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Overall I think the TL staff did an awesome job with the TSL, even moreso in lots of areas than the TSL 1... I tuned in and watched every single broadcast, where last time I barely tuned in to half the matches, so I think there's definitely something to say there (not saying that I am anyone special but just speaking to the fact that TL was able to draw a viewer like me and many thousands of others like me who became really interested in following the results and watching the broadcasts).
After the Ro16 many of the games were thrilling and exciting to watch. There were technical difficulties each week but honestly that's not really much of a problem and in fact I think it speaks to the fact that the TSL was SO awesome that it was able to keep drawing in more and more people, I can imagine how hard it is to set up a broadcast with 10-20k people watching.
One point of criticism I have though is that a lot of the time the staff didn't handle criticism very well. Especially since the TL admins are the biggest attack dogs in the community, criticizing every tournament that has faults and deficiencies. I think that in general you should just ignore the stupid people who bitch and complain about what you do because it makes you look unprofessional lashing out at people who complain.
I think today's example of the accidental spoiler of results says a lot. Instead of creating a bogus cover story (we generate random brackets... seriously if you think about it, what does that even mean?) - just say "ya we messed up sorry guys" , and so what if a ton of people bitch and moan... coming from someone who's hosted more than 10 LAN events and 20 online tournaments over the years (nothing as big as TSL obv), I've learned that people will ALWAYS complain and it's really not worth it to attack the people who attack you. Nobody wins.
Just enjoy the fact that tens of thousands of people like me really appreciate the work that the staff did to make the TSL great. So what if there are 10-100, or whatever people who want to complain about everything, the haters are probably less than 1% of the total people who come to the site and followed the tournament.
So ya, great work guys... but I just think in general the staff gets too defensive over criticism sometimes!
<3 !
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Austin10833 Posts
I'm guessing part of your complaint stems from the fact that you don't understand their cover story. They were saying that they pre-generated result brackets so that they would have the correct one ready for the end of the broadcast no matter the outcome, and that one of those brackets was accidentally placed in the slideshow.
While it's not the most rock-solid story, it's certainly plausible, and was done so that maybe a few viewers would believe that they weren't actually spoiled.
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Thank you teamliquid staff, it was very professional and I feel privileged to have access to such type of entertainment for free!
Spectacular job!
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
What BroOd said. On the fly damage control. But thanks for the feedback (see how well i reacted to your criticism LOL)
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United States24784 Posts
On March 01 2010 07:10 BroOd wrote:
I'm guessing part of your complaint stems from the fact that you don't understand their cover story. They were saying that they pre-generated result brackets so that they would have the correct one ready for the end of the broadcast no matter the outcome, and that one of those brackets was accidentally placed in the slideshow.
While it's not the most rock-solid story, it's certainly plausible, and was done so that maybe a few viewers would believe that they weren't actually spoiled.
Yeah definitely. When intrigue said it in irc chat I thought it was semi-plausible so I started telling everyone it. Honestly... what's to gain from not believing it? I enjoyed the finals much more because I believed that we didn't know the results yet :p
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haha kennigit. I actually got spolied by the posts in the thread, not by the stream and after kennigts posts I didnt think too much and believed what he wrote, so in the end only the final game was kinda spoiled to me. so its not such big deal, that several people are trying to make out of it.
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I managed to stay away from the spoiler. Someone on IRC mentioned it and I was like "oooh no TL until finals is done for me".
I just love the TSL, I missed one broadcast due to falling asleep but I leeched the torrent first thing the morning after and I enjoyed every single second of it. The tournament had everything. You had the young rising star, Koll. You had the oldschool player, Mondi. Had players you've never really heard about before. You had the IdrA v. NonY back and forth. And you had dramatic games (SEn's 0-2 to 3-2 and nonys now classic reverse-kill.
I wish I could write something better, but I'm at a loss for words. I can't describe how awesome this was.
Thank you for letting SC:BW go down with a bang instead of a empty hole. I just know people will talk about TSL2 long after SC2 has been released.
THANK YOU TL STAFF!
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I cant express the awesomness of TSL. Thank You for the great time. Good Job. Keep it that Way!!!!!!!!!
And congratz for Nony, and Mondi.
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To be honest (and I don't know why exactly) I enjoyed Razor TSL 1 more. Maybe "the first child is always the sweeter" but it just seemed that way. Maybe Brood War had another twist in that time, maybe the animation triggered my feelings better that time or something else was in air.
This TSL was satisfying. I hope there will be another one for StarCraft 2 as we can't expect another TSL for StarCraft 1 (or maybe we can *wink*, *wink*). Only thing I was annoyed by were delays and technical difficulties.
Overall great job.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
Thank You TL. An example to the entire esports community.
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Kick-ass tournament, kick-ass organizers, kick-ass commentators, kick-ass players, kick-ass games! Overall kick-ass experience, thank you!
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Good job by everyone! Loved it, can't wait for next years.
I'm feeling mondi's pain atm :C
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9935 Posts
On March 01 2010 07:22 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Good job by everyone! Loved it, can't wait for next years.
I'm feeling mondi's pain atm :C
back pain from having to carry his fat check around?
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Germany / USA16648 Posts
In reply to the op, I wrote the following in the live report thread + Show Spoiler +
Ok. This is what happened:
Everything was set up perfectly. I had run through all the videos with R1CH watching, we had soundchecked early, were ready in perfect time.
Cheerful video is running, music is playing and I switch to the Probe intro to start the cast. Probe intro ends, I switch to the NonY vs Mondi screen and sound on stream for absolutely no reason at all is gone. I start getting mad, because the stream gods apparently hate us (or we really should have sacrificed GTR over a fire!).
Restarting Wirecast (and thus restarting the stream) instantly fixes the sound problem. We decide not to use the Probe video again, because we think it's what made the sound crash (despite it working perfectly in earlier casts and during the test before today's cast as well). I thus remove the Probe video from the Wirecast video list. Since it was one of the first ones in my list everything else moves up one slot.
The stream is restarted with the Nony vs Mondi screen on. I want to switch to the Cheerful video again, but with everything having moved up one slot the bracket video is now in the slot the cheerful video was in before. Visual memory is a bitch, so I run it, instantly recognizing my mistake.
I yell at R1CH to take the stream down instantly, but alas it's too late, the data has already been processed by the streaming server.
Most people were still reconnecting at that time though, so only a minority caught a glimpse of it. The reason posts were deleted and Kennigit posted earlier in this thread was not to hide anything, but to avoid spoilers for the majority who had not yet reconnected. Users mentioning it in this thread over and over again while the cast was still going only made it worse (risk of spoiling to the mahority that didnt see it).
I don't think anyone outside the people involved realize the fragility of our streaming environment, obs, casters & tech crew spread all over the world. Nor does anyone understand the pressure when stuff suddenly goes wrong for no good reason (I still don't understand why Wirecast decided to crash the sound after the Probe vid....) at all with thousands of people watching.
If anyone is mad they got spoiled put yourself in my shoes, thanks.
Kennigit's "on the fly damage control" pretty much sums it up.
That aside: I loved TSL. Loved most of the matches, loved the upsets, loved the casters.
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Have said this many time already but really gj to everyone who worked on the TSL and to all the participants!
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Braavos36402 Posts
I think today's example of the accidental spoiler of results says a lot. Instead of creating a bogus cover story (we generate random brackets... seriously if you think about it, what does that even mean?) - just say "ya we messed up sorry guys" , and so what if a ton of people bitch and moan... coming from someone who's hosted more than 10 LAN events and 20 online tournaments over the years (nothing as big as TSL obv), I've learned that people will ALWAYS complain and it's really not worth it to attack the people who attack you. Nobody wins.
Xeris, if we say this its essentially confirming 4-2 and we are basically asking every immature kid to post 4-2 spoiled!!! in the LR thread or the IRC. That would undoubtedly ruin/spoil it for a huge portion of the viewership. The way we handled it, it was only spoiled for quite a small subsection of viewers, which would've really been much smaller had everyone just used their heads and not kept repeatedly saying the score in the threads.
We can't "just ignoring criticism." We know that our product not perfect (yet) and we're trying to improve on it, and the only way to do that is to take suggestions and criticisms seriously. Still, I feel that a lot of the things that were fixed between Razer TSL and this one (fewer stream crashes, better caster coordination, more broadcast games, more interviews/coverage, live post-interviews, etc) largely got overshadowed by a few negatives (abusers, a few obs errors, caster screen/audio issues, and unexpected delays). Some of these negatives we had control over, but many of them were just freak situations.
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Braavos36402 Posts
Secondly, I feel that errors are magnified, since things going right is the "norm." For instance, a situation where users helped us improve was the thread about obs/caster coordination (criticizing us). It was something we definitely improved upon as the tournament went along. Our obs, casters, and others really focused on this problem. We may have argued with one or two bad apples who were being idiots in the thread, but we did accept the point -- the obs/caster sync had to get better. And it did, as evidenced by the lack of comment/complaint about it ever since then. Once it got better, nobody mentioned it again (as expected).
Another example would be the mass of people claiming "imba!! idra and ret shouldn't play, they are progamers, its completely not fair and none of the other players have a chance." Now, those people look pretty stupid, but obviously they aren't going to make a thread "Sorry for whining so much, I was wrong to say other players had no chance against these two." Similarly, nobody is going to make a thread "wow the caster audio didn't drop at all during semis and finals!" because these sorts of things only get highlighted when things go wrong.
All that said, we enjoyed it tremendously. It was a huge learning experience for us as well, and I'm sure the next TSL (whether its for SC2 or not) will have another great leap forward in every aspect. I'm also very happy PS sponsored us -- they were the perfect sponsor. They were very professional, worked with us on many things, and let us sort through any errors we had. Thanks to them, and of course to everyone that watched.
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On March 01 2010 07:25 intrigue wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2010 07:22 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Good job by everyone! Loved it, can't wait for next years.
I'm feeling mondi's pain atm :C
back pain from having to carry his fat check around?
That and we both lost first place T_T!
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I think it was a great final to one of the best SC tournaments I have ever seen. My thanks go to the teamliquid staff members for their hard work and to PokerStrategy.com for sponsoring.
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EPT
