• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 13:12
CEST 19:12
KST 02:12
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins Maestros of the Game 238ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7
Community News
BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion6BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion6Weekly Cups (June 29-July 5): Solar Doubles0MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon445.0.16 Hotfix (June 30) - Balance + Bug Fixes40
StarCraft 2
General
What is your PC setup in 2026 for SCBW/SC2 ? Most successful SC2 players of Q2 2026 Serral wins Maestros of the Game 2 MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon Is the larve respawn broken?
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event GSL CK #5 Race War HomeStory Cup 29 Vespene Cup #1 — $300+ USD, July 10 Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
Mutation # 533 Die Together The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery
Brood War
General
BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion FlaSh: This Will Be My Final ASL【ASL S21 Ro.16】 ASL22 General Discussion ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL22] Wildcard Qualifier [Megathread] Daily Proleagues IPSL Spring 2026 Top 4! CSLAN 4 is Coming!
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Summer Games Done Quick 2026! Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Power Rank Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Tennis[sport] Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard? Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Major Shifts in the Gaming I…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6283 users

TSL's Coach Lee speaks out on PuMa - Page 12

Forum Index > SC2 General
764 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 10 11 12 13 14 39 Next All
hjkim1304
Profile Joined December 2010
Korea (South)105 Posts
July 22 2011 05:58 GMT
#221
yea say what you will, but I think this is just morally wrong by EG... I mean... sure you didn't break any rules or regulations, but you gotta learn to respect the team and the coach. I'm just disappointed, that's all. I don't think i'll look at the team EG the same ever again.
Fighter
Profile Joined August 2010
Korea (South)1531 Posts
July 22 2011 05:59 GMT
#222
It seems so strange to me that now there are interviews like this, which seem to suggest a failure within Korea with respect to StarCraft. I love the fact that SC2 is doing so well in the rest of the world, but it'll be very interesting to see where SC2 goes from here. Part of what makes the Korean scene so competetive is that the relatively small geographical space allows for accessible pro houses. Sure, you can set up pro houses elsewhere, but they're less appealing when you have to move further away from friends and family to be a part of them.

Will Korea just be a breeding ground for good players before they get siphoned off to the west? That would be a hell of an interesting scenario if it became common place...
For Aiur???
Dantat
Profile Joined April 2011
170 Posts
July 22 2011 06:02 GMT
#223
Sangho and Clide are true nerd ballers.

I hope they lead their team to a GSTL championship victory.
Sworn
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada920 Posts
July 22 2011 06:03 GMT
#224
Ya I agree for the most part that what EG did was absolutely HORRIBLE! Imagine if when Idra was staying in korea if one of the teams just came out of nowhere asked him to play for them and didn't even talk to EG. EG would have been furious losing their star player and it's the same for TSL. I really wish EG would issue an apology at least.
"Duty is heavy as a mountain, death is light as a feather." CJ Entus Fighting! <3 Effort
las91
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States5080 Posts
July 22 2011 06:04 GMT
#225
I have gained a lot of respect for both the coach of TSL, as well as Sangho and Clide over their commitment to the team they began to play SC2 with. I am quite interested to hear an official statement from EG, especially if it manages to convey the incredible respectful and polite tone that Coach Lee took and found (I'm sure) incredibly difficult to maintain.
In Inca we trust
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
July 22 2011 06:06 GMT
#226
On July 22 2011 14:57 Ownos wrote:
Because EG did not contact Coach Lee first.

"That he shouldn’t leave like this and that this was not an agreement made through the right channels, nor an official trade between two teams."

Please do try to read the OP of BOTH threads carefully. We already have too many people not fully understanding why, of all Korean-foreigner partnerships/acquisitions, this one happens to be a big deal (bigger in Korea).

Ditto to you.

EG gave Puma a business card at NASL, when Puma was in the Ro4. I find it highly unlikely that they went into some big aggressive push when a player was still set to play the Semi-finals (and possibly finals) of a big tournament.

By all accounts, it was Puma that took the signing discussions further. While that doesn't change the fact that proper channels were ignored, you can't expect a team to shut the door in a player's face when he was the one that actually approached them seriously.

And while no one knows how the discussion between Lee and Puma actually went, I can at least imagine that Garfield thought Lee would be contacting him so they could have a mutual announcement.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
Midgetman101
Profile Joined February 2011
United States825 Posts
July 22 2011 06:08 GMT
#227
Very sad story
~Terran For Life~
IslandLife
Profile Joined March 2011
21 Posts
July 22 2011 06:09 GMT
#228
On July 22 2011 14:41 Daniel C wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2011 14:38 IslandLife wrote:
Asian and Asian-American culture is very different than Western culture about 'honor and respect' in things like this.


I can give you plenty of real-life examples of Koreans renegging on contracts, going back on their word, siphoning money out of workers' pensions, tax evasion, etc. Comments like the above are ignorant. Public disgrace is taken rather seriously, but that doesn't matter if you don't get caught.

Puma had no contract so he was free to make his own decision. Did they even think to offer him one the minute he got off a plane after winning NASL??


Yes, every human being and every culture is the same.


Don't be silly. If you don't have a contract, you don't have any claim. It's a bit offensive to have someone claim "honor" is more important in Asian culture than Western culture. My point is I think that's an invalid argument in this case. I think it's a great move by Puma and I look forward to seeing him play more in America.
Yah mon!
kdmx
Profile Joined April 2010
United States23 Posts
July 22 2011 06:10 GMT
#229
On July 22 2011 15:03 Sworn wrote:
Ya I agree for the most part that what EG did was absolutely HORRIBLE! Imagine if when Idra was staying in korea if one of the teams just came out of nowhere asked him to play for them and didn't even talk to EG. EG would have been furious losing their star player and it's the same for TSL. I really wish EG would issue an apology at least.


Yeah, it's absolutely horrible that EG pays their players. They are killing E-Sports! Stop with the overly dramatic BS already.
h0peless
Profile Joined February 2011
United States5 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-22 06:15:06
July 22 2011 06:13 GMT
#230
Shouldn't we care most about Puma? I mean, suppose EG didn't talk to him first but contacted TSL directly. Then what? Well at best it would have given TSL more time to guilt trip Puma into staying. At worst, they might have tried to deceive him (not saying they would have, just.. at worst you know..)

But in the end Puma would have probably still made this decision and TSL would be in the exact same shape they're in now.

edit: also, suppose Puma's skill starts dropping because TSLs practice regiment was just so much better. Everyone will see that, and then anytime a korean will get an offer from the west they'll say "no thanks you guys don't practice well enough" - anything can happen.
Pick a job, and become the person who does it.
TheButtonmen
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada1403 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-22 11:32:01
July 22 2011 06:15 GMT
#231
On July 22 2011 15:03 Sworn wrote:
Ya I agree for the most part that what EG did was absolutely HORRIBLE! Imagine if when Idra was staying in korea if one of the teams just came out of nowhere asked him to play for them and didn't even talk to EG. EG would have been furious losing their star player and it's the same for TSL. I really wish EG would issue an apology at least.


1. EG wants a top level Korean player.
2. Top level Koreans come over to NASL finals.
3. EG hands out cards seeing if anyone is interested.
4. Puma is interested and talks to EG staff, when they find out he is open to the idea of working for them, has no contract and no salary they need to compete with they lay out what they are prepared to offer, Puma is interested but he wants to be the one to talk to his coach rather then EG, EG agrees.
5. Puma talks to his coach, coach isn't impressed and thinks that Puma and EG have gone and signed behind his back. (Please note that EG and Puma haven't signed or agreed to anything yet.)
6. Coach feels disrespected and starts this whole thing with his posts.
7. The standard drama fueled shitfest occurs.
8. EG finds out about all of this.
9. Coach clarifies what he meant / what happened as mis-communications start to get cleared up (hell he even throws Puma a goodbye party)
10. EG speaks out on Lo3, saying they didn't do anything wrong and they followed their potential new players wishs. (Again note that EG and Puma still haven't signed anything still.)
11. Dramallamas continue to frolic.
12. EG opens mouth and inserts foot re: what team liquid is for (while I agree partially with them this sure as hell wasn't the time).
13. Even more shit hits the fan as TL defends one of their own.
14. I eat an orange.
15. I write this post.

So where exactly in this chain of events do you think EG crossed the line and needs to apologize?

This was all basically EG doing their best to recruit some new blood, Puma doing his best to find the best option offered to him, TSL not being able to compete due to their lack of cash flow and a tragic misunderstanding between Puma and Coach Lee which started an epic drawn out shitfest.
Dakk
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Sweden572 Posts
July 22 2011 06:16 GMT
#232
Man, seams as if he is having a hard time dealing with this.
I will not fear, Fear is the mindkiller. Fear is the little death.
Applecakes
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia319 Posts
July 22 2011 06:18 GMT
#233
I wish I could send coach Lee a message of support
SlipperySnake
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
248 Posts
July 22 2011 06:19 GMT
#234
I am so tired of reading "proper channels" over and over again. There are no proper channels between teams because the teams don't have agreements between themselves. The only thing that is of any substance is the contract between a player and his team. If this contract has backout clauses that need to be negotiated then the teams can talk but if there is nothing other than feelings and honor then it is all on the player.

All this faux outrage is just ridiculous.
Grampz
Profile Joined November 2010
United States2147 Posts
July 22 2011 06:19 GMT
#235
the whole situation is just mind boggling. He is right, the korean sc2 scene is lagging behind. 1 Tournament in the "Nation's capital" so-to-speak, is just absurd. I am really glad the foreign scene is catching on but that means this kind of stuff will happen more often, because it is supposed to happen since there's really no reward for playing in korea. Really upsetting story.
TrickyGilligan
Profile Joined September 2010
United States641 Posts
July 22 2011 06:23 GMT
#236
I can't say I'm a big EG fan, but I'm having trouble seeing how they're the bad guys in this.

Not only did TSL not contract their players, they were in so much financial trouble that no was was getting paid. Players were even giving money back to the team to help it survive. How are they surprised that players would want to seek out other opportunities? Gotta pay people to keep them around, if you can't get sponsors or pay a salary,I don't see how you should expect your players to remain faithful.

I see this as a good thing for ESPORTS. The best players are following the money. If they do well and people show enthusiasm for this kind of thing, sponsors will start providing even more money. All this does is strengthen the competition and the scene as a whole, I'm all for it.

Oh, and put your players under contract, for god's sake. No contract = free agent = up for grabs.
"I've had a perfectly wonderful evening. But this wasn't it." -Groucho Marx
TheGiftedApe
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1243 Posts
July 22 2011 06:24 GMT
#237
It's really sad what has happened to TSL. As I was a big TSL fan as soon as fruitdealer and Tester joined them, especially since I recognized Coach Lee from Hyung Joon Becomes a pro gamer. With Fruitdealers beautiful play in season one that set the standard for GSL play and My personal sc2 crush on Tester since I main protoss. But with rain, puma, FD, ssks, all leaving it's kind of sad, it seemed at one time that TSL was by far the most dominant SC2 team, and now they are in turmoil.

I hope Coach Lee can summon some words of wisdom and motivation that will help to make this team into a top SC2 team once again.
xO-Gaming.com || [xO]TheGiftedApe.364 || xO-Gaming Manager.
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
July 22 2011 06:24 GMT
#238
On July 22 2011 15:09 IslandLife wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2011 14:41 Daniel C wrote:
On July 22 2011 14:38 IslandLife wrote:
Asian and Asian-American culture is very different than Western culture about 'honor and respect' in things like this.


I can give you plenty of real-life examples of Koreans renegging on contracts, going back on their word, siphoning money out of workers' pensions, tax evasion, etc. Comments like the above are ignorant. Public disgrace is taken rather seriously, but that doesn't matter if you don't get caught.

Puma had no contract so he was free to make his own decision. Did they even think to offer him one the minute he got off a plane after winning NASL??


Yes, every human being and every culture is the same.


Don't be silly. If you don't have a contract, you don't have any claim. It's a bit offensive to have someone claim "honor" is more important in Asian culture than Western culture. My point is I think that's an invalid argument in this case. I think it's a great move by Puma and I look forward to seeing him play more in America.


By no means is it offensive, it is in fact true. If you put everything on a whiteboard then it's completely fair and legal. I agree on this point. By no means did AG do anything illegal. However the means he took to aquire a player, while in the western world, is perfectly fine and acceptable, but in Korea is extremely disrespectful. The coach treats his players as his own children, he feeds them, gives them a place to stay, and tries to do his utmost to assist them. When Clide and Sangho both feel indebted enough to give back their stipends/salary to help the team, you know how strong the bond is.

I can guarantee you AG does not share the same bond with his players, he may meet them several times a month, review salaries and performance, maybe drop by once in a while to watch practice, but the western system doesn't allow for such loyalties to form.
Porouscloud - NA LoL
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
July 22 2011 06:24 GMT
#239
On July 22 2011 15:19 SlipperySnake wrote:
I am so tired of reading "proper channels" over and over again. There are no proper channels between teams because the teams don't have agreements between themselves. The only thing that is of any substance is the contract between a player and his team. If this contract has backout clauses that need to be negotiated then the teams can talk but if there is nothing other than feelings and honor then it is all on the player.

All this faux outrage is just ridiculous.

I know what you mean. All I'm really getting from this is that Korean teams are somehow "family", and Coach Lee thinks there should be a system in place to stop "family members" from leaving if they want to.

If the cultural bond was really as strong as all these posters say it is, Puma wouldn't have talked with EG at all.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
LuckyMacro
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1482 Posts
July 22 2011 06:26 GMT
#240
Any final words?
First of all, I would like to apologize to FruitDealer and Tester for not fulfilling what I’ve promised to do.


Coach Lee T.T

Prev 1 10 11 12 13 14 39 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
IPSL
16:00
Ro4 M2
Bonyth vs Hawk
Airneanach84
LiquipediaDiscussion
Showmatch
15:00
Shopify Rebellion Sunday #7
SHIN vs TBDLIVE!
Harstem784
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Harstem 784
SpeCial 127
BRAT_OK 114
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 20947
Calm 3659
Shuttle 1308
Hyuk 818
Jaedong 531
Mini 464
ggaemo 174
Soulkey 113
firebathero 110
actioN 107
[ Show more ]
Mong 82
soO 37
Free 35
Sexy 29
scan(afreeca) 28
Rock 20
HiyA 19
zelot 18
Purpose 13
Hm[arnc] 12
yabsab 12
Noble 7
Dota 2
qojqva2829
XaKoH 770
Counter-Strike
fl0m1943
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu326
Other Games
gofns23908
B2W.Neo1326
Liquid`RaSZi1164
Beastyqt469
Hui .226
ArmadaUGS112
Rex14
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick3042
BasetradeTV259
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis3515
Other Games
• Shiphtur272
Upcoming Events
OSC
6h 48m
GSL
17h 48m
Monday Night Weeklies
22h 48m
Replay Cast
1d 6h
WardiTV Weekly
1d 17h
The PondCast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
CrankTV Team League
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
CrankTV Team League
4 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Clem vs Lambo
Scarlett vs Cure
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Classic vs Trap
herO vs SHIN
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 22: Wild Card Qualifier
HSC XXIX
Eternal Conflict S2 E1

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
YSL S3
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
SCTL 2026 Spring
Eternal Conflict S2 E2
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W3
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 1
Escore Tournament S3: W4
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 2
Escore Tournament S3: W5
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E3
Logitech G Connect 2026
StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.