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On May 21 2011 06:54 gejfsyd wrote:
In PvT, when you are fighting with a stalker-snetry-colossus-zealot ball against MMM+Vikings how should you micro? How to place force fields and what to target with stalkers? Also, do you target something with collosi?
Ideally, if you think you can win the battle, you get up 2 or 3 GS, then FF behind their army ( or at least a good portion of it) and attack with zealots in front. Killing off vikings in range should be a priority. Select chunks of stalkers that are closest to the vikings and shoot them down. Don't waste time trying to select only your stalkers, just box some stuff and right click on the vikings, the ground attacking units will ignore the command and keep fighting. If you have apm try to have the collossi shoot the clumped part of the army and not stray marauders, and occasionaly move back injured collossi and blink injured stalkers back. Also, try to have your GS cover your zealots by moving your sentries forward a bit.
Keep in mind that too much micro is actually bad sometimes so don't over do it.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On May 21 2011 07:20 F00LY wrote:
Does the number of games you play effect how easy/hard it is to raise MMR?
I ask because Ive been top ranked diamond in my division forever now. I was #1 in my division and on a 15 game winstreak, with 10+ of those wins against Masters players, and still never promoted. This isnt the first time its happened either.
Now that said, MMR is an average if I recall, and I have over 3000 games, so does that mean its going to be damn near impossible for me to move up?
Short answer: You can move up, just keep on winning games against players with higher MMR. It takes time, regardless of how many games you've played. It's a moving average, so it's based on your more recent MMR data points. Having once been bad will not effect future goodness.
Long answer:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=195273
+ Show Spoiler +On February 22 2011 15:13 Excalibur_Z wrote:PromotionBy outperforming the rest of your league, it is possible to get promoted into a higher league. If you are in Bronze but playing against Gold players, you would expect to be promoted to Gold, but that doesn't always happen immediately. This is because the system requires a certain degree of confidence before players can be moved to a new league, otherwise they would bounce around from league to league too frequently for leagues to be meaningful. That confidence is measured in two ways: First, the player must prove that he is capable of maintaining a certain level of skill. This is done by measuring the moving average of a player's MMR. The below image should help demonstrate. When this moving average stabilizes within the confines of a league, a player can be promoted into that league. ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/aYJDn.jpg) The second factor is a "confidence buffer" that exists between leagues. That is, if a Bronze player is only slightly better than the lowest-rated Silver players according to his moving average, that is not reason alone to promote him, even though he has crossed into the Silver MMR region. If that player slumped, he would fall right back into Bronze within a couple of games, only to return to Silver a couple of games later, making his promotion far less meaningful. Leagues are sticky, therefore the moving average must cross beyond the destination league's confidence buffer, cementing that player's position within the higher league. In the picture above, the confidence buffer is represented by the yellow glow region. Note that these are the only two factors required for promotion. Any in-game behaviors or statistics beyond winning, losing, and the opponent's MMR are not relevant to the system.
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First, in case you haven't read it, here's a thread http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=195273 with a very detailed explanation of MMR and ladder rankings.
The details are partially guesswork, because Blizzard does not publish how exactly their system works.
The answer to your questions are probably:
Does the number of games you play effect how easy/hard it is to raise MMR?
No. While in the very beginning, within your first small number of matches, it's really easy to change your MMR because the system hasn't the faintest idea of how good you are yet, it does NOT get progressively harder and harder forever. Even after your MMR has stabilized and it thinks it knows how good you are, if you keep playing at a level higher than that, the system will notice.
I ask because Ive been top ranked diamond in my division forever now. I was #1 in my division
The division rank doesn't actually help you get promoted; your MMR is separate.
Now that said, MMR is an average if I recall,
The MMR itself is not really an "average"; however, to be promoted, the system looks at your average MMR over the past [some not-too-long amount of time].
and on a 15 game winstreak, with 10+ of those wins against Masters players, and still never promoted. This isnt the first time its happened either.
It's possible that you're really just really close to the border. If you're right on the edge between diamond and masters, you'll occasionally go on pretty good streaks against low Masters players. But the system wants a little bit of a safety net - if you just barely cross over into Masters-level MMR, then it won't promote you, because it wants to be sure that a 10-15-game losing streak wouldn't be enough to drop you back down. There is a border region of MMR where if you're diamond, you won't get promoted until you raise it even more, but if you were Masters (at the same MMR), you wouldn't get demoted until it falls further down. (The game doesn't want those people to keep flip-flopping back between leagues as they go on good streaks and bad streaks, since everyone inevitably has streaks). If, after your 15-game win streak, you go back to about 50-50, you might end up staying in that border for quite some time.
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On May 21 2011 03:48 MrMonkfred wrote:
What's a good Zealot:Stalker:Sentry ratio in PvT against MMM? (Before & after collusi)
Also, how do I hold of a 3rax marine/scv all-in? I'm currently finding it impossible.
There isn't really a magic number. I can tell you what I do, in the late game you want 9 or 10 sentries, then as many stalkers as you can get with your gas, and then the rest in zealots. This seems to work for me on three bases with 3 gas getting +3/3 upgrades as fast as possible and charge + blink while playing mass gateway style. I transition out of it by taking 6 gas and a fourth and adding templars.
If i am going collossi 1 robo, I do the same thing except with 6 gases on 3 base.
The most imoortant thing is making a lot of zealot and constantly be upgrading your armor against MMM. Also in engagement, you usually want to back off when your zealots are dead ( blink back ) and wait for the next round of zealots.
For 3 racks scv all in, there is a whole thread about it called "cheesing your way to GM" with a lot of answers. You can go tell the op that he is awesome and wish him happy birthday.
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I'm a low-level Zerg who is trying out Terran to see if I like it. Is there any standard/solid build or strategy that I can use to get started? I'm not that great at micro, so maybe something that isn't that hard to execute?
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On May 21 2011 07:35 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 06:54 gejfsyd wrote:
In PvT, when you are fighting with a stalker-snetry-colossus-zealot ball against MMM+Vikings how should you micro? How to place force fields and what to target with stalkers? Also, do you target something with collosi? Ideally, if you think you can win the battle, you get up 2 or 3 GS, then FF behind their army ( or at least a good portion of it) and attack with zealots in front. Killing off vikings in range should be a priority. Select chunks of stalkers that are closest to the vikings and shoot them down. Don't waste time trying to select only your stalkers, just box some stuff and right click on the vikings, the ground attacking units will ignore the command and keep fighting. If you have apm try to have the collossi shoot the clumped part of the army and not stray marauders, and occasionaly move back injured collossi and blink injured stalkers back. Also, try to have your GS cover your zealots by moving your sentries forward a bit. Keep in mind that too much micro is actually bad sometimes so don't over do it.
Good answer. I want to stress however, your last point: don't try to over micro. You can be pro-level without doing extras like blinking injured stalkers back, moving sentries forward to get all units inside guardian shield, manually targetting with colossus, etc. Your main focus, in order of priority, is this:
1. Positioning. Keep your army together (don't want colossus to stray off too far back or in front), and keep zealots in front of stalkers.
2. Throw up GS.
3. FF behind (or even through/in the middle of the terran army).
4. Target fire vikings with stalkers.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On May 21 2011 08:05 Omegalisk wrote:
I'm a low-level Zerg who is trying out Terran to see if I like it. Is there any standard/solid build or strategy that I can use to get started? I'm not that great at micro, so maybe something that isn't that hard to execute?
Most Terran timing attacks are relatively micro-intensive, since you have to deal with Tanks in TvT, Banelings, zerglings, and infestors in TvZ, and Sentries and splash damage units in TvP. In fact, Terran is just a micro-intensive race in general [ADDENDUM: ALL RACES ARE MICRO-INTENSIVE, UNDER ALL CIRCUMSTANCES]. The easiest attack to make, though... would probably be a 1-base all-in 3 rax stim timing attack.
A common 1-base all-in is the 3 rax attack. You make
10 depot
12 rax
13 refinery
15 orbital command
Then, at your earliest availability, you get a tech lab on your first rax, and make 2 more rax. one of the 2 new rax will have a reactor. the other will have a tech lab.
The tech lab on your first rax begins researching stim as soon as possible. the tech lab on your other rax can get concussive shells and marine shields as you have gas for it. You want to attack when your upgrades finish with a sizeable force of marines and marauders. As soon as it is possible, you want constant marine and marauder production out of your 3 rax. Attack, use stim, and either kite or dodge banelings and forcefields.
This attack will work on most maps in most matchups. Against a sufficiently prepared opponent, however, it suffers build order loss. Because it doesn't expand, and you're stuck on low tech, a clever protoss player can abuse forcefields and survive with a 2gate robo expand or a 1 gate expo. Zerg can use banes, lings and crawlers to defend (and maybe just queens, lings and crawlers if he's got enough queens to transfurse). Terran could have bunkers or siege tanks, which would put you in a world of hurt.
It's easy to execute, though.
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On May 21 2011 07:20 F00LY wrote:
Does the number of games you play effect how easy/hard it is to raise MMR?
I ask because Ive been top ranked diamond in my division forever now. I was #1 in my division and on a 15 game winstreak, with 10+ of those wins against Masters players, and still never promoted. This isnt the first time its happened either.
Now that said, MMR is an average if I recall, and I have over 3000 games, so does that mean its going to be damn near impossible for me to move up?
MMR is not an average, but promotion/demotion is based on a moving average of your MMR. Excalibur_Z explains it here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=195273
That said, I think there might be a league freeze right now while blizzard works out some bugs.
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On May 21 2011 09:18 MoreFaSho wrote:
MMR is not an average
It's a rolling average of an array of records (games). The idiom used to handle the array is [probably] in "first in last out" schema, like a queue. It feels to me to be about 50 or so elements in length. I'd venture a guess of 64 elements.
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question about HT v Infestor:
If an HT uses feedback on an infestor after it has begun casting Neural Parasite, but before the tendril reaches it's target, does the feedback cancel the NP?
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When it comes to a base race... Do Creep tumors count as buildings?
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On May 21 2011 21:02 Stinson wrote:
When it comes to a base race... Do Creep tumors count as buildings?
No they don't.
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I'm making an assumption here: Missile Turrets should be able to shoot at a Colossus since Spore Crawlers are able to shoot at a Colossus.
Now the simple question is: How effective are Missile Turrets vs Colossus?
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On May 21 2011 22:35 twiitar wrote:
I'm making an assumption here: Missile Turrets should be able to shoot at a Colossus since Spore Crawlers are able to shoot at a Colossus.
Now the simple question is: How effective are Missile Turrets vs Colossus?
The answer is : not at all.
Colossi always have thermal lance upgrade which gives them range 9 whereas missile turrets have range 7 (or 8 with upgrade). Basically you will never see a turret shooting a colossi unless protoss miss microes.
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I know about Thermal Lance, I know about the range, matter of fact is just that Missile Turrets are cheaper than Vikings (best range vs Colossus) or Banshees (best DPS vs Colossus... unit-wise) and don't even cost any gas, which is why I'm looking into this as a potential "bunker up" kinda thing to do.
But, and that is my question that's still unanswered, how effective would Missile Turrets be vs Colossus? I'm talking damage, not "he has thermal lance and mismicroes". Depending on situational stuff they might prove to be useful, even though you can't move 'em like Spore Crawlers. :/
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On May 21 2011 22:48 twiitar wrote:
I know about Thermal Lance, I know about the range, matter of fact is just that Missile Turrets are cheaper than Vikings (best range vs Colossus) or Banshees (best DPS vs Colossus... unit-wise) and don't even cost any gas, which is why I'm looking into this as a potential "bunker up" kinda thing to do.
But, and that is my question that's still unanswered, how effective would Missile Turrets be vs Colossus? I'm talking damage, not "he has thermal lance and mismicroes". Depending on situational stuff they might prove to be useful, even though you can't move 'em like Spore Crawlers. :/
I don't get it : D
Just look at the liquipedia page for this, turrets deal 3 x more dps then vikings.
But that info is pretty useless as they won't EVER be able to shoot at a protoss colossus deathball.
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Don't think Lategame, think Midgame when the first Colossus arrives, potentially doesn't have Thermal Lance yet and a bunch of well-placed turrets within the tank line (and bio drawing back behind the tank line) making a Toss go all "What in the world is happening I don't understand anything anymore". Also Happy Birthday. 
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Nope, protoss players never engage with 1 colossus without thermal lance in a terran bunkered up tank line with MM support if that's what you were wondering ^^
If you want to kill a single range 6 colossus, building 3+ missile turrets is not the way to go.
But thinking outside the box is always good. You don't have to take my word on it so go on the ladder and do some experimenting
Thx for birthday !
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On May 21 2011 15:12 BlasiuS wrote:
question about HT v Infestor:
If an HT uses feedback on an infestor after it has begun casting Neural Parasite, but before the tendril reaches it's target, does the feedback cancel the NP?
No, as the energy is spent the second the the tendril leaves.
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Suppose it's PvP, the players have roughly even Zealot/Stalker/Colossus armies and even upgrades, and there's an engagement.
Is it better to have your Colossi focus down the enemy Colossi, or just let your Colossi attack the Zealots?
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EPT
