EPTAs someone said in previous pages, instead of saying "Bisu was such a great person and player and contributed to e-sports so~~~~ much and etc." he said what he said
iloveoov talks Bisu's possible relation with sAviO - Page 14
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Zera
Lithuania716 Posts
As someone said in previous pages, instead of saying "Bisu was such a great person and player and contributed to e-sports so~~~~ much and etc." he said what he said | ||
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sh4w
United States713 Posts
On October 11 2013 04:58 OpticalShot wrote: oov is not shitting on Bisu (nor the BW-streaming folks on Afreeca) people -_-;; He's saying with a big IF. IF Bisu plays with Savior on public stream it'll put Bisu at the same level [of maturity / consciousness] as Savior, etc. oov answered the question based on what he heard/read, the article doesn't indicate an exact source of his information. Then oov also says he got mad [at himself] for even imagining such a thing, then finishes the response with "I sincerely hope that it doesn't happen." Is there even proof that Bisu has already, is scheduled to, or was planning to play with Savior? Pretty much this. Basically said fuck savior, and that he doesn't think Bisu should play with him ever. And I pretty much agree with both of those things. I honestly think anyone who wasn't a progamer when the whole match fixing thing happened has any right to say whether or not savior is cool or not or whatever. It's a touchy subject. If BW was your entire life at one time, and someone completely jeopardized and shit on it, you'd probably feel differently. And considering he wasn't being as harsh as the OP led on, I'm not even sure why this discussion is still going on. | ||
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Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
There was Terror(?) vs Savior bo7 match where the loser promised to shave their eyebrows. Terror won 4:0 but Savior apparently refuses to carry out the punishment, the situation which is more complicated by the fact that Savior had a match with exact same punishment yesterday vs 봉준 where Savior won and the loser did exactly as he promised. | ||
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larse
1611 Posts
On October 11 2013 05:19 Hesmyrr wrote: Looks like there is shitstorm occurring on darker parts of Afreeca. There was Terror(?) vs Savior bo7 match where the loser promised to shave their eyebrows. Terror won 4:0 but Savior apparently refuses to carry out the punishment, the situation which is more complicated by the fact that Savior had a match with exact same punishment yesterday vs 봉준 where Savior won and the loser did exactly as he promised. Well savior defenders here are still going to support savior. | ||
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zeo
Serbia6343 Posts
On October 11 2013 04:51 Fuchsteufelswild wrote: ^The fact that people want to defend sAviOr and verbally shit on iloveoov just because iloveoov has a justified opinion they disagree with, as well as the fact that Bisu, still a hero to many, may be going to play games with (and effective indirectly endorse others doing so) said person who manipulated, pressured and stained the Brood War scene. People are basically expected to continue shunning sAviOr for what he did, so Bisu playing with him is like forgiving sAviOr and endorsing other people forgiving sAviOr. iloveoov happens to be one of many people strongly opposed to this. No, thats not it. Someone told oov that there is a rumor going around that Bisu will play a showmatch against savior. Somehow out of that unfounded rumor, oov feels the need to call out an entire community apparently just because savior happens to be playing the same game as them... justified opinion? More like causing a shitstorm for no reason. | ||
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DinoToss
Poland507 Posts
At least he's not Savior amirite. | ||
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EpiK
Korea (South)5757 Posts
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Shock710
Australia6097 Posts
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
And is Oov loses, he should shut up for the rest of his life. If sAviOr does, then he is banished from Afreeca. | ||
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Crisium
United States1618 Posts
"It looks like Bisu is having a good relationship with sAviOr? Then they are in the same level now." If it were "If Bisu plays with Savior, then they are on the same level", then I could sort of understand oov. But as it stands, just the fact that they have a good relationship means Bisu is on the same level as the lead matchfixer who goaded other players into ending their careers and helped lead to the end of pro-Starcraft? It must be some cultural honor by association that I don't understand. But, also importantly, is oov making sweeping judgements based on nothing more than hearsay. What evidence is there that Bisu and Savior still have a good relationship? The fact that Bisu dared watch his now ancient games against Savior? That's it? There was only fans asking for the two to play, nothing more. Oov is famous for brash interviews, but he really needs to not comment on rumours. He openly insulted Bisu and had no factual basis to do so. A coach shouldn't be doing this. | ||
white_horse
1019 Posts
On October 11 2013 05:22 zeo wrote: No, thats not it. Someone told oov that there is a rumor going around that Bisu will play a showmatch against savior. Somehow out of that unfounded rumor, oov feels the need to call out an entire community apparently just because savior happens to be playing the same game as them... justified opinion? More like causing a shitstorm for no reason. I believe it's a mistranslation from the OP. In his defense, the original text is worded slightly vaguely and can be misinterpreted. I have read the original text carefully and I do NOT believe that oov is burning the entire BW community on afreeca. People here are just skimming through the posts and calling for oov's head. I think it's about time we straighten this out. | ||
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juki
68 Posts
On October 10 2013 11:56 white_horse wrote: His text is worded slightly vaguely, which is why I can understand misinterpretation of the text. But I read very carefully, and I don't think that he means that he is against ex-players playing on afreeca in general, only that he is against players playing with savior. You can tell that savior really did play a part in BW's undoing, looking at the way people are still angry at him. iloveoov sounds pretty pissed in the interview when he's talking about the subject. But people on TL are still savior fans and saying idiotic things like "he was young and didn't no any better, we should forgive him"? Speaks volumes about the maturity level of some people here. Going back and reading again, I think this interpretation is more correct. Seeing as how this topic has kind of exploded, I think it's worth trying to go though this more carefully. I'll try to outline my thought process here here line-by-line and point out where the potential ambiguities are for me (other translators please chime in if you think something is incorrect): (Bolding added by me for emphasis) (Stuff in parentheses is my notes and not part of the interview text) 최근 김택용 선수의 은퇴를 보면서 어떤 생각이 들었나요? Interviewer: What thoughts do you have on Kim Taek-Yong's recent retirement? 일단 아쉬웠죠. 좋을 때 떠나는 게 아니라 더 아쉬워요. To start, it is regretful. He didn't leave on a high note so it is even more regretful. 최근 인터넷 개인방송에서 마재윤과 게임을 한다는 말도 있던데, 만약 정말로 게임을 한다면 마재윤과 똑같은 거죠. Recently I heard he is playing with Ma Jae-Yoon on Afreeca; if it is true that they are playing together, then he is the same as Ma Jae-Yoon. (Doesn't seem to be mad at Kim Taek-Yong unless this indeed happened) 그 사건이 터졌을 때, 당시 팀의 연습생 3명이 저한테 와서 울면서 앞으로 게임 계속 할 수 있냐고 하더라고요. When the match-fixing scandal happened, three of the practice partners on the team came to me crying, asking if they would be able to continue playing at all. 그 모습을 봤는데, 마재윤과 어울린다? 그러면 모두 다 마재윤과 동급 인거죠. Going through that, I hear that he/they (unclear if he is referring to only Kim Taek-Yong given the next sentence) are being friendly with Ma Jae-Yoon? Then they are all the same as him (clearly refers to multiple people here, but again unclear who exactly). 후배였던 다른 팀 선수들도 마찬가지예요. It is the same case with the players from other teams. (was this who he was referring to on the previous lines? From the text itself I wouldn't say so, but I don't know who else it could be) 은퇴한 많은 선수들이 인터넷 개인방송을 하는 것으로 아는데, 진정으로 e스포츠판을 생각하고, 후배들을 생각한다면 그럴 수는 없겠죠. I hear that many retired players are broadcasting on Afreeca; if they really are thinking of e-sports and their younger teammates, they wouldn't do that. (Herein lies the key point, what exactly is the 'that' which Choi Yun-Sung thinks that the retired players should not do? Is it streaming in general, or being friendly with Ma Jae-Yoon? Although reading this sentence by itself makes it sounds like the former, based on the context of the previous sentences, I am inclined to think that it is the latter, and that he is not against their streaming as a whole.) 택용이가 '마재윤과 게임을 할까?' 라고 생각했던 자체가 화나 나요. I am angry at the idea that Kim Taek-Yong would even consider the possibility of playing a game with Ma Jae-Yoon. (Again, doesn't seem like he condemns Kim Taek-Yong unless he actually did have such relations with Ma Jae-Yoon). 진심으로 그런일이 없었으면 좋겠네요. I hope that sort of thing didn't happen/doesn't happen. (This is clearly referring only to the possible game with Savior, and not Afreeca streaming) So, all in all, I don't think that iloveoov was denouncing Afreeca or Brood War streaming as a whole, but just any notion that any of the retired players would have friendly relations with Savior. Whether or not the hate for Savior is justified is a separate issue which people always seem eager to discuss. Sorry for any confusion that this might have caused or will continue causing... | ||
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OpticalShot
Canada6330 Posts
On October 11 2013 06:41 Crisium wrote: Obviously things are lost in translation. But it's the phrasing that bugs me: "It looks like Bisu is having a good relationship with sAviOr? Then they are in the same level now." If it were "If Bisu plays with Savior, then they are on the same level", then I could sort of understand oov. But as it stands, just the fact that they have a good relationship means Bisu is on the same level as the lead matchfixer who goaded other players into ending their careers and helped lead to the end of pro-Starcraft? It must be some cultural honor by association that I don't understand. But, also importantly, is oov making sweeping judgements based on nothing more than hearsay. What evidence is there that Bisu and Savior still have a good relationship? The fact that Bisu dared watch his now ancient games against Savior? That's it? There was only fans asking for the two to play, nothing more. Oov is famous for brash interviews, but he really needs to not comment on rumours. He openly insulted Bisu and had no factual basis to do so. A coach shouldn't be doing this. Okay really now, now it's about tone/phrasing? Honestly here let me use the same Korean source quoted in the OP and translate quickly. Going to use a ton of explanatory text to fill the gaps, and format it a bit for easier reading: + Show Spoiler [source] + Q. 그렇죠.(웃음) 그럼 이제 다른 이야기로 넘어가 보면, 최근 김택용 선수의 은퇴를 보면서 어떤 생각이 들었나요? 최연성 : 일단 아쉬웠죠. 좋을 때 떠나는 게 아니라 더 아쉬워요. 최근 인터넷 개인방송에서 마재윤과 게임을 한다는 말도 있던데, 만약 정말로 게임을 한다면 마재윤과 똑같은 거죠. 그 사건이 터졌을 때, 당시 팀의 연습생 3명이 저한테 와서 울면서 앞으로 게임 계속 할 수 있냐고 하더라고요. 그 모습을 봤는데, 마재윤과 어울린다? 그러면 모두 다 마재윤과 동급 인거죠. 후배였던 다른 팀 선수들도 마찬가지예요. 은퇴한 많은 선수들이 인터넷 개인방송을 하는 것으로 아는데, 진정으로 e스포츠판을 생각하고, 후배들을 생각한다면 그럴 수는 없겠죠. 택용이가 '마재윤과 게임을 할까?' 라고 생각했던 자체가 화나 나요. 진심으로 그런일이 없었으면 좋겠네요. + Show Spoiler [translation, unformatted] + Q: Yes (laughs). Now let's move on to other topics, what thoughts crossed your mind when Bisu retired? oov: First would be of regret. [The regret/disappointment] is augmented by the fact that he left when [he wasn't / the scene wasn't] doing so well. I've heard recently that Bisu [plays / will play] with Savior in his personal stream, and if that's true, that would put him at the same level [of maturity/consciousness] as Savior. When [the matchfixing and consequences] happened, three of our team's B-teamers came crying to me, asking me whether it'll be possible to continue playing games [in the team / as a career]. For those that witnessed such things to associate themselves with Savior again? That would put them at the same level as Savior. [Same/similar opinion] goes for players from other teams. My understanding is that many of the retired [BW-] progamers broadcast online in personal streams. [If those retired progamers] truly care for the eSports scene [and those that followed their lead into the same career], they wouldn't [play/associate with Savior]. I'm mad [at myself] for even asking myself whether Bisu would play with Savior. I sincerely hope that it doesn't happen. Q: Yes (laughs). Now let's move on to other topics, what thoughts crossed your mind when Bisu retired? oov: First would be of regret. [The regret/disappointment] is augmented by the fact that he left when [he wasn't / the scene wasn't] doing so well. I've heard recently that Bisu [plays / will play] with Savior in his personal stream, and if that's true, that would put him at the same level [of maturity/consciousness] as Savior. When [the matchfixing and consequences] happened, three of our team's B-teamers came crying to me, asking me whether it'll be possible to continue playing games [in the team / as a career]. For those that witnessed such things to associate themselves with Savior again? That would put them at the same level as Savior. [Same/similar opinion] goes for players from other teams. My understanding is that many of the retired [BW-] progamers broadcast online in personal streams. [If those retired progamers] truly care for the eSports scene [and those that followed their lead into the same career], they wouldn't [play/associate with Savior]. I'm mad [at myself] for even asking myself whether Bisu would play with Savior. I sincerely hope that it doesn't happen. *edit: going to also add that people should not jump to conclusions based on a loose two-step translation (assuming OP translated from the CN article, which was probably translated from the original KR article). Hell, even for direct KR -> EN, I've read some translators take 테란원탑 as "Terran One-Tower" I mean seriously? Where did the fucking tower come from? Is that what Google Translate gives you? 원탑, or one-top, refers to the single (one) player who is at the top (lmao ok he can sit on the top of the tower if he wants) of the subject (here the subject being the performance as a player using the Terran race). | ||
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Dontkillme
Korea (South)806 Posts
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Ciryandor
United States3735 Posts
On October 11 2013 07:14 Dontkillme wrote: Holy shit how long has it been since the sAviOr's matchmaking scandal? 4 years? Why do people still hate on him like he is hitler?? Because he's an unrepentant asshole who still wants to leech money off the scene he had a big part in tainting the image of. | ||
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NoobSkills
United States1603 Posts
On October 11 2013 07:14 Dontkillme wrote: Holy shit how long has it been since the sAviOr's matchmaking scandal? 4 years? Why do people still hate on him like he is hitler?? He chose to undermine the SCBW pro gaming scene for a FEW bucks. Not really just a few, but less than he would have made if he continued to be a pro gamer. He was also a style of zerg that was amazing to watch even more so than JD in some cases. That is why to any BW fan he will always be hated he was a hope for even more amazing gameplay and ruined the integrity of the game. | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
as for streaming, i understand where oov is coming from. bw pros were like a figure, replays were collected like mint mtg cards and now their mystical figure is shown to the world with streaming, so it loses this mystical property. however the fans want to see it and the ex-progamers need to make money so its a win win for both. in this i think oov can be convinced or not yet convinced before this interview | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
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fabiano
Brazil4644 Posts
before posting, especially on subjects highly suspicious (iloveoov being a bad guy?? 99% chance there is something wrong), read more posts... | ||
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Aunvilgod
2653 Posts
On October 11 2013 05:19 Hesmyrr wrote: Looks like there is shitstorm occurring on darker parts of Afreeca. There was Terror(?) vs Savior bo7 match where the loser promised to shave their eyebrows. Terror won 4:0 but Savior apparently refuses to carry out the punishment, the situation which is more complicated by the fact that Savior had a match with exact same punishment yesterday vs 봉준 where Savior won and the loser did exactly as he promised. rofl I love this. Its like I finally understand what people find interesting about celebrities... On October 11 2013 07:01 juki wrote: I hear that many retired players are broadcasting on Afreeca; if they really are thinking of e-sports and their younger teammates, they wouldn't do that. (Herein lies the key point, what exactly is the 'that' which Choi Yun-Sung thinks that the retired players should not do? Is it streaming in general, or being friendly with Ma Jae-Yoon? Although reading this sentence by itself makes it sounds like the former, based on the context of the previous sentences, I am inclined to think that it is the latter, and that he is not against their streaming as a whole.) This does make sense. Of course them streaming BW undermines the value of SCII as an esport. People won't take it serious if people retire just to play another game. And don't tell me that coexistence is truly possible, thats BS. The community is not big enough for that. | ||
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