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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
On February 03 2014 03:45 lithyeld wrote: No tournament, no stream this week-end ? Give me some Starbow to watch please, or I start a "Starbow is dying" thread ^^ Go play starbow! | ||
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
http://www.esl.eu/eu/sc2/1on1/starbow_8 (I think this page will be changed soon as to show more info) | ||
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Deleted User 97295
1137 Posts
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AdelSC123
France362 Posts
On February 03 2014 04:04 HaRuHi wrote: Too bad the unit test map still uses the old values for muta collision boxes and stuff, you can't even stack them anymore like that in the new patch :d Oh, well I made an other video with a small trick i found trying to split them. Like i say in the video, im not sure how useful it is, but i'd say it should be good vs archons for example, you just split them ahead of time. http://www.twitch.tv/adelsc123/c/3655813 Edit: Bonus ambulance siren at the end. | ||
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HaRuHi
1220 Posts
On February 03 2014 06:35 HellKey wrote: Oh, well I made an other video with a small trick i found trying to split them. Like i say in the video, im not sure how useful it is, but i'd say it should be good vs archons for example, you just split them ahead of time. http://www.twitch.tv/adelsc123/c/3655813 Thanks I appreciate it.^^ Cool trick, not practical, but cool. Still, I would prefer the old way mutas stacked and unstacked. | ||
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HaRuHi
1220 Posts
If we don't change irradiate and give terrans marauders on a BW balance base, can darkswarm get it's original size and duration back? Zergs did not really get any compensations late game, did they? Also, after further testing, the Viper seems very weak. | ||
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Vejita00
United States11 Posts
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
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Koz
Brazil13 Posts
On February 03 2014 20:00 Xiphias wrote: We used to have more SC2 sized maps for Starbow and quickly discovered that it is very poorly balanced for those sizes. Also the very open and forward bases of many SC2 maps are horrible for Starbow. We'd rather just make more maps. Which we are! Stay tuned Can't wait  | ||
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
On February 03 2014 11:43 HaRuHi wrote: Hey guys, what happened to the balance test map? Is it not uploaded to US or coming later? If we don't change irradiate and give terrans marauders on a BW balance base, can darkswarm get it's original size and duration back? Zergs did not really get any compensations late game, did they? Also, after further testing, the Viper seems very weak. It will come, a bit delayed. Real life happens once in a while for Kabel. | ||
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Vehk
United States151 Posts
Is there a reason the Stalker is considered armored instead of medium? I can understand if it's that way for balance purposes but it just doesn't make sense when you look at it. I realize that it is armored in SC2, but with the addition of "medium" in Starbow along with the fact that the Stalker only has 100 health now it just seems like it should be medium. I think this distinction could help to further differentiate the Stalker from the Dragoon as well. -- The same might be said of the Firebat as well, but idk. At least according to the wiki the Marauder is medium, but the firebat is armored. It just seems like it should be the same as the marauder, just looking at the unit. | ||
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Zhadez10
Iceland39 Posts
On February 04 2014 04:34 Vehk wrote: Just a thought for the developers: Is there a reason the Stalker is considered armored instead of medium? I can understand if it's that way for balance purposes but it just doesn't make sense when you look at it. I realize that it is armored in SC2, but with the addition of "medium" in Starbow along with the fact that the Stalker only has 100 health now it just seems like it should be medium. I think this distinction could help to further differentiate the Stalker from the Dragoon as well. -- The same might be said of the Firebat as well, but idk. At least according to the wiki the Marauder is medium, but the firebat is armored. It just seems like it should be the same as the marauder, just looking at the unit. Hmm. Well for the firebat I think they should be "armoured" as they're in the frontlines and stuff.. but the thing is making them medium would be a buff to them. In particular hydralisks would do 75% dmg instead of 100% (In BW it did 50% but the firebat is very different between the games). The stalker would be more vulnerable to vultures (take 50% dmg instead of 25% when shields are gone)... but hydralisks and marauders will do less (100%->75%) as PvT is mostly terran going mech it'd probably be a nerf in that matchup but a buff for the PvZ matchup. | ||
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Brindled
United States508 Posts
You guys should apply! Might be a good way to affect the game positively in an official way with the Starbow mod! http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/12788493/blizzard-is-hiring-2-3-2014 | ||
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CutTheEnemy
Canada373 Posts
It's neat seeing BeastyQT stream, the way he thinks is interesting. | ||
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
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GoShox
United States1843 Posts
http://www.twitch.tv/smishox | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26237 Posts
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Beef Noodles
United States937 Posts
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
Bugs: + Show Spoiler + - Vipers can not Consume creep tumors - Corsair dmg adjusted so it deals proper damage vs all armor classes. (Earlier it did too much vs everything due to a bug) - Ultralisks now properly gain +3 damage per attack upgrade - Tons of small bug fixes for stuff who have been reported. Balance: + Show Spoiler + - Stimpack build time reduced from 154 to 124 seconds. - Firebat attack cooldown reduced from 1.87 to 1.47 (They attack faster) - Matrix energy cost reduced from 75 to 50 - Reaper bomb damage reduced from 60 vs all + 60 vs structures, to 60 vs all + 20 vs structures - Vikings in fighter mode are more agile while attacking. (Does no longer stand still for 2 sec while shooting) - Landed Vikings damage increased from 12 to 14. - Burrow now requires Lair. Cost reduced from 100/100 to 50/50. - Baneling starting movement speed increased from 2.14 to 2.24. (Still has the same speed value when upgraded. ) - Creep tumors energy cost reduced from 25 to 15. - Ensnare missile moves faster. - Scourge life reduced from 35 to 25. - Scourge overkill increased from 0.15 seconds to 0.25 seconds. (They are now more likely to overkill, if not microed) Explanation: + Show Spoiler + As mentioned in earlier patch notes, we look a lot at the balance of BW as a general guideline for Starbow. In TvZ in BW, Bio pushes were able to take map control much easier, and apply pressure vs Zerg. This is harder in Starbow due to the threat of burrowed early Banelings, and Bio overall being weaker, both in stats and maybe in production. Now Stimpack BT and Firebat damage is closer to correct BW values, which intends to help making Bio stronger. We also reduced the casting cost of Matrix, to encourage the use of it, which helps us to evaluate how well it fits into the game. Reaper is IMO a fun addition to the early stages of the game. Its upgrade intends to make Reapers viable even in the mid-game, and gives Terran a harassment tool who can pick off static defence and other targets via hit-and-run attacks. But mass Reapers are problematic, especially vs Z. For now we just reduced the bomb damage vs structures, which would better allow Spine crawlers to fend them off. Other adjustments for Reapers might come soon. Flying Vikings are now more agile in the air, and should feel more fun to micro. Its discussed if Vikings overall are worth to invest into or not, partly because they are quite weak in ground mode. A small damage buff on its ground weapon might help to improve its usefulness both as support in combat and as harassment unit. Burrow can not be researched on Hatchery tech, which should enable more early Bio pressure. In return, Banelings are slightly faster from start, which intends to still make them useful as early defence/pressure, mainly in ZvT and ZvZ. Zerg can still only build one Queen per Hatchery. This makes energy mangement more important, aswell as the decisions involved in how to use the Queen energy. Since Creep spread is weaker in Sbow, compared to SC2, we think a small reduction in energy cost for Creep tumors is justified. We are aware that all casting costs for spells in SC2 and BW are increased or decreased by 25. (25, 50, 75,100,125 etc) We aim to not break classic Starcraft-rules, but sometimes we make exceptions, if there are gameplay advantages gained from it. Currently Chrono Boost, Overcharge, Inject and now Creep tumors cost 15 energy, since that encourages more APM usage. Scourge life is now brought back to its BW values, to better maintain the relationship vs Corsairs. They are also now less efficient if not microed. There are two ways to go here: - Make units be shit if not microed, but good if microed. (Punish players for not doing micro) - Make units be good if not microed, but great if microed. (Encourage players to do good micro) Overall, units who benefits a lot from micro is much more fun to play with and watch. In case of Scourges, its easier to follow the BW approach - Zerg players with good Scourge control will benefit a lot in combats, compared to a Zerg players who just A-moves his Scourges. (And gets "punished" by overkilling many on the same enemy air unit) Future work for Starbow + Show Spoiler + There are surely many more things to look at. I will try to cover some topics here, and as always, you are all welcome to share your thoughts and feedback on the matter. Unlimited selection & Smart cast, and the effect it has on units. + Show Spoiler + Many units and spells from BW are brought back into Starbow, often with exact stats, and they are suppose to function within a new game engine and with new interface settings. Pathing, unlimited selection, smart cast, are some of the factors that likely impacts the balance in unseen ways. We have tried to compensate this for some units, for example is the Reaver damage weaker in Sbow, to compensate for its much smarter Scarabs. And we are constantly discussing and keeping an eye on this matter. Its argued that Vultures and Dragoons benefit a ton from the SC2 engine, compared to how they were in the BW engine. (Maybe even benefits the most of all units?) Its very common to see mass Dragoons fight vs almost everything in all match-ups. Or hordes of Vultures roaming the map. This might also be due to the effect of macro mechanics. (Reactors + Overcharge favor Vulture heavy play). Regardless, Vultures and Dragoons function differently in the SC2 engine, compared to BW, and they seem to dominate all match-ups quite hard. We play with the thought of nerfing Vulture attack range by 1, and make Dragoons attack slightly slower. (Attack speed perhaps nerfed from 1.87 to 2.) The purpose is to make it harder to rely on mainly one type of unit to win the game. But this is ofc merely a thought now. Maybe there are other ways. When it comes to spells, we are mostly concerned about Storm, Dark swarm, Irradiate and Shock at the Ghost. (The latter will probably be redesigned anyway since it is so spammy) A gift from Blizzard? + Show Spoiler + I wrote a letter to an employee at Blizzard where I asked if it would be possible for Blizzard to implement limited unit selection in the editor, maybe in a future patch, so it can be used for mods and custom games. They responded quickly and said it would be looked into. I am personally curious to see how the game would play out without smart cast and with limited unit selection, since I think there are some gameplay advantages gained by it. (Maybe 16 or 24 unit limit). Perhaps can that be released as an alternative hard-core version of Starbow... Might appeal to old Korean BW-veterans? ^^ Of course can a game be designed without a selection limit, but that requires some different solutions. (Which is what we try to work on now). This is not the most important thing in the world, but might be fun for those of you who have requested a removal of selection limit + smart cast. Ladder? + Show Spoiler + We are working on both a ladder with ranking, and a website for Starbow. More details will come within the next weeks. Things in the game that might be rebalanced/redesigned or removed: + Show Spoiler + Baneling is a big issue. In my opinion, there are a couple of gameplay advantages with them. But large Zerg armies with Mass Banelings in mid-game TvZ tends to not be that fun. Battles are over in seconds,.. and Terran Bio can not really escape from combats that well. In HoTS they have Medivacs for fast retreats, which would probably be a balance nightmare in Starbow. We consider to remove Banelings from the game, unless this patch was "enough" to help. Or if someone has any good solution for the whole Banelings vs Bio dynamic. Stalker and Roach do not feel that great. They could probably need some more design + balance work, so they truly feel like good additions for the game. Stalkers seem to be decently useful in PvZ, but is crap mainly in PvT, and probably in PvP. Energy upgrades for casters. They might be scrapped because casters already are so powerful due to smart cast. Spider mines might get a rework, so they function more like in BW. Decemberscalm will try his hardest to recreate them in the editor! Lair BT and Nurturing Swarm might need a second look. Nurturing swarm adds decision making for Zerg, but might affect balance too hard. Especially the timing when Mutas and Lurkers arrive. Lair is currently built 20 sec slower in Sbow, compared to BW. And tons of other things we look into... to make the game as fun and good as we are able to make it! What about the test map? + Show Spoiler + The test map will be used for trying completely new things, or heavily reworked and risky stuff. I aim to have it up with completed Protoss air units + new spells for Ghost in the near future, so all can play around with it to see how new stuff works. Map pool + Show Spoiler + We constantly aim to get more maps into the map pool. Big shoutout to Meerel and leZaeL who currently helps out a lot of improving the current maps, aswell as creating new ones! | ||
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Glitchy
2 Posts
Make them a little beefier but also give them friendly fire. Change the corrosive damage bonuses around a bit and instead of hooks, give them an ability that allows them to be launched a small distance after a delay. This is just me talking out of my ass of course and i realize it's kinda like a siege tank but it might be more interesting or fun? Please tell me off if this is a bad idea haha. | ||
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