EPTWhat if he was lying about his HP? I kinda figure I have a lot of HPs, and a blow like that wouldn't have killed me either. It would have dropped me down to relatively nothing, though. We don't seem to be getting many opportunities to lynch, so we have to be very careful how we spend these cycles. If my hunch is right and Toad is very close to dying, then it would be pretty wasteful to lynch him instead of another highly suspected scumball. (ie. Hopeless1nder?).
Chrono Trigger Mafia - Page 251
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Dienosore
Brunei Darussalam622 Posts
What if he was lying about his HP? I kinda figure I have a lot of HPs, and a blow like that wouldn't have killed me either. It would have dropped me down to relatively nothing, though. We don't seem to be getting many opportunities to lynch, so we have to be very careful how we spend these cycles. If my hunch is right and Toad is very close to dying, then it would be pretty wasteful to lynch him instead of another highly suspected scumball. (ie. Hopeless1nder?). | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
 My HP is in the 4 digits. And well, you'll see what's going to happen after the lynch :p | ||
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iamperfection
United States9645 Posts
On November 30 2012 06:08 Dienosore wrote: Although we know toad is scum, I'm not entirely sure we should lynch him tonight. What if he was lying about his HP? I kinda figure I have a lot of HPs, and a blow like that wouldn't have killed me either. It would have dropped me down to relatively nothing, though. We don't seem to be getting many opportunities to lynch, so we have to be very careful how we spend these cycles. If my hunch is right and Toad is very close to dying, then it would be pretty wasteful to lynch him instead of another highly suspected scumball. (ie. Hopeless1nder?). no | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
He's scum that has been caught. It would 100% make sense for him to lie about unverifiable things. | ||
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Dienosore
Brunei Darussalam622 Posts
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iamperfection
United States9645 Posts
On November 30 2012 06:10 Keirathi wrote: How do you know he even took the damage? Or how much he took? He's scum that has been caught. It would 100% make sense for him to lie about unverifiable things. and this is why | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On November 30 2012 06:08 Dienosore wrote: Although we know toad is scum, I'm not entirely sure we should lynch him tonight. What if he was lying about his HP? I kinda figure I have a lot of HPs, and a blow like that wouldn't have killed me either. It would have dropped me down to relatively nothing, though. We don't seem to be getting many opportunities to lynch, so we have to be very careful how we spend these cycles. If my hunch is right and Toad is very close to dying, then it would be pretty wasteful to lynch him instead of another highly suspected scumball. (ie. Hopeless1nder?). @Acro Was the 750 damage claimed even remotely close to what you expected? | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On November 30 2012 06:11 Dienosore wrote: seems like exactly the sort of thing a scumball would say to stop this line of thinking... you got me there | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
##Vote (Party Leader) - Clarity_nl ##Lynch - Toadsstern My Reads Having that out of the way, I wanted to devote a longer post towards hashing out some of my thoughts on the game. I feel that the town right now is rather poorly focused, or at the very least, looking in the wrong direction for scum. GoodKarma (Slightly Town) While his early-game play was lacking (and pretty "scummy"), his recent defense is more than I'd ever expect from scum-GK. He's been incredibly forthcoming with his replies, and has been replying on very short time-stamps. When compared to the other scum-games I've seen out of him, it's very markedly different. In Newbie XXIII, he makes under ~10 posts on Day 1, and when a strong last-minute bandwagon forms on him, he is too scared to reply to the thread and gets himself lynched. In Mafia LVII, he makes a couple of longer posts with suspect logic, then peaces out from the thread for a couple of hours before making his next substantial reply. I have a hard time believing that GK could have transformed his scum-play so drastically in such a short time. He's being much more brave and forthcoming than anything I've seen in his scum-meta. Sure it's possible that he stepped-up his game and I won't discount that. However, he's showing no "guilt" or hesitation in his replies, and I believe they are coming from a townie (or atleast a non-mafia) GK. Hopeless1der (Town) In a similar vein towards GK, I have a hard time believing that scum-Hopeless would have defended himself as actively as he did in response to very heavy suspicion against him. In addition, he seems much more interested in this game than anything I've seen out of him. I've already posted my thoughts on him, and I think they still apply. On November 27 2012 03:50 Hapahauli wrote: ... Also I came to a bit of a conclusion on Hopeless: 1) If Toad somehow magically flips non-mafia, Hopeless needs to get insta-lynched for repeatedly speculating so. 2) If Toad flips scum, I think Hopeless is town (or at the very least non-mafia). Him constantly speculating that Toad might flip green (in this scenario) is a really odd path of analysis for someone to take if they knew Toad was mafia. Possibly mafia attempting to contribute, but even then, it's still not something I'd expect mafia to do. Also, he was reasonably quick to defend himself, and his statements seem consistent with a mentality (albeit a strange one). Promethelax (awefhkdsjfasdfb, Town) His play has confounded me so far. I find his attitudes and suspicions towards me "scummy", but like the two people above, he's defended himself without any hesitation or sense of guilt. Of everyone mentioned so far, I feel that he would be the most capable of this as scum, but I find it unlikely. He also seems to care about scum-hunting and is really engaged with the thread. Whatever his rationale for his previous stances on me are, I feel they make sense as part of his mindset. The context of his play also really townie, and I read it as such. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
No love for the red team | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
On November 30 2012 06:15 Hapahauli wrote: <snip> GoodKarma (Slightly Town) While his early-game play was lacking (and pretty "scummy"), his recent defense is more than I'd ever expect from scum-GK. He's been incredibly forthcoming with his replies, and has been replying on very short time-stamps. When compared to the other scum-games I've seen out of him, it's very markedly different. In Newbie XXIII, he makes under ~10 posts on Day 1, and when a strong last-minute bandwagon forms on him, he is too scared to reply to the thread and gets himself lynched. In Mafia LVII, he makes a couple of longer posts with suspect logic, then peaces out from the thread for a couple of hours before making his next substantial reply. I have a hard time believing that GK could have transformed his scum-play so drastically in such a short time. He's being much more brave and forthcoming than anything I've seen in his scum-meta. Sure it's possible that he stepped-up his game and I won't discount that. However, he's showing no "guilt" or hesitation in his replies, and I believe they are coming from a townie (or atleast a non-mafia) GK. <snip> Hapa, you say you found GK scummy on day 1, but when you came in late for the election you proposed him in your party, why? + Show Spoiler + On November 23 2012 03:38 Hapahauli wrote: Fuck it, I'm running for party leader. After sitting down and looking at Syllo and Sandrob, I'm just not very happy with how things are going. They were two players who pushed to be leaders early on, then we as a town today really sheeped on to them as opposed to truly thinking things through. I'm guilty of that myself. Even if I don't convince you to vote for me, I hope whoever is running considers some of the town-candidates I put forth in this post. Why I oppose Syllogism I really object to the rationale in this post after thinking it over. Syllogism pitches non-disclosure of his team as "optimal play" which is garbage logic. We, as a town, gain so much less information from the voting process if we all sheep onto Syllo. He's suggesting that disclosing his reads would somehow be "less-optimal", and I can't for the life of me figure out why. In addition, as mafia, he would have plenty of incentive not to disclose his "list" - mafia don't want to provide analysis if they don't have to. Syllo's entire platform is "trust me," and I'm not willing to put D1 in the hands of such a player. Why oppose Sandrob http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=71#1413 I agree with a lot of what nl_Clarity said in this post. Sandrob campaigned really early and earnestly for his position, and then has all but disappeared from the thread. Sandrob hasn't contributed anything resembling a read, and this is not someone I want to be party leader D1. Why I oppose Kita Absolute joke campaign. My Proposed Party: nl_clarity Clarity has been one of the most engaged players in the game so far. He seems to truly care about what is happening and has the activity/content to back it up. This is the opposite of his scum-play in Newbie XXX (where he was far more distant in the early day), and I consider him strongly town. GoodKarma I really like the content he's posted so far, and I think it's far enough of a departure from what I've seen him to as scum to trust him. As scum he tries to blend in a lot more (Mafia LVII, Newbie XXIII), and him campaigning for party leader is the polar opposite of this. Dienosore He seemed to have claimed here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=51#1017 I have no reason to disbelieve him at this point, and he would need to have coconut-sized balls as a hypothetical scum playing his first game. Others I have considered Keirathi - I still consider him town, but I have stronger reads on the above three players iamperfection - someone who seems to be town based on my meta read on him. However, I ultimately decided against this since I feel he's capable of faking his meta in the early days. What's more telling about his allignment is if he can keep up his antics. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
Clarity: did you get an answer regarding full hp healing yet? | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
On November 30 2012 06:40 syllogism wrote: Hapa: that post reads like it was written out of obligation rather than out of genuine interest. Anyway, hope you realize you are never going to be included in the party until a role that explains why you didn't receive a PM about the heal flips. Clarity: did you get an answer regarding full hp healing yet? I didn't consider the possibility of him lying about him taking damage for some stupid reason, but yes it seems likely, since when someone is full hp they do not receive a pm saying "you are healed" | ||
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iamperfection
United States9645 Posts
On November 30 2012 06:40 syllogism wrote: Hapa: that post reads like it was written out of obligation rather than out of genuine interest. Anyway, hope you realize you are never going to be included in the party until a role that explains why you didn't receive a PM about the heal flips. Clarity: did you get an answer regarding full hp healing yet? i think we already covered this you would only get notification of heal it it does actual healing so if your full hp and get healed no notification. | ||
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GreYMisT
United States6736 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
My (Scum) Reads/Observations Observations As I mentioned previously, I think town is focusing too much on "spotlighted" players. We're trying to hunt for players actively drawing attention to themselves as opposed to looking for players who are trying to hide. Secondly, there is this seemingly inexplicable trend of several players having townie reads on Phagga. They make absolutely no sense to me. I actually feel Phagga's play has been scummy thusfar, and all of this seems like a way to set him up as an end-game player. But more on that in a minute. Phagga I think this is a very typical scum-player who never sticks his neck out and tries to appear agreeable. There's nothing in his filter that makes me think that he's town. He never takes a controversial stance, he's never confrontational unless the odds are stacked on his side (i.e. tunneling GK recently)... I strongly feel that he's trying to blend in with the crowd. Phagga's Super-Scummy Day 1: I like Sandroba's plan, his logic is sound. However, I find it dangerous to derive a town read from it, nothing is stopping scum to put up this plan to get themselfes elected. So first he agrees with Sandro's initial candidacy, but is hesitant. This is seemingly normal, but then things start to get strange. On November 22 2012 18:52 phagga wrote: @Goodkarma If you trust Sandro so much, why do you not vote him? If GK thinks Sandro is so townie that you includes him in your team, why should I vote you instead of Sandro? What do you say to the following: You are scum, you include a town sandro to make his team more townie, hoping to catch more votes like that. Goodkarmas candidature comes surprising, and I first liked his approach for the candidature. However, I voiced my suspicion of him yesterday, and his choice of Sandro for the team looks like a joke, as you can see in my questions to him. First he questions GoodKarma for some really really strange reasons. He insinuates that Sandro is townie, and therefore... GK is scummy... what? Nothing about this is coherent and it all reads as extremely forced. But perhaps more damning is that he never talks about a read on Sandroba outside of the three above quotes. Never reads him as town, scum, or anything. He's seemingly null on him, but then conjectures into association cases assuming that he's town. But then despite assuming that Sandroba is town in his analysis about "scum" GK, he votes kita: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=58#1155 ... Kita was always in the back of my head because I liked his opening post. I was aware that he went MIA for a while, but I still thought that his candidature was serious. So when I realized that barely anyone talked about him, I thought I'd use Acros post to see if I could get some info on what people thought about him. Also, as I wrote earlier, I do think more competition is needed, and since Toad is out of the race, that leaves Kita as the most promising competitor to Sandro/Syllo. Regarding his proposed team: Dieno has claimed after I talked about the possibility to be 3rd party, and the way is behaving I think I could meanwhile accept him in the party, although there are other players that I would prefer. Prom is the one I feel really unsure about. I hope Kita thinks that one over. Nevertheless, for the time being, he gets my vote. ##Vote Kitaman ... I cannot make out a coherent or sane rationale here for voting Kita. He's not voting because he thinks Kita is town - he's voting because he wants "competition" and that he likes Kita's first post. He doesn't mention that kita is townie (strange... right?), and supports him despite having some serious misgivings about Promethelax. This is all pretty funny, given that he mentions he has a town read on Syllo in the same post. But finally, after all is said and done, he votes Syllo at the very end of the day to cover his tracks (when it's really clear that Syllo is going to win the election): On November 23 2012 07:57 phagga wrote: Kita has not answered my question regarding his team. I would have very much liked to know if he still sticks with his old team and why. Alas, I am leaning slightly town on Kita, but feel better with Syllo. I have a stronger townread on him. I trust him to make good townreads for picking people. Therefore, my vote goes to Syllo. ##Unvote ##Vote Syllogism Phagga's "Bussing" of Sandroba Phagga's D2 filter reads as scum trying to push suspicion on easy candidates. When his cases ultimately go nowhere, he falls back and votes Sandro when it's clear that Sandro is going to get lynched. He first opens up with a completely unexplained vote on Cave Johnson: On November 23 2012 18:05 phagga wrote: My list with reads on everyone has one person painted in bright red: CaveJohnson. That's were my vote goes for now. However, my list is not up to date. I will try to go through several filters and update it, so I might make a more definite vote before Kita has to make his prediction. People who are also red in my list: - Goodkarma, although I REALLY have to go through his filter now. Have not done that yet. - BioSC, lurking hardcore although he was very excited pregame, as someone mentioned Other people I want to look into/know more about: - Sandroba, I read his filter yesterday. I want to hear more from him and what he says about the current accusations - Hopeless1der, I have "looks shady, check filter" note on him, but I don't know why anymore. Will clear this up. ##Vote CaveJohnson There is no analysis here. None. He votes Cave Johnson, and lists off four other names that he finds "scummy." He then builds a nonsensical case on GoodKarma: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=99#1965 I urge you to read the above, because it's completely substanceless. There is nothing in his analysis of GK that points to a scum GK. He basically suspects GK for "emotional detachment." Not scummy behavior, not anything. Just "emotional detachment." Then FINALLY, after it's clear that Sandro is going to get lynched: On November 25 2012 07:53 phagga wrote: Not finished with reading everything. Not feeling sure enough with Toad yet. I can agree to a Sandro lynch. His reluctance to defend himself, the way he talked about his scumreads (only mentioning names, barely any reasoning) and his lurking when under pressure are enough reasons for me to justify a vote. ##Unvote ##Vote Sandroba He's completely OK with lynching sandro. This is despite never following up with his reads on Cave Johnson or GoodKarma at all. No analysis. Nothing. I could go on, but I think that should sufficiently paint the picture of him as scum. That was longer than I expected, and I'm a bit tired of typing, so I'll post my other scumreads later tonight. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On November 30 2012 06:40 syllogism wrote: Hapa: that post reads like it was written out of obligation rather than out of genuine interest. Anyway, hope you realize you are never going to be included in the party until a role that explains why you didn't receive a PM about the heal flips. Clarity: did you get an answer regarding full hp healing yet? Actually yes, I did feel quite "obligated" to write it in a sense. I've been super-busy with school and haven't been able to sit down and provide any analysis. So I finally forced myself to sit down and type out my thoughts instead of lurking. As for me being a part of the party, well no I don't expect to be included. I also have no idea why you're obsessed with my lack of a heal PM. Fact is, I didn't receive any notifcation of a heal. Sure I could BS some shit about why, but that's not in the best interests of the town. Secondly, say I am lying about the PM (which I'm not) - what possible motivation could I have here to lie about not getting healed? If I knew I received the PM about me getting healed and I was scum, why would I intentionally lie about something that could be easily verifiable? It makes no sense, and I have no idea why you're pursuing the idea. Oh also since I forgot to mention: I didn't take any damage last cycle. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On November 30 2012 06:26 Clarity_nl wrote: Hapa, you say you found GK scummy on day 1, but when you came in late for the election you proposed him in your party, why? + Show Spoiler + On November 23 2012 03:38 Hapahauli wrote: Fuck it, I'm running for party leader. After sitting down and looking at Syllo and Sandrob, I'm just not very happy with how things are going. They were two players who pushed to be leaders early on, then we as a town today really sheeped on to them as opposed to truly thinking things through. I'm guilty of that myself. Even if I don't convince you to vote for me, I hope whoever is running considers some of the town-candidates I put forth in this post. Why I oppose Syllogism I really object to the rationale in this post after thinking it over. Syllogism pitches non-disclosure of his team as "optimal play" which is garbage logic. We, as a town, gain so much less information from the voting process if we all sheep onto Syllo. He's suggesting that disclosing his reads would somehow be "less-optimal", and I can't for the life of me figure out why. In addition, as mafia, he would have plenty of incentive not to disclose his "list" - mafia don't want to provide analysis if they don't have to. Syllo's entire platform is "trust me," and I'm not willing to put D1 in the hands of such a player. Why oppose Sandrob http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=71#1413 I agree with a lot of what nl_Clarity said in this post. Sandrob campaigned really early and earnestly for his position, and then has all but disappeared from the thread. Sandrob hasn't contributed anything resembling a read, and this is not someone I want to be party leader D1. Why I oppose Kita Absolute joke campaign. My Proposed Party: nl_clarity Clarity has been one of the most engaged players in the game so far. He seems to truly care about what is happening and has the activity/content to back it up. This is the opposite of his scum-play in Newbie XXX (where he was far more distant in the early day), and I consider him strongly town. GoodKarma I really like the content he's posted so far, and I think it's far enough of a departure from what I've seen him to as scum to trust him. As scum he tries to blend in a lot more (Mafia LVII, Newbie XXIII), and him campaigning for party leader is the polar opposite of this. Dienosore He seemed to have claimed here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=51#1017 I have no reason to disbelieve him at this point, and he would need to have coconut-sized balls as a hypothetical scum playing his first game. Others I have considered Keirathi - I still consider him town, but I have stronger reads on the above three players iamperfection - someone who seems to be town based on my meta read on him. However, I ultimately decided against this since I feel he's capable of faking his meta in the early days. What's more telling about his allignment is if he can keep up his antics. I think you misread me there. I'm saying his play in the "early game" was lacking and scummy. I quite liked his play D1. However, his activity dropped off a cliff shortly thereafter and that was the thing I found scummy in his "early game" play. | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
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