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On March 22 2013 04:50 MMR-Stats wrote:
HotS support for MMR tool progresses slowly but surely. At the moment some memory reader improvements and support for character name changes are under testing. There has been lots of practical testing and results are promising. If no new issues arise then hopefully we can release new version during this week, but no promises yet.
It seems that the next version of MMR tool will slip to next week. There seems to have been delay regarding some memory reader improvements. After the improved memory reader is available, testing will take day or two. But if no new issues are found during testing, the tool should be ready for release.
Updates regarding other features: Character name change support tests passed. The character name change support is finalized when the new memory reader updates are done. Also fixed archiving bug that some may have encountered in the past. If there was no 'good game' during an archive season (-S8, S9-S10 (and S11 after new version)) the hardcoded MMR:s were set to -9999. After the fix all archived MMRs that could not be calculated or estimated are set to 0 (it takes one 'good game' during archive season to be able to estimate MMRs for all other matches). Old archive data is also fixed regarding this issue.
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Thanks for keeping us informed and out of the dark Korona. I know I'm not the only one eagerly waiting for the MMR plugin xD.
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Yes. When league skill tiers were removed in the beginning of season 9, the calculations became much more straightforward (only 1 tier per league).
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I LOST 7 GAMES IN A ROW WHEN I REACHED MASTER MMR IN HOTS. I wish the tool could tell me when I was there so I could start to play Macro games =P
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On March 25 2013 08:07 Chillyo wrote:
I LOST 7 GAMES IN A ROW WHEN I REACHED MASTER MMR IN HOTS. I wish the tool could tell me when I was there so I could start to play Macro games =P
I hope you're being sarcastic.
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Any update on how it is going?
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I just began playing WoL AFTER 2/28, no HotS purchased. Is there any way I could set all my games to "good" WoL games to estimate my MMR in this version? Or should it be working now for me already? (I'm also getting need game with better data 0/xx.) This whole good game/bad game nonsense is confusing the heck out of me with the new expansion at the same time. Thanks! BUSY
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On March 26 2013 05:54 Busybyeski wrote:
I just began playing WoL AFTER 2/28, no HotS purchased. Is there any way I could set all my games to "good" WoL games to estimate my MMR in this version? Or should it be working now for me already? (I'm also getting need game with better data 0/xx.) This whole good game/bad game nonsense is confusing the heck out of me with the new expansion at the same time. Thanks! BUSY
Sorry no can do. It would give you ok estimates if you had earlier good game. But you started after the lock so you don't have such. Please just wait for the HotS version. It will work both WoL & HotS.
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And update regarding the process. Just eliminating some false positive changes regarding memory reader & fixing interesting unranked detection bug. If you leave immediately from the game, the web profile likely updates faster than the tool can fetch the web profiles for pre-game data. As result the pre-game profile is then the same as post-game profile and the tool determines that the match was unranked. I will probably fix this by adding minimum match length requirement before unranked detection switches on. Hopefully in the future there will be more reliable way to detect unranked matches than the web profiles.
Edit: And checking minimum length from the replay is likely not enough. As if the user remains idling & does not leave the game immediately, the replay length exceeds minimum length even if the web profiles update immediately. I should probably search for first leave action from replay and determine the length based on it. Or just leave a special case that match lasting few seconds can be considered as 'unranked' game and not recorded at all.
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Hi Korona,
Do you know the minimum MMR's for each league for this season or will that have to be gathered after the upgrade?
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On March 27 2013 07:26 Aimconquest wrote:
Hi Korona,
Do you know the minimum MMR's for each league for this season or will that have to be gathered after the upgrade?
The offsets likely changed for this season (like e.g. the new league distribution targets suggest). Data needs to be collected to be able to count the new offsets. It is unknown how close the old offsets are to the current ones - some may be close, some may be way off. Thus after the updated MMR tool is published matches against players from same league should give correct relational results (if can be calculated). But matches against people from other leagues can give inaccurate values. But after the offsets are solved, the old calculations for data collected with the HotS version of the tool are corrected automatically.
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And update regarding the progress. You may have noticed that I have already edited the first post little bit (update sc2gears to latest version). We are getting close to release (if new bugs that need attention do not emerge). Testing is currently focused on finding suitable web profile fetch delays & minimum length of match before unranked detection activates (we were getting false positives due to web profiles not updating promptly. This is major issue as unranked data is ignored by the tool). Blizzard's web profiles are sometimes sluggish to update and fetch delays are needed + web profile update responsiveness differs for different servers. This causes problems regarding short matches (roughly less than one minute long matches). For example current test values for delays are 40 sec delay from match start to fetch pre-game profile (shorter delay sometimes gives 1 match too old data & for matches that end immediately it may already be post-game data), 40 sec delay from match end to fetch post-game profile and 30 sec minimum match length requirement before unranked detection activates. I will probably add extra post-fetch delay on very short matches to make sure that the post-fetch does not happen partially simultaneous as pre-fetch (both are running in their own threads). Will check today (Wed) late evening (EU timezone) if test results are ok for release. If not then release slips at least a day more.
Edit: Postponing at least a day. Test results are promising. Fixed a bug where pregame data was not set bad immediately in certain case. Later code would have determined it bad anyway but would have resulted odd error message. But better do more test games to be sure that the fix had no side effects (+ to get more confidence that the set values regarding unranked detection are good enough)
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Can't wait for the Hots update 
Thanks a lot to the staff for your work on that plugin
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I wonder, might it be able to calculate your mmr for your unranked games as well? That would be pretty helpful. I just want to see how the program works though at all cause I've never used it before xD.
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United States12268 Posts
On March 28 2013 13:22 TrickNachos wrote:
I wonder, might it be able to calculate your mmr for your unranked games as well? That would be pretty helpful. I just want to see how the program works though at all cause I've never used it before xD.
I wouldn't count on it. The plugin's estimated MMR value is derived from the change in your opponent's points after a match. Without that data, you can't determine anything.
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On March 28 2013 15:16 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 13:22 TrickNachos wrote:
I wonder, might it be able to calculate your mmr for your unranked games as well? That would be pretty helpful. I just want to see how the program works though at all cause I've never used it before xD. I wouldn't count on it. The plugin's estimated MMR value is derived from the change in your opponent's points after a match. Without that data, you can't determine anything.
People in unranked play ranked people and the ranked person loses/gains points even though your playing unranked. Although it wont be able to see how many points you make/lose for obvious reasons.
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I heard the unranked person's MMR is still affected, just not their ladder points. Should still be able to figure out MMR values.
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On March 28 2013 15:16 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 13:22 TrickNachos wrote:
I wonder, might it be able to calculate your mmr for your unranked games as well? That would be pretty helpful. I just want to see how the program works though at all cause I've never used it before xD. I wouldn't count on it. The plugin's estimated MMR value is derived from the change in your opponent's points after a match. Without that data, you can't determine anything.
Current HotS version simply drops data for the unranked games + tie games (without data you cannot calculate). But it should be possible especially as it counts the MMR from the opponents data & many opponents are playing ranked. But support would need more changes to the code, such as separating unranked profiles, more work on 'tie' detection (tie games are ignored by the tool too and are caught by the current unranked detection). Actually in HotS version some changes are already started such as adding necessary fields to data structures & save formats. But it is not necessarily worth the effort at the moment as detection is not 100% (one can hope that in the future some elusive field or fields separating unranked & ranked games would be found from replay files or added by Blizzard if there is no such in current replay format). Also if it would have done now, it would have postponed the release more and would have added more potential breaking points to the tool. Most important thing now is to make sure that the conversion did not break anything and if something got broken it can be tracked down & fixed.
Also if unranked profiles would be added, then we would have potentially huge amount of profiles. For example if a user has stored 4 characters to the tool (one for each server). After HotS conversion that user has 8 profiles in the tool (4 x HotS + 4 x WoL). If unranked profiles would be added then that user would have 16 profiles. --> It would require some redesign of the UI too, to make switching from profile to profile more intuitive.
But it is unlikely that unranked profiles are added to the tool near future. For example I will have busy schedule until summer & will try to minimize the effort that goes into tool after the HotS conversion (the offset calculations & small fixes don't take that much time. Thought offset calculations for WoL may be skipped as it is unlikely that we get enough WoL data as most users likely switch completely to HotS. One can hope that Blizzard uses same offsets for both, but I think it is likely that Blizzard has to adjust the offsets for WoL as the size of the WoL userbase crashed down). The HotS conversion has taken much more effort than hoped for and pushed some personal stuff that should already be started into the future...
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Is the offset from diamond to masters a known variable and if so what is it?
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On March 28 2013 16:37 Chillyo wrote:
I heard the unranked person's MMR is still affected, just not their ladder points. Should still be able to figure out MMR values.
Are you saying that the outcome of an unranked game affects that players ranked MMR? I don't know where you heard that, but hopefully that's not the case. You could abuse that fairly easily:
- Tank a bunch of unranked games to lower your ranked MMR significantly.
- Play ranked with your new, lower MMR and rack up easy wins against lower skilled opponents.
- When games become challenging again, go back to tanking matches in unranked.
I'm guessing that what you actually heard was that an unranked game affects the player's unranked MMR, which is a separate MMR from their ranked one.
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On March 29 2013 04:16 mvdunecats wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 16:37 Chillyo wrote:
I heard the unranked person's MMR is still affected, just not their ladder points. Should still be able to figure out MMR values. Are you saying that the outcome of an unranked game affects that players ranked MMR? I don't know where you heard that, but hopefully that's not the case. You could abuse that fairly easily: - Tank a bunch of unranked games to lower your ranked MMR significantly. - Play ranked with your new, lower MMR and rack up easy wins against lower skilled opponents. - When games become challenging again, go back to tanking matches in unranked. I'm guessing that what you actually heard was that an unranked game affects the player's unranked MMR, which is a separate MMR from their ranked one.
Unranked games affect player's unranked MMR. Ranked games affect player's ranked MMR. If either MMR does not exist, the one that exists is used as basis for the other. More info: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=400828
But when the player is playing unranked game and his opponent is playing ranked game, it is possible to calculate player's unranked MMR from the opponent's data.
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EPT
