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United States383 Posts
On November 01 2011 01:50 Kreb wrote:
Problem with ESL and ESWC seems quite well known. The discussion just always passes by after a while, only to be brought up again now and then, like in this thread. And while its a bit sad, i guess its almost expected that small cups have this issue.
Im a lot more surprised about IPL, DH and also that Italian and Norwegian LAN which all have been mentioned here.
I dont think IEM qualifies as a small cup...
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On November 01 2011 01:46 Liquid`HayprO wrote:
yeah ive had similar experiences. would be nice if they got more professional. u get dqed for being 15 min late.
This is so insane when you think about it lol.
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Didn't know so many organisations were like that, very surprised not many players complained about that publicly
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I updated my list with approximate amounts of money owed, might be slighty off in some instances:
Dailymotion Cup 200$ or €
EPS Season 17 ~450€
EPS Summer 2011 ~300€
Dreamhack Winter 2010 BYOC Qualifier (3000 SEK ~ 320€)
Epiccup invite turnier 50$
Virus invite turnier (100 or 150)$
IPL Season 2 400$
WCG National Finals (Hardware prize)
GeForce Pro Turnier 1575$ + hardware
TheGreat Showmatch hardware
Zotac Monthly Final September 500€
19.10.2011 ESL Monthly Final September 500€
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If eSports is going to get like the other sports the players must make the tournament organizers understand that you are not going to stand for this. You need to get everything in WRITING. I know that a lot of players are young or even very young but you need to understand that some of these people don't intend to pay you. People are going to take advantage of your young age (yea I know it sounds like I'm really old). No, you shouldn't have to beg for your money, it's your money!
When you sign for a tournament, make sure you get everything in writing, with the last day of payment from the organizers. Make sure that players ban those tournaments that don't pay up.
If you can get it in writing you can always take things legally with them, and even if you don't intend to you can say that you will. I think that perhaps team leaders should have this discussion with the organizers of every tournament for, let's say a few months, so the organizers know that you are serious, and so that you as players can focus on playing instead of arguing with the organizers.
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ya its very annoying when players has to figure out how to contact orgas and then ask for the money, and then remind them over and over
esl iem cologne was like this for me but i did get paid eventually. theres been a few small tours i cant remember the name of that didnt pay but didnt bother to work my ass off to get some small bucks
i think orgas should take initiative of the payment, tell when they are getting paid and actually pay. not sure if blizzard wants to take a part in this.
also it doesnt interfere too too much with actual teams or their sponsors since this tournament money goes to the player. and people who watch arent really aware of the exact situation aswell.
so at the end of the days its the players who are getting fucked over and im glad cloud pointed this out, i think similar threads has come up on TL before tho that ended up losing interest or getting closed tho
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that really sucks 
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Payment dates should be in the tournament or league contracts, same thing with sponsor contracts. Idk why the wheels should be re-invented for e-sports.
GJ making the call Cloud!
PS: Won't watch non-paying tournaments again, it's the least I can do.
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This is why FXO players do not get supported to go to IEM and go at their own risk.
Although its nice to have players go to events and play in them. Its a waste of money if they arent going to get their reward.
But I am on both sides of the fence. I know it can be hard sometimes to get the money moving, because of auditing and what not.
Its best to make sure the cash is at least available to be paid out within 30 days IMO which is regular business invoicing time. OR if its longer, advise PRIOR t othe event starting so a player can know what the risk is to them.
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edit: just read the thread and realized that my point was being discussed already
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On November 01 2011 01:48 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 01:46 Liquid`HayprO wrote:
yeah ive had similar experiences. would be nice if they got more professional. u get dqed for being 15 min late. Yes I imagine it must sting to get DQed for being 15 mins late or whatever, yet organisations can be 15 months late with payment they owe to you and nothing gets done about it.
Perhaps we can DQ organisations for not paying up in time? /sigh.
That'll show 'em!
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United States383 Posts
On November 01 2011 01:54 FXOpen wrote:
This is why FXO players do not get supported to go to IEM and go at their own risk.
Although its nice to have players go to events and play in them. Its a waste of money if they arent going to get their reward.
But I am on both sides of the fence. I know it can be hard sometimes to get the money moving, because of auditing and what not.
Its best to make sure the cash is at least available to be paid out within 30 days IMO which is regular business invoicing time. OR if its longer, advise PRIOR t othe event starting so a player can know what the risk is to them.
<3 good for you FXO. This is also why I won't be watching any ESL/IEM streams anymore
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How is it even legal that huge gaming companies can even decline to pay you money. Doesn't that involve some sort of false advertising?
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United States33419 Posts
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If ESL really has like $1m prizemoney per year and they wait like 2 years with paying, that's almost theft. 2 years of interest on $1m is a lot of money that's not theirs.
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Getting money in esports is insanely hard. Most of it is on sponsors because they like to delay as long as possible.
There are some very good events out there that are reputable, other than that you are taking a shot in the dark
My personal opinion is 30 or 45 days should be standard. That's what these business' more likely operate on and that should be reasonable for players to deal with.
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Polarfluke spring ling: 60 dollar
Benelux gaming lan: 750 euro
It is disgusting
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You are all welcome to stop by CSN (cyber-sports.net) and join one of our events. I assure you... you will be paid within a week or 2 at the latest and in most times... the SAME DAY.
regarding the article..
This is an issue.. but having been in eSports for so long.. it needs to be made aware that many of these organizations rely on their sponsors for payment of prizing. The money is filtered from the sponsor down to the organization and then finally to the players. This process can take some time and not all sponsors are good about getting the money in a timely manner. It is very important to understand that to expect payment within a week or even 3 months is expecting too much.
The NA SC2 is fairly new to eSports as a business and you must not get the idea that payment will be automatic. It is more then acceptable to wait up to 3 months for payments. Longer then that and I would agree that it will need to be addressed. Most organizations will have players sign papers that fully explain that payment of prizing could take up to 6 months to pay out.
I understand that there are many in this industry (both players and organization leaders) that do not wish to repeat the mistakes/lies of the past (ie: CPL and GGL)... but we must understand that today... organizations that wish to be a success must find a way to pay because bad press for non-payment is a killer.
Be patient my friends.. but be persistent. This article is perfect for opening up the dialogue needed, but we must understand the scope of the business before we start throwing rocks.
my 3 cents...
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On November 01 2011 01:34 Special Endrey wrote:I heard from quite a lot of players, that there where a lot of problems with paying out prize money too. I even helped some getting in contact with admins/sponsors esp when there are language barriers involved and tournament admins are not beeing able to proper communicate. Still, this is not always the tournament organizers beeing super greedy. Sometimes you as an organizer make a contract with a sponsor and they simply don't pay up in time. So this leaves the organizers in a hole of shit. Becasue they are blamed by the players and the general audience (/r/pitchfork anyone? hehe) for sponsors not holding on to signed contracts. I am not saying this is always the case, I don't even know if this is the majority or the minority. But I am saying that it is not always that simple. So beeing to fast on judging people/tournaments, might not always be the best idea  Still, this thread absolutly deserves attention, it is good that it is not that one sided.
That is entirely the organizers fault IMO. Their contract with sponsors should be clear to include all prize money upfront. If they have the money to host a huge LAN upfront, they should have the prize money upfront as well. I admit z33k is at fault for making this mistake in the past but we have been working on correcting it.
Organizers shouldn't be promising money they don't have. If they are, they are effectively gambling and praying sponsors pay. And if sponsors don't, only the player gets screwed. Which leaves the organizations in a position where they have no real incentive to fix the issue.
Enter SC2-Kespa.
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Yeah thats was ALWAYS the only thing holding me back from playing only SC2 and other esport games. U cannot be sure to get your price money in time....... I played 4 years ago EPS in Command and Conquer Tiberium Wars and the price money came about 1,5 years later :/
then in SC2 i played a Trusted Pro Cup and won about 30€... and i got it about 3-4 month later.
I was suprised about only 3-4 months at ESL but well ... i just got lucky.
This is a need in better professionelity!! Bad to hear not only ESL is late at paying too..
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EPT
