewords a public post that I made. I can understand why you would be a bit suspicious, but by your logic one scum could just go around copying and rewording the posts of every person in the game and would therefore have to be in secret contact with every single one of them. The fact of the matter is that there was no insider information that was shared all that happened was that Thrawn piggybacked on somebody else's post and just agree with them. As for my fair and balanced posts or however it was that Shady described them, I simply have not been able to divine that much from what most people are saying, though I will admit to being a timid poster. But at the moment I don't feel I have solid reads on pretty much anyone and so the result of that is I try not to alienate people, though I understand why Shady would be suspicious of that because his goal seems to be to piss off everybody and alienate them all. On YourHarry: As far as the stuff from early on goes I believe his explanation in that he had a mason misread and I think that was it, and as I said before while he was posting very short messages he really didn't appear to have much to say outside of those short messages, but going by his posting history it looks like as soon as he started to get actual reads he began to post them. I feel that his swingyness is suspicious and that his posts haven't been great, particularly the case against GK, but I don't really get a scum read from him. On JHuyt: At the moment he and Golbat are on the top of the Lurker List but I don't have much more than that. However, I don't feel that Archrun's case against him has any merit in light of what Solar has said about his history, and I felt the same way before anyways. On Golbat: I can't really get much of a read because he does only have two posts and even in those two posts he doesn't really do much. He has a one line accusation of thrawn and a few really short reads on people that have been pointed out as big suspects but it is so little that I can't really pull much from it but I don't think he is scum but if he only does two posts a day then I'm tempted to lynch just to narrow things down. So just to wrap it up my top choices for lynches would be Arch, Golbat, and Shady in that order. But I do not feel strongly about the Shady lynch at all, I just think that if he keeps up his witch hunt mentality it could be damaging. So primarily I feel we should lynch Arch or Golbat, Arch for my earlier reasoning and pretty much the same stuff that Stutters said and Golbat for being a lurker. The first bold edit is an odd thing to say as it sounds like he is already trying to preempt counter arguments, but I think a town player could have done it. The only weird thing about it is its close proximity to the 2nd bold edit, which I honestly have no idea what to make of on it's own. But seeing as how they are two strange comments close to each other and regarding the same topic, it makes me a little suspicious that they are excuses (scum statements) rather than reasons (town statements.) The third bold edit when he's talking about me: "It seems to me that anytime he a read that might be right he just jumps on the bandwagon without posting much of anything different unless heavily prodded." This is just not true. Either ochrow is misrepresenting me, or he didn't read the thread. He made this statement after I voted for shady, and that was anything but a bandwagon vote. In fact a lot of people have described it as an OMGUS vote. I can't see how anyone could say I've been bandwagoning if they've read my reasons for voting. On the next bold edit: ("The fact of the matter is that there was no insider information that was shared all that happened was that Thrawn piggybacked on somebody else's post and just agree with them.") The context for this was defending the accusation that he and I were sharing a qt. He says that "Thrawn piggybacked on somebody else's post." To me this seems like a bad argument and possibly him trying to deflect everyone onto my case. To say "the fact of the matter" is a very strongly and clearly worded statement that expresses that whatever claim comes next is undeniable truth. Why would ochrow's defense of the "thrawn/ochrow share a qt" claim be him saying that the only possible explanation is that I piggybacked onto his claim? This strikes me as a suspicious defense. Wasn't the lie about Solarsail, saying that his posts in this thread match his posts in the rest of TL as far as emotional defense? Cause Solarsail soon after came out and was like "no I was just trolling guys". No jhyut said that, and it turned out that it wasn't a lie. It doesn't seem like you are paying very much attention to this game and I don't know what to make of that
You could probably assume that I didn't pay close attention to the first 24hours of the game. Because I didn't. I had forgotten I even signed up until like halfway through Day1.
Why are YOU trying to make it sound like I have no clue what's going on at all? I know exactly what to make of that.
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@thrawn2112
This part (which I quoted from goodkarma's case against you... if you want to even begin to defend yourself, at LEAST read the main accusations against you carefully...):
As far as the combined case claiming that we are both scum and are working together goes it is based almost entirely off of the timing of our post and the fact that Thrawn copied what I said.
He said you copied what he said, when your post was simultaneous to his. Unless Ochrow, before 3:57, mentioned or hinted at your ideas, that statement is completely unjustified and untrue. How would you have copied him if there was nothing to copy from?
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Regarding Thrawn:
I know that now about half of us have voted for him, but consider this: as of now he has provided both a reasonable defense and his own scum reads. While some may feel he has made "scumslips" in his choice of words, remember that Shady was guilty of the same thing and he was town. What I'm looking for is a town motivation, which speaks far louder than any one "scumslip." "Scumlips," quite honestly, can be made by town or scum.
When I look at Thrawn's most recent play today, he started off quite poorly. He made some WIFOM argument about why he would never kill Mkfuba as scum, and used Mkfuba's defense of him in place of any real defense of his own. However, since then, he has made a post that directly addresses everything I brought up about him in my case post. He claims that the post timing for both him and Ochrow I pointed out is merely coincidence. While I still find that a little hard to believe, I'm looking at his actions too.
He has made constructive, pro-town posts even when facing the strong possibility of a lynch. He has presented his own case against YourHarry, and has encouraged others to present their own reasonings behind their posts and not sheep behind a lynch bandwaggon.
And then there's the matter of the vigi claim. While I stand by what I've said about a vigi claim being just as plausible for a scum to make, and that there's no certain way of knowing if his claim is true outside of a lynch, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt here. It is plausible he vigi killed Archrun. It would be consistent with his actions.
An important component of my case against him is that I believe him and Ochrow have a shared QT, and that their views are eerily similar as though aligned via said QT. If either Ochrow or Thrawn flips red, it gives my "shared QT" case point that much more validity, but I'm not willing to send one possibly innocent player to death just to see if my case is right. First and foremost, we hunt scum, and thrawn's most recent actions feel significantly pro-town to me.
As it is, they're both unflipped, and, imho this makes this case point much weaker, and my case in general not the "sure-fire thing" I claimed it to be at the time. I was super-excited with my findings at the time, as putting everything together you get a very neat theory going where everything seems to nicely fit together. But players often will post on similar things at the same time, and that's plausibly the case with Thrawn and Ochrow. However, I do still feel that Ochrow and Thrawn posted so much that was similar at the exact same time my case can't be completely disregarded, and these two individuals should be looked at with extra suspicion. I definitely got a little ahead of myself, but going forward, as always, I'm going to vote for the player who I feel has the strongest scum read.
If my shared QT case is to be true, Ochrow is just as important a component. He is my focus for the time being. While Thrawn still could be scum, I can't help but feel that we could be losing a strong town presence if he is telling the truth with his vigi claim. With Ochrow, on the other hand, we would lose pretty much nothing (as I will be discussing shortly).
For now:
##Unvote Thrawn
Regarding Ochrow:
I've already presented much of my case against him, and I'm still waiting for his response. But let's look past that for now, and assume he's just another player that we need to get a read on. Looking through his filter, the first thing you'll see is that it's rather sparse. The second thing you'll see is he hasn't really had a firm stance on anyone. He even tries to defend this.:
On August 17 2012 05:54 Ochrow wrote:
-snip-
On the case against Thrawn and I:
I feel like once again Shady is reading too much into things. As far as the combined case claiming that we are both scum and are working together goes it is based almost entirely off of the timing of our post and the fact that Thrawn copied what I said. However, saying that we are obviously working together makes no sense when it is based purely off of the fact that the second person, in this case Thrawn, merely rewords a public post that I made. I can understand why you would be a bit suspicious, but by your logic one scum could just go around copying and rewording the posts of every person in the game and would therefore have to be in secret contact with every single one of them. The fact of the matter is that there was no insider information that was shared all that happened was that Thrawn piggybacked on somebody else's post and just agree with them. As for my fair and balanced posts or however it was that Shady described them, I simply have not been able to divine that much from what most people are saying, though I will admit to being a timid poster. But at the moment I don't feel I have solid reads on pretty much anyone and so the result of that is I try not to alienate people, though I understand why Shady would be suspicious of that because his goal seems to be to piss off everybody and alienate them all.
-snip-
Even if my shared QT case point doesn't hold water, looking at Ochrow's actions, he is distinctly scummy. He is pretty lurky, and hasn't stuck his neck out on any case argument, spending much of his efforts on a safe "policy lurker vote" against Archrun. His favorite stance on others is pretty much a wishy-washy "I don't know."
My read on him is he's a lurky scum with no interest in actively participating in scum-hunting. This alone is enough merit to earn my vote. That his flip will provide valuable information on my shared QT case point is an added bonus.
##Vote: Ochrow
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On August 19 2012 07:30 Golbat wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2012 07:09 thrawn2112 wrote:On August 19 2012 07:04 Golbat wrote:On August 19 2012 07:01 thrawn2112 wrote:Z-boson (or anyone else) could you explain to me in greater detail what ochrow's lie was? You said it was in his aug 17 5:54 post. I haven't seen anything that qualifies as a lie but if there is a lie, I'd like to know because I think if someone is caught in a lie they should be lynched. I'm going to go through that post and bold anything that seems weird. Ochrow's post + Show Spoiler +On August 17 2012 05:54 Ochrow wrote:On Archrun: Well for starters I am going to go ahead and ##Unvote. For while I'm still suspicious of Archrun for reasons very similar to those posted above, he was very lurky at a time that I didn't feel like I had any good scum reads (yes shady that means I didn't agree with your witch hunts but that doesn't make me scum. . . ) and once he finally stopped lurking I didn't feel his post carried much weight and so I felt that it was just a filler post pointing out some random person to make him seem less suspicious, I don't feel I have enough to vote him at the moment. Now before people start saying that I am flip flopping and that is scum behavior or whatever that argument is I would just like to point out my reasoning for voting Arch because it is somewhat separate from my reasoning for suspecting him. The reason I went and changed my FoS to a Vote was because I really had no idea how much time we had left, I unfortunately have no perception of the passage of time so I thought that the game had already been going on for long enough that the end might come while I was asleep which it almost did as I only just woke up. And so I wanted to make sure I voted as required. On shady: At the moment I can't be sure if Shady is scum or just crazy aggressive townie though at the moment I am leaning slightly towards townie for the same reasoning I used earlier in the game: Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 05:27 Ochrow wrote:
My two cents on Shady:
My initial inclination when I see somebody being as aggressive as he is, this coming only from live games not forum, is that they are scum. However, every single time that I have been in this sort of situation and gotten a scum vibe from somebody being overly aggressive I have been wrong. So for me that history has me thinking that that Shady is town, just an incredibly aggressive one. However at the same time I think that he may be a bit overly aggressive and reading too much into people's posts, as he has made two rather strong accusations against Solar and JHyut that I feel are more or less unfounded. However I do feel that his aggressiveness has progressed to a point where it is almost damaging. The case that he laid down on Thrawn and I was not much different from his original argument against Solar, it was based off of little evidence (oh they both posted at the same time and the second guy read the first ones post and had insider information because he restated stuff that Ochrow had said in a PUBLIC forum) and Shady attacked it with a witch hunt mentality. It seems that Shady is like a shark waiting to smell blood and as soon as he does he just attacks immediately, at least that is the way it seems to me. But nonetheless I still don't feel that this is necessarily scum play, just bad play, but if we don't find any really solid scum (I am not currently sold on any of the reads as I will explain below) I can see him as a potentially good lynch. On Thrawn: I really can't get a read on Thrawn. To be honest when I first read Shady's post I almost instantly began to feel that Thrawn was scum but after reading his defense I do not think that he is. But I will say that I find him a bit too sheepish. It seems to me that anytime he a read that might be right he just jumps on the bandwagon without posting much of anything different unless heavily prodded, so I feel that this is something we need to look out for because it does feel somewhat scummy. On the case against Thrawn and I: I feel like once again Shady is reading too much into things. As far as the combined case claiming that we are both scum and are working together goes it is based almost entirely off of the timing of our post and the fact that Thrawn copied what I said. However, saying that we are obviously working together makes no sense when it is based purely off of the fact that the second person, in this case Thrawn, merely rewords a public post that I made. I can understand why you would be a bit suspicious, but by your logic one scum could just go around copying and rewording the posts of every person in the game and would therefore have to be in secret contact with every single one of them. The fact of the matter is that there was no insider information that was shared all that happened was that Thrawn piggybacked on somebody else's post and just agree with them. As for my fair and balanced posts or however it was that Shady described them, I simply have not been able to divine that much from what most people are saying, though I will admit to being a timid poster. But at the moment I don't feel I have solid reads on pretty much anyone and so the result of that is I try not to alienate people, though I understand why Shady would be suspicious of that because his goal seems to be to piss off everybody and alienate them all. On YourHarry: As far as the stuff from early on goes I believe his explanation in that he had a mason misread and I think that was it, and as I said before while he was posting very short messages he really didn't appear to have much to say outside of those short messages, but going by his posting history it looks like as soon as he started to get actual reads he began to post them. I feel that his swingyness is suspicious and that his posts haven't been great, particularly the case against GK, but I don't really get a scum read from him. On JHuyt: At the moment he and Golbat are on the top of the Lurker List but I don't have much more than that. However, I don't feel that Archrun's case against him has any merit in light of what Solar has said about his history, and I felt the same way before anyways. On Golbat: I can't really get much of a read because he does only have two posts and even in those two posts he doesn't really do much. He has a one line accusation of thrawn and a few really short reads on people that have been pointed out as big suspects but it is so little that I can't really pull much from it but I don't think he is scum but if he only does two posts a day then I'm tempted to lynch just to narrow things down. So just to wrap it up my top choices for lynches would be Arch, Golbat, and Shady in that order. But I do not feel strongly about the Shady lynch at all, I just think that if he keeps up his witch hunt mentality it could be damaging. So primarily I feel we should lynch Arch or Golbat, Arch for my earlier reasoning and pretty much the same stuff that Stutters said and Golbat for being a lurker. The first bold edit is an odd thing to say as it sounds like he is already trying to preempt counter arguments, but I think a town player could have done it. The only weird thing about it is its close proximity to the 2nd bold edit, which I honestly have no idea what to make of on it's own. But seeing as how they are two strange comments close to each other and regarding the same topic, it makes me a little suspicious that they are excuses (scum statements) rather than reasons (town statements.) The third bold edit when he's talking about me: "It seems to me that anytime he a read that might be right he just jumps on the bandwagon without posting much of anything different unless heavily prodded." This is just not true. Either ochrow is misrepresenting me, or he didn't read the thread. He made this statement after I voted for shady, and that was anything but a bandwagon vote. In fact a lot of people have described it as an OMGUS vote. I can't see how anyone could say I've been bandwagoning if they've read my reasons for voting. On the next bold edit: ("The fact of the matter is that there was no insider information that was shared all that happened was that Thrawn piggybacked on somebody else's post and just agree with them.") The context for this was defending the accusation that he and I were sharing a qt. He says that "Thrawn piggybacked on somebody else's post." To me this seems like a bad argument and possibly him trying to deflect everyone onto my case. To say "the fact of the matter" is a very strongly and clearly worded statement that expresses that whatever claim comes next is undeniable truth. Why would ochrow's defense of the "thrawn/ochrow share a qt" claim be him saying that the only possible explanation is that I piggybacked onto his claim? This strikes me as a suspicious defense. Wasn't the lie about Solarsail, saying that his posts in this thread match his posts in the rest of TL as far as emotional defense? Cause Solarsail soon after came out and was like "no I was just trolling guys". No jhyut said that, and it turned out that it wasn't a lie. It doesn't seem like you are paying very much attention to this game and I don't know what to make of that You could probably assume that I didn't pay close attention to the first 24hours of the game. Because I didn't. I had forgotten I even signed up until like halfway through Day1. Why are YOU trying to make it sound like I have no clue what's going on at all? I know exactly what to make of that.
I'm not trying to 'make it sound' like that, I'm flat out stating that you don't have a clue. You even agreed to this. "You could probably assume that I didn't pay close attention to the first 24hours of the game. Because I didn't. I had forgotten I even signed up until like halfway through Day1." You admit not paying close attention to the first 24 hours of the game. You shouldn't have signed up for a game you're not going to participate in... if you are town then you really made the 1st day way more difficult, as did the other lurkers. You were more active from the end of D1 till now which makes me think that you truly were just lurking at the beginning, but you have to see that you've made it really difficult for people to get a read on you.
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On August 19 2012 07:45 goodkarma wrote:
An important component of my case against him is that I believe him and Ochrow have a shared QT, and that their views are eerily similar as though aligned via said QT. If either Ochrow or Thrawn flips red, it gives my "shared QT" case point that much more validity, but I'm not willing to send one possibly innocent player to death just to see if my case is right. First and foremost, we hunt scum, and thrawn's most recent actions feel significantly pro-town to me.
As I've said the posts were a coincidence, so I obviously don't agree with the 'shared qt theory' component of your case. If that is the main component of your case then I urge you to reevaluate your vote because you would be basing your vote on what is a coincidence.
On August 19 2012 07:45 goodkarma wrote:
Even if my shared QT case point doesn't hold water, looking at Ochrow's actions, he is distinctly scummy. He is pretty lurky, and hasn't stuck his neck out on any case argument, spending much of his efforts on a safe "policy lurker vote" against Archrun. His favorite stance on others is pretty much a wishy-washy "I don't know."[
My read on him is he's a lurky scum with no interest in actively participating in scum-hunting. This alone is enough merit to earn my vote. That his flip will provide valuable information on my shared QT case point is an added bonus.
I do agree with this part, and I'm currently waiting on ochrow to respond to my post. If he doesn't give a believable response or doesn't respond at all then I will also vote for Ochrow.
I'm currently waiting on yourharry and ochrow to reply to my posts. I haven't felt that darthpunk's replies to my posts are genuine so if yourharry and ochrow convince me they're town then I will go through darthpunk's filter.
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On August 19 2012 00:30 YourHarry wrote:@Jhuyt I think I know who you are coming from. I admit I may have looked scummy, but please read This Post carefullyShow nested quote +On August 18 2012 18:09 thrawn2112 wrote:
FOS yourharry
Yourharry has a long track record of posting one liners. One liners are likely to come from scum, as the scum can appear active and even appear to be scumhunting without saying anything of substance for the town to analyze. I have gone through his filter and quoted all his one liners. I tried not to include posts that shouldn't be relevant, such as asking mods questions and things like that. There are several posts I didn't include that were very short but at least were composed of more than a single sentence Do you think I specifically need those one liners to appear to be scum hunting and active? Really?? And flip-flopping of my votes is just reflection of my changing reads on people. Some of my suspicions could have come from gut feeling, but I think I can explain most of my flip flops. I will do it later if people ask me to.I will be back later. Hopefully we'd get some posts from the lurkers. Z-boson, Ochrow, and Solar need to post more.
YourHarry, please explain your flip-flops.
Thanks  .
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On August 19 2012 07:45 goodkarma wrote:
He claims that the post timing for both him and Ochrow I pointed out is merely coincidence. While I still find that a little hard to believe, I'm looking at his actions too.
Here is the page where it happened.
Notice that Ochrow and I both made posts on August 15, 5:27 KST. In these posts, we both come to the conclusion that yourharry and solar are town and we use similar reasons causing people to later on (nobody pointed it out when it happened) to think Ochrow and I are sharing qts. Solar and yourharry were definitely in the spotlight at that time, of course they would be the ones who anyone posting would choose to talk about. Do you think that it is more likely that scum thrawn/ochio decided to make posts at the exact same time, about the exact same people, and use the exact same arguments? I say it is more reasonable to think it's a coincidence caused by yourharry and solar being in the town's spotlight. I am not making a wifom argument, because my argument is that you should think that the coincidence option is more likely to be true.
Ochrow puts a FOS on Archrun in that post. I did not. My post contained nothing about Archrun. The post I made about Archrun did not happen until 7:11 KST, just short of two hours later. I quoted Ochrow's 5:27 post to show my agreement that Archrun should be a target, and I gave my reasons for doing so. My reasons happened to look like a rewording of what Ochrow said, because both of the things that we said were true and they were the best reasons anyone would have given for why Archrun should be suspected. The fact that I didn't mention Archrun until a post that happened after the 5:27 posts everyone is looking at, and the fact that I quoted Ochrow's earlier post to show that I agreed with him that Archrun should be pressured makes the coincidence theory even more believable. I did not know what Ochrow was writing at 5:27. After I posted my 5:27 post I read his 5:27 post and then quoted it in my next post to show my agreement with his FOS on Archrun. Despite agreeing with Ochrow about Archrun, my FOS on Archrun came up independently from Ochrow's read. I had looked at all the lurkers, read all their early game filters, and then I choose the one whose posts contained the least substance.
This is all I can possibly say concerning the ochrow-thrawn qt theory. I am not making a wifom argument, as I don't think that from somebody else's perspective that the coincidence explanation and the qt explanation are equally likely. I am very hesitant to post this, but I'm going to go ahead and do it anyway just in case it will convince some of you. I think there are some people who have already closed their minds to the possibility that I'm town so I do not care if they don't accept this post. I'm not going to discuss this issue again because I don't have anything else to say about it and I don't want to waste time.
If I am lynched, when I flip blue all you town players need to go back and look at the filters of whoever made arguments against me, and you should also look through my filter at the scum reads I'm currently working on. Currently I have a case against Yourharry and I've pointed out some odd statements in one of Ochrow's posts. I'm waiting on responses to my cases both from them and from everyone else.
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On August 18 2012 17:10 YourHarry wrote:Remaining player list, excluding myself: DarthPunk goodkarma Golbatthrawn2112Jhuyt SolarSail Z-BosoN Stutters695 Ochrow Darth is almost for sure not the SK, especially because he was roleblocked and there was a second night kill. SK should also be very quick to dismiss any vigilante claim, because there were only two night kills. SK, if vig claim is true, should have expected 3 night kills. In this regard, Darth, Golbat, Solar and GK are likely candidates. Darth, for reason mentioned above, is not SK. Golbat I think is scum. Either Solar or GK could be SK. Also, assuming that SK was aiming for the scum, he must have thought that mkfuba is scum. In this respect, Solar or Ochrow could be the SK because they both believed my mason-read claim and may have thought that mkfuba who was suspicious of me was scum. This is, admittedly, a weak connection but I think this is a possibility. Solar also was one of the players who quickly dismissed Thrawn's vigilante claim. Z-boson hasn't posted today yet, but he seemed to suspect me on Day 1 so I don't think he would have targeted mkfuba as SK. So, unlikely to be the SK. Stutters makes this possibly suspicious post regarding SK on Day 1: Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 10:29 Stutters695 wrote:
In regards to an SK:
I agree with discussing the SK being a waste of time. It will become obvious very quickly if there is an SK when multiple people are dying nightly.
He also ends up voting for Archrun, and may have thought that I was townie. Thus, Stutter targeting mkfuba, who was suspicious of me, could be consistent with Stutter being the SK. So, currently I think two likely SK candidates are Solar and Stutter and then maybe GoodKarma. For now though, we should focus more on lynching the scums than SK, as SK could help us target some of the scums.
Only golbat called you out on this post so I want to second that since he had it in a spoiler and it seems like people missed it.
Are you kidding me? This post isn't WIFOM? Please explain to me why if there is a SK he would denounce the possibility of a vig instead of letting that play out and identifying a scum for himself while knowing the truth? I'm not even going to go into the rest of this post as it's so out there everything will just be me answering your "what if" with another one.
Now what really stands out to me in this post is trying to pin down what does Town Harry get from posting this? A plethora of hypotheticals that show Harry's opinions on possible SK's doesn't save the town tonight with a guaranteed hit on a lynch. The only potential upside to this is that it would sway the discussion away from him possibly getting himself mislynched however that isn't even pro-town as actually making a good case does the same thing without trying to misdirect the town.
Now what would Scum Harry get out of this SK post? Let's assume for a minute that Thrawn is actually telling the truth and he has just been playing a terrible Vig. The scumteam would have killed mkfuba in that case. Mkfuba only focused on YourHarry and SolarSail before dying so I find it strange that Harry is still so focused on him.
I'm going to go through filters and draw up some better cases after I run to the store, but just some food for thought. I'd wager that if Thrawn is actually Vig, YH is scum 100%.
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On August 19 2012 10:19 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2012 07:45 goodkarma wrote:
He claims that the post timing for both him and Ochrow I pointed out is merely coincidence. While I still find that a little hard to believe, I'm looking at his actions too. Here is the page where it happened. Notice that Ochrow and I both made posts on August 15, 5:27 KST. In these posts, we both come to the conclusion that yourharry and solar are town and we use similar reasons causing people to later on (nobody pointed it out when it happened) to think Ochrow and I are sharing qts. Solar and yourharry were definitely in the spotlight at that time, of course they would be the ones who anyone posting would choose to talk about. Do you think that it is more likely that scum thrawn/ochio decided to make posts at the exact same time, about the exact same people, and use the exact same arguments? I say it is more reasonable to think it's a coincidence caused by yourharry and solar being in the town's spotlight. I am not making a wifom argument, because my argument is that you should think that the coincidence option is more likely to be true. Ochrow puts a FOS on Archrun in that post. I did not. My post contained nothing about Archrun. The post I made about Archrun did not happen until 7:11 KST, just short of two hours later. I quoted Ochrow's 5:27 post to show my agreement that Archrun should be a target, and I gave my reasons for doing so. My reasons happened to look like a rewording of what Ochrow said, because both of the things that we said were true and they were the best reasons anyone would have given for why Archrun should be suspected. The fact that I didn't mention Archrun until a post that happened after the 5:27 posts everyone is looking at, and the fact that I quoted Ochrow's earlier post to show that I agreed with him that Archrun should be pressured makes the coincidence theory even more believable. I did not know what Ochrow was writing at 5:27. After I posted my 5:27 post I read his 5:27 post and then quoted it in my next post to show my agreement with his FOS on Archrun. Despite agreeing with Ochrow about Archrun, my FOS on Archrun came up independently from Ochrow's read. I had looked at all the lurkers, read all their early game filters, and then I choose the one whose posts contained the least substance. This is all I can possibly say concerning the ochrow-thrawn qt theory. I am not making a wifom argument, as I don't think that from somebody else's perspective that the coincidence explanation and the qt explanation are equally likely. I am very hesitant to post this, but I'm going to go ahead and do it anyway just in case it will convince some of you. I think there are some people who have already closed their minds to the possibility that I'm town so I do not care if they don't accept this post. I'm not going to discuss this issue again because I don't have anything else to say about it and I don't want to waste time. If I am lynched, when I flip blue all you town players need to go back and look at the filters of whoever made arguments against me, and you should also look through my filter at the scum reads I'm currently working on. Currently I have a case against Yourharry and I've pointed out some odd statements in one of Ochrow's posts. I'm waiting on responses to my cases both from them and from everyone else.
It is probable that both you and Ochrow posting at the exact same time is a coincidence, that being said, I think the suspicions of a shared QT rely more on the fact that, without influence from either of each other; You both post almost the exact same thing on the exact same people, you both find Your Harry town against the prevailing sentiment with incredibly weak reasoning which makes it look as if painting Your Harry as town is part of an agenda you both shared.
You further push your Town Harry agenda throughout your discussions with me until you both backflip from your town reads at around the same time and start bussing eachother.
I find your Vig claim to be weak because it was made 'after the fact' with no breadcrumb before the day post of your hit it is so weak that the lack of a counter claim does not exonerate you.
Vig should be the easiest role to claim and yet yours is incredibly lacking.
What makes me even more suspicious of you is this
On August 18 2012 15:59 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 15:52 DarthPunk wrote:On August 18 2012 15:40 thrawn2112 wrote:
You are right that there is no evidence in either direction to prove or disprove my vig claim. I only vig claimed to give an explanation as to how things could have worked out the way they did if I am town.
How about you claimed Vig because you are the Vig? Huge Slip. What townie says 'if I was town'? HUGE SCUMSLIP not for the first time thrawn is talking through the perspective of scum acting as town.
Blatant scumslips that you have brushed aside and are almost the nail in your coffin. I am 90% sure you are scum
With all that being said you have continued to argue against your lynch and have contributed vastly more than many of the players here. Whilst I hardly agree with the majority of your arguments you are generating discussion and providing content and that does give you some credit in my opinion. Ochrow on the other hand whom is just as suspicious as yourself has not contributed anything, has not defended himself etc. and this post:
On August 18 2012 06:13 Ochrow wrote:
At the moment I'm going to stick with my earlier suspicions and say that unless something very suspicious happens we should vote Archrun. But at the same time Thrawn's sheeping makes me suspicious of him, though I still have more of a townie read on him. So I think right now we are going to have to focus a lot on who the kills are tonight.
Is incredibly suspicious combined with the Mkfuba NK. The Mkfuba Nightkill was very confusing in that it had no clear motive and was, I think, an attempt to confuse us.
Further, the lack of a counter claim has me a bit nervous. Whilst I can completely understand if the real vig chose not to claim at this point in time. It is the one thing that makes me reconsider auto lynching you.
As it stands I still have Strong scum reads on Your Harry, Thrawn and Ochrow and am willing to support any of these lynches.
However taking into account his contribution (which I may strongly disagree with, but contribution nonetheless) to the thread and lack of a counter to his Vig claim, whilst I still think he is scum he is no longer my primary priority.
## Unvote
I have yet to decide who out of my three reads I prefer right now and may vote for thrawn after all. But I have a very strong scum read on Your Harry so I will be focusing on him.
## Vote:Your Harry
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On August 19 2012 10:39 Stutters695 wrote:
I'm going to go through filters and draw up some better cases after I run to the store, but just some food for thought. I'd wager that if Thrawn is actually Vig, YH is scum 100%.
And I would wager that if Thrawn was not the Vig Your Harry is scum. Either way he is scum and must be lynched.
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I am going to begin work on a case against Your Harry it may take some time but should put into writing my thoughts.
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@Stutters You are correct that it is possible for SK to pretend to not know about Thrawn being the fake vig. I did not think about that possibility, but I still stand by that since it is SK's best interest to lynch a scum, I expect the SK to support Thrawn lynch, who SK knows is scum based on the night result. Do you agree?
I actually thought the rest of my post was pretty reasonable. If you disagree with the content of my post, please point it out, as you did by pointing it out the possibility that SK may not quickly dismiss vig claim, to disguise himself from looking like a SK. I feel it is unfair to dismiss rest of my post because you disagree with my first part of the post.
And as for the purpose of the post, I thought I had a pretty grasp on who the SK may be. So I wanted to share that information.
And you say that if Thrawn is vig, I am 100% scum. I don't think Thrawan is vig, but let's suppose that he is vigilante. What does scum Harry have to gain by trying to confirm Thrawn's alignment based on tonight's actions. Also, looking back on Day 1, why would scum Harry make himself so suspicious by preferring to lynch Archrun or even Shady, when scum Harry knew that Thrawn lynch would be just fine? To me, mislynch in Archrun, Shady, or Thrawn would have been just fine. On the other hand, it was because I had a strong scum read on Archrun, that I wanted to defend Thrawn.
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@YourHarry:
Now that you're back, would you mind taking a few moments to share your read on Ochrow? You've been very vocal about others, but I've heard hardly anything about him from you.
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On August 19 2012 08:18 goodkarma wrote:YourHarry, please explain your flip-flops. Thanks .
My initial suspicion on Thrawn was based on what I thought were Thrawn's wishy washy posts. It was low content post, partially to get the discussion going.
Similar with my suspicion on Solar. Agreed with Shady's case on Solar, especially the part where Solar talked about how it must be scared to play the game as scum. It may sound stupid, but I felt Solar was expressing his fear of playing as scum. I admit, low content but reinforced by my gut feeling that Solar and Thrawn were scum together. Sometimes this can't be helped. Also, to get the discussion going in the early game.
My dismissal of Solar being scum. My mist interpretation of Goodkarma. I strongly believed that Solar and Goodkarma were mason buddies. Was wrong.
Which made me suspect whoever seemed to be attacking Solar. Mkfuba wasn't even attacking Solar. So it was stupid for me to accuse Mkfuba, but I did because of my paranoia in thinking that Mkfuba was preparing subtle plans to incriminate Solar. Mkfuba who later explained that he was defending Solar, made me think he was being sneaky.
Attacking of Goodkarma. Once I realized that GK and Solar were not mason buddies, it made me think that GK somehow knew Solar was town. Made me suspect GK. Everyone else disagreed.
Voting of Shady. I was at work and only skimmed through. Chose Shady over Thrawn, because Thrawn's defense against Shady made logical sense to me. Did not particularly think Shady was scummy, but at the time it looked like only choices were Thrawn or Shady. The last part is arguable.
Voting of Archrun. I had strong read on this, based on Archrun saying that exactly one of Thrawn or Shady is scum. Based on experience.
Strong defense of Thrawn. Because I thought Archrun was for sure scum. This made me think Thrawn was for sure town, because ARchrun wanted to lynch Thrawn and Shady.
Night post from Thrawn made me think he was blue role. So I quickly believed Thrawn's vig claim.
Upon re-evaluation and taking into account that Archrun flipped town, I had to get rid of my initial town read on Thrawn. And when Thrawn denied his breadcrumb post, made me think why did vig not leave a breadcrumb post. It followed that Thrawn had to wait until the SK kill was apparent, before he could ever claim. Also the fact that I think in the same "breadcrumb" post, Thrawn discouraged the detective to check him out. So now pretty strong scum read on Thrawn.
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On August 19 2012 13:10 goodkarma wrote:
@YourHarry:
Now that you're back, would you mind taking a few moments to share your read on Ochrow? You've been very vocal about others, but I've heard hardly anything about him from you.
OK. He hasn't posted much, and can I talk about my theories regarding him. I have had so much suspicion on me for being wrong about my assumptions, but I have an alignment-related theories. I guess it should be OK because I could be wrong and scums may not believe me anyway or if they believe me they may be wrong.
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Actually, never mind. It will just sound really stupid again and people will suspect me. And if I am right, it's not a good thing for town.
I have a town read on him. I don't know if Ochrow was scum with Thrawn, he would NOT have coordinated such similar ideas with Thrawn. Maybe WIFOM, but I think it is just as likely that their similar postings were coincidence.
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BTW, since I recently responded to Stutters, I think he is town based on my suspicion that Thrawn is scum because of this:
Stutter wrote:I'm going to go through filters and draw up some better cases after I run to the store, but just some food for thought. I'd wager that if Thrawn is actually Vig, YH is scum 100%.
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EPT
