• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 21:44
CET 03:44
KST 11:44
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket13Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge1[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation14Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada4SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA13
StarCraft 2
General
SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t GM / Master map hacker and general hacking and cheating thread
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 3 $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest 2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales!
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened
Brood War
General
Data analysis on 70 million replays soO on: FanTaSy's Potential Return to StarCraft BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions
Tourneys
[BSL21] RO16 Tie Breaker - Group B - Sun 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Tie Breaker - Group A - Sat 21:00 CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Current Meta Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Clair Obscur - Expedition 33 Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation [Game] Osu!
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine About SC2SEA.COM
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Health Impact of Joining…
TrAiDoS
Dyadica Evangelium — Chapt…
Hildegard
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2086 users

England vs Sweden - Group D Matchday 2 - Page 16

Forum Index > UEFA Euro 2012
Post a Reply
Prev 1 14 15 16 17 18 19 Next All
Hassybaby
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom10823 Posts
June 15 2012 21:11 GMT
#301
On June 16 2012 06:08 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 16 2012 06:05 Hassybaby wrote:
On June 16 2012 06:02 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
On June 16 2012 05:57 Hassybaby wrote:
On June 16 2012 05:55 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Shitty football but we did play a bit once Milner fucked off and we got Walcott on. Shame we can't drop Glenn Johnsen for Richards but hey ho.

4 points from France/Sweden is a really good result I'd say and now we have Rooney back we should look a lot less useless next game.

I just hope he picks Rooney/Welbeck not Rooney/Carroll.


Phil Jones is an option as well. He's amazingly versatile so I don't know why he's not played


I'm a United fan so I've seen a lot of Phil Jones.

Jones is a talented player and in the future I think he'll be a starter for England either in midfield or at centre back.

Right now though he's extremely naive positionally and given he's against Yarmalenko (Ukraine's best player) I think I'd prefer Johnson. For all Johnson's endless lapses in concentration and bad positioning he's a least very, very quick so can make up for it.

Jones's isn't that quick and right back is probably his worst position (so much so we play Rafael, Fabio and Smalling ahead of him at full back).

Jones's isn't ready for this stage yet imo.


I'm also a United fan (yay :D)

I agree. I think Jones works better as a holding midfielder. But I think he'll most definitely be an option if they need it.

I dunno, I thought Johnson played really well that game :3


He played Melberg onside for their first.

He was marking Melberg for their second.

He let their left back Ollson come inside him for the Kallstrom chance which he should have scored.

He was completely at fault for both their goals.


Now come on, you can't blame Johnson for what was 100% Ashley Cole's fault. If Cole was even remotely paying attention he could have stopped Mellberg...

Second one I'm with you, but he held the right very well throughout the game, and always went forward. In contrast, Cole was asleep
"These guys are mindfucking me into a sex coma" | "Mayonnaise is a must-have lubricant when performing necrophilia"
Aeroplaneoverthesea
Profile Joined April 2012
United Kingdom1977 Posts
June 15 2012 21:17 GMT
#302
On June 16 2012 06:11 Hassybaby wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 16 2012 06:08 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
On June 16 2012 06:05 Hassybaby wrote:
On June 16 2012 06:02 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
On June 16 2012 05:57 Hassybaby wrote:
On June 16 2012 05:55 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Shitty football but we did play a bit once Milner fucked off and we got Walcott on. Shame we can't drop Glenn Johnsen for Richards but hey ho.

4 points from France/Sweden is a really good result I'd say and now we have Rooney back we should look a lot less useless next game.

I just hope he picks Rooney/Welbeck not Rooney/Carroll.


Phil Jones is an option as well. He's amazingly versatile so I don't know why he's not played


I'm a United fan so I've seen a lot of Phil Jones.

Jones is a talented player and in the future I think he'll be a starter for England either in midfield or at centre back.

Right now though he's extremely naive positionally and given he's against Yarmalenko (Ukraine's best player) I think I'd prefer Johnson. For all Johnson's endless lapses in concentration and bad positioning he's a least very, very quick so can make up for it.

Jones's isn't that quick and right back is probably his worst position (so much so we play Rafael, Fabio and Smalling ahead of him at full back).

Jones's isn't ready for this stage yet imo.


I'm also a United fan (yay :D)

I agree. I think Jones works better as a holding midfielder. But I think he'll most definitely be an option if they need it.

I dunno, I thought Johnson played really well that game :3


He played Melberg onside for their first.

He was marking Melberg for their second.

He let their left back Ollson come inside him for the Kallstrom chance which he should have scored.

He was completely at fault for both their goals.


Now come on, you can't blame Johnson for what was 100% Ashley Cole's fault. If Cole was even remotely paying attention he could have stopped Mellberg...

Second one I'm with you, but he held the right very well throughout the game, and always went forward. In contrast, Cole was asleep


I disagree. You can't really account for the random bounce of the ball with deflections. Cole did what Terry and Lescott and any other decent defender would do. They moved out as a unit to play their forwards offside, it's standard defending 101 to do that in those situations as you can see from the fact our other three defenders all did the same thing.

If Johnson had done it Mellberg would have been offside just like he should have been.

Cole had a solid game imo didn't make any defensive mistakes for me. Young had a mare in front of him which meant our left flank created very little but Cole's on the pitch to defend primarily, especially in our setup.
grobo
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Japan6199 Posts
June 15 2012 21:17 GMT
#303
5minutes of happiness, that's all you get as a Swede in this life.

Fucking hell, where's my whiskey..?
We make signature, then defense it.
samw
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
England443 Posts
June 15 2012 21:18 GMT
#304
On June 16 2012 06:08 Hassybaby wrote:
Rofl...dat conclusion from the English pundits

"nope, we're waaaaaay too bad right now"

haha. They all basically said "We are shit the chances of us winning are 0" Nice upbeat end.
"You will walk in the garden of his turbulence"
samw
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
England443 Posts
June 15 2012 21:25 GMT
#305
If we get through and meet Spain in the round of 8, It will be an absolute massacre, most of the England team will need anus reconstruction surgery.
"You will walk in the garden of his turbulence"
Sonic Death Monkey
Profile Joined July 2011
Sweden991 Posts
June 15 2012 21:27 GMT
#306
On June 16 2012 06:09 Hittegods wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 16 2012 06:01 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
Hard to tell how good/bad Hamren is. The players to his disposal was quite bad compared to the last decade imo. I wouldn't mind giving him another shot.

Pretty easy to tell how bad/naive he is.


No, not really.
TonyL2
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
England1953 Posts
June 15 2012 21:32 GMT
#307
Very exciting game in the end it seemed.

Young was very disappointing this game though, would like to see more Oxlade-Chamberlain. But then again, if it's Young/Welbeck/Rooney, their chemistry could be vital for Ukraine
Hassybaby
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom10823 Posts
June 15 2012 21:33 GMT
#308
On June 16 2012 06:17 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 16 2012 06:11 Hassybaby wrote:
On June 16 2012 06:08 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
On June 16 2012 06:05 Hassybaby wrote:
On June 16 2012 06:02 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
On June 16 2012 05:57 Hassybaby wrote:
On June 16 2012 05:55 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Shitty football but we did play a bit once Milner fucked off and we got Walcott on. Shame we can't drop Glenn Johnsen for Richards but hey ho.

4 points from France/Sweden is a really good result I'd say and now we have Rooney back we should look a lot less useless next game.

I just hope he picks Rooney/Welbeck not Rooney/Carroll.


Phil Jones is an option as well. He's amazingly versatile so I don't know why he's not played


I'm a United fan so I've seen a lot of Phil Jones.

Jones is a talented player and in the future I think he'll be a starter for England either in midfield or at centre back.

Right now though he's extremely naive positionally and given he's against Yarmalenko (Ukraine's best player) I think I'd prefer Johnson. For all Johnson's endless lapses in concentration and bad positioning he's a least very, very quick so can make up for it.

Jones's isn't that quick and right back is probably his worst position (so much so we play Rafael, Fabio and Smalling ahead of him at full back).

Jones's isn't ready for this stage yet imo.


I'm also a United fan (yay :D)

I agree. I think Jones works better as a holding midfielder. But I think he'll most definitely be an option if they need it.

I dunno, I thought Johnson played really well that game :3


He played Melberg onside for their first.

He was marking Melberg for their second.

He let their left back Ollson come inside him for the Kallstrom chance which he should have scored.

He was completely at fault for both their goals.


Now come on, you can't blame Johnson for what was 100% Ashley Cole's fault. If Cole was even remotely paying attention he could have stopped Mellberg...

Second one I'm with you, but he held the right very well throughout the game, and always went forward. In contrast, Cole was asleep


I disagree. You can't really account for the random bounce of the ball with deflections. Cole did what Terry and Lescott and any other decent defender would do. They moved out as a unit to play their forwards offside, it's standard defending 101 to do that in those situations as you can see from the fact our other three defenders all did the same thing.

If Johnson had done it Mellberg would have been offside just like he should have been.

Cole had a solid game imo didn't make any defensive mistakes for me. Young had a mare in front of him which meant our left flank created very little but Cole's on the pitch to defend primarily, especially in our setup.


I guess we'll agree to disagree. The pundits int he BBC said the same. If you watch the replay, you saw the Milner aws tracking his man in the box while Ashley Cole stood there and had absolutely no idea where Mellberg was. That to me is a major defensive fuckup
"These guys are mindfucking me into a sex coma" | "Mayonnaise is a must-have lubricant when performing necrophilia"
Aeroplaneoverthesea
Profile Joined April 2012
United Kingdom1977 Posts
June 15 2012 21:38 GMT
#309
On June 16 2012 06:33 Hassybaby wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 16 2012 06:17 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
On June 16 2012 06:11 Hassybaby wrote:
On June 16 2012 06:08 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
On June 16 2012 06:05 Hassybaby wrote:
On June 16 2012 06:02 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
On June 16 2012 05:57 Hassybaby wrote:
On June 16 2012 05:55 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Shitty football but we did play a bit once Milner fucked off and we got Walcott on. Shame we can't drop Glenn Johnsen for Richards but hey ho.

4 points from France/Sweden is a really good result I'd say and now we have Rooney back we should look a lot less useless next game.

I just hope he picks Rooney/Welbeck not Rooney/Carroll.


Phil Jones is an option as well. He's amazingly versatile so I don't know why he's not played


I'm a United fan so I've seen a lot of Phil Jones.

Jones is a talented player and in the future I think he'll be a starter for England either in midfield or at centre back.

Right now though he's extremely naive positionally and given he's against Yarmalenko (Ukraine's best player) I think I'd prefer Johnson. For all Johnson's endless lapses in concentration and bad positioning he's a least very, very quick so can make up for it.

Jones's isn't that quick and right back is probably his worst position (so much so we play Rafael, Fabio and Smalling ahead of him at full back).

Jones's isn't ready for this stage yet imo.


I'm also a United fan (yay :D)

I agree. I think Jones works better as a holding midfielder. But I think he'll most definitely be an option if they need it.

I dunno, I thought Johnson played really well that game :3


He played Melberg onside for their first.

He was marking Melberg for their second.

He let their left back Ollson come inside him for the Kallstrom chance which he should have scored.

He was completely at fault for both their goals.


Now come on, you can't blame Johnson for what was 100% Ashley Cole's fault. If Cole was even remotely paying attention he could have stopped Mellberg...

Second one I'm with you, but he held the right very well throughout the game, and always went forward. In contrast, Cole was asleep


I disagree. You can't really account for the random bounce of the ball with deflections. Cole did what Terry and Lescott and any other decent defender would do. They moved out as a unit to play their forwards offside, it's standard defending 101 to do that in those situations as you can see from the fact our other three defenders all did the same thing.

If Johnson had done it Mellberg would have been offside just like he should have been.

Cole had a solid game imo didn't make any defensive mistakes for me. Young had a mare in front of him which meant our left flank created very little but Cole's on the pitch to defend primarily, especially in our setup.


I guess we'll agree to disagree. The pundits int he BBC said the same. If you watch the replay, you saw the Milner aws tracking his man in the box while Ashley Cole stood there and had absolutely no idea where Mellberg was. That to me is a major defensive fuckup


I'm in Italy at the moment and Italian TV didn't consider the game interesting enough to show any replays at all so I can't rewatch it unfortunately.
iMonAhorsE
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany275 Posts
June 15 2012 21:40 GMT
#310
and i thought chelsea used up all luck for english football for the next 10 years...
Caphe
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Vietnam10817 Posts
June 15 2012 21:46 GMT
#311
On June 16 2012 06:40 iMonAhorsE wrote:
and i thought chelsea used up all luck for english football for the next 10 years...

Well, Hodson is a manager that known for his willingness to take risk and luck or not, this game has gone well for him. He played with 2 forward which is a rare sight in recent times(since Mourinho surfaces!!!) and one of them is a rockie from ManU the other has a sloppy season at Liverpool but they re-paid him well.
Terran
GeorgeH
Profile Joined January 2012
United Kingdom190 Posts
June 15 2012 22:08 GMT
#312
If Mellberg had scored a hatrick I swear... I would've...
Sonic Death Monkey
Profile Joined July 2011
Sweden991 Posts
June 15 2012 22:13 GMT
#313
On June 16 2012 07:08 GeorgeH wrote:
If Mellberg had scored a hatrick I swear... I would've...


Actually Johnson got credit for the first goal :p Quite weird imo, as I thought the rule of thumb for own goals was that the interference had to cause a ball that otherwise wouldn't go in to go in. Seems like that was not the case. But I was drunk so what the hell do I know.
stichtom
Profile Joined March 2011
Italy695 Posts
June 15 2012 22:14 GMT
#314
The 2-2 was weird. What was the goalkeeper thinking?
Favourite player: IM.MVP ~ Favorite league: IPL
ELA
Profile Joined April 2010
Denmark4608 Posts
June 15 2012 22:17 GMT
#315
On June 16 2012 06:17 grobo wrote:
5minutes of happiness, that's all you get as a Swede in this life.

Fucking hell, where's my whiskey..?


after sundays match against germany, i'll come join you
The first link of chain forged, the first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.
Copymizer
Profile Joined November 2010
Denmark2095 Posts
June 15 2012 22:34 GMT
#316
On June 16 2012 07:17 ELA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 16 2012 06:17 grobo wrote:
5minutes of happiness, that's all you get as a Swede in this life.

Fucking hell, where's my whiskey..?


after sundays match against germany, i'll come join you

hahahah that made me laugh but i really fear this too xD! Realistically if we play up to the best of our best i expect a 1-1 Germany is just too good
~~Yo man ! MBCGame HERO Fighting !! Holy check !
DragoonTT
Profile Joined April 2012
3398 Posts
June 15 2012 22:38 GMT
#317
On June 16 2012 07:34 Copymizer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 16 2012 07:17 ELA wrote:
On June 16 2012 06:17 grobo wrote:
5minutes of happiness, that's all you get as a Swede in this life.

Fucking hell, where's my whiskey..?


after sundays match against germany, i'll come join you

hahahah that made me laugh but i really fear this too xD! Realistically if we play up to the best of our best i expect a 1-1 Germany is just too good

German fans and media are terribly overconfident, already celebrating reaching the quarterfinals and calling for the bench to play against Denmark. I hope Löw won't cave in, or we'll lose to Denmark and, subsequently, get eliminated after all. Sure our starting eleven look very strong, and our bench is full of quality - but they've never played a match together (other than against Switzerland, and everyone knows how THAT ended...)
Lyter
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United Kingdom2145 Posts
June 15 2012 22:40 GMT
#318
On June 16 2012 07:13 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 16 2012 07:08 GeorgeH wrote:
If Mellberg had scored a hatrick I swear... I would've...


Actually Johnson got credit for the first goal :p Quite weird imo, as I thought the rule of thumb for own goals was that the interference had to cause a ball that otherwise wouldn't go in to go in. Seems like that was not the case. But I was drunk so what the hell do I know.


It didn't look like it was going in without him I don't think, Hart saved, it bounced off johnson, then he went after it and it went off the post and in I think? :s
Sonic Death Monkey
Profile Joined July 2011
Sweden991 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-15 23:05:02
June 15 2012 23:03 GMT
#319
On June 16 2012 07:40 Lyter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 16 2012 07:13 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
On June 16 2012 07:08 GeorgeH wrote:
If Mellberg had scored a hatrick I swear... I would've...


Actually Johnson got credit for the first goal :p Quite weird imo, as I thought the rule of thumb for own goals was that the interference had to cause a ball that otherwise wouldn't go in to go in. Seems like that was not the case. But I was drunk so what the hell do I know.


It didn't look like it was going in without him I don't think, Hart saved, it bounced off johnson, then he went after it and it went off the post and in I think? :s


Like I said I was drunk, more likely the officials got it right than me. I can barely remember what happened Unfortunate situation for Johnson, not much he could've done. I think :p
sixfour
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
England11061 Posts
June 15 2012 23:17 GMT
#320
so i guess now that walcott managed to benefit from bad goalkeeping for the one that he bagged, and welbz's incredible improvised finishing for the bad cross that he laid in, the press will look at the two scorepoints and demand he starts against ukraine despite the fact the only reason he should ever start a match is that he isn't downing
p: stats, horang2, free, jangbi z: soulkey, zero, shine, hydra t: leta, hiya, sea
Prev 1 14 15 16 17 18 19 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 4h 46m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 169
ProTech31
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 4012
NaDa 71
sorry 44
Noble 42
ivOry 19
Dota 2
PGG 262
NeuroSwarm132
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor155
Other Games
summit1g12027
ViBE99
RotterdaM92
Trikslyr57
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick801
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 102
• musti20045 27
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki10
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush829
• Stunt124
Other Games
• Scarra1222
• imaqtpie769
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
4h 46m
Classic vs SHIN
Maru vs TBD
herO vs TBD
Wardi Open
11h 16m
IPSL
17h 16m
StRyKeR vs OldBoy
Sziky vs Tarson
BSL 21
17h 16m
StRyKeR vs Artosis
OyAji vs KameZerg
OSC
20h 16m
OSC
1d 6h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 14h
OSC
1d 20h
Wardi Open
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
Wardi Open
3 days
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
LAN Event
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-21
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
SLON Tour Season 2
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.