EPTClouD vs G5 Results and Interview - Page 9
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Chill
Calgary26003 Posts
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PhilGood2DaY
Germany7424 Posts
On January 08 2010 07:37 Liquid`NonY wrote: if A > B > C > A, then you shouldn't pick one thing out of that circular arrangement and call it the stupid one. if a build can't cover all possible responses to it, then it's risky. if it can, but it is executed poorly, then it deserves to lose. there was nothing stupid about g5's style of play. he was hitting the timing for containing his opponent which is a legit good play for desti. cloud should have done shuttle harrass no offense but did u even watch the replay ? how has shuttle harass anything to do with the game and how it happened on desti !? edit: i agree timing is not the real issue in those games just look at the decisions and how bad his units were approaching the attack at the end of the game.. thats what lost it for cloud | ||
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
On January 08 2010 06:55 HazMat wrote: Did anyone see G5's Sexy 1-goon-snipe-Shuttle-just-at-the-right-time in game 2? I can sort of understand ClouD writing that bm post earlier since he did play bad and got eliminated from a 23k tourney.   G5 <3If you mean what I'm thinkin about then I saw it more as a Cloud loading up the shuttle at a perfectly wrong time | ||
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TT1
Canada10045 Posts
simply put g5 got lucky in the first game(luck is a part of bw, his b.o woulda failed if cloud upped storm faster or defended the bridges.. there was no timing involved in this game at all) and outplayed cloud in the 2nd game(this and cloud's poor decision making) | ||
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oberon
United States1320 Posts
--oberon | ||
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Nal_rAwr
United States2611 Posts
ugh why did i vote for him even after seeing his ass get raped on tl arena | ||
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SoL[9]
Portugal1370 Posts
Ty guys I expecting more about Cloud :/ | ||
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Art.FeeL
1163 Posts
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NonY
8751 Posts
On January 08 2010 08:45 MaGic~PhiL wrote: no offense but did u even watch the replay ? how has shuttle harass anything to do with the game and how it happened on desti !? the two basic choices for players in this map and matchup are shuttle harrass (while keeping army at your natural) and contain (keeping most of your army outside enemy natural, while the rest defends against shuttle harrass). these choices are good because of the bridges at the naturals. cloud's decision to do neither is a difficult way to play if the opponent is going to fight for the middle. cloud's plan is a good counter against people who do shuttle harrass (block the harrass --> get a free expansion), but a bad counter against people who fight for the middle (opponent cuts probes for timing attack, shuttle never comes, all units gogogo take middle ez). On January 08 2010 08:45 MaGic~PhiL wrote: just look at the decisions and how bad his units were approaching the attack at the end of the game.. thats what lost it for cloud i'm only looking at the strategy and gameplan choices since the rotten idea that g5's strategy was stupid/simple was introduced. im sure if bisu played cloud's build, bisu would have won. but i'd watch that replay and think "g5's strat was a good counter. let's just clean up g5's little imperfections so he's on a level with bisu, and g5 would win that game." | ||
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kroko
Finland2136 Posts
On January 08 2010 09:33 Art.FeeL wrote: its ok i found how to dl xD ...gona wathc this asap http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=109448 | ||
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Djin)ftw(
Germany3357 Posts
but game 2 was so bad, 1a2a3a without any positioning, running in g5's well spread army backho style. g5 was clearly better | ||
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HowitZer
United States1610 Posts
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I_Love_Bacon
United States5765 Posts
On January 08 2010 01:34 MaGic~PhiL wrote: + he kept manner and gged twice without writing shit I know a few gamers who arent capable of doing this.. What's that? MaGic~PhiL making a random attack at idra's manners for the umpteenth time? Didn't see that coming... | ||
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LaLuSh
Sweden2358 Posts
On January 08 2010 09:34 Liquid`NonY wrote: the two basic choices for players in this map and matchup are shuttle harrass (while keeping army at your natural) and contain (keeping most of your army outside enemy natural, while the rest defends against shuttle harrass). these choices are good because of the bridges at the naturals. cloud's decision to do neither is a difficult way to play if the opponent is going to fight for the middle. cloud's plan is a good counter against people who do shuttle harrass (block the harrass --> get a free expansion), but a bad counter against people who fight for the middle (opponent cuts probes for timing attack, shuttle never comes, all units gogogo take middle ez). i'm only looking at the strategy and gameplan choices since the rotten idea that g5's strategy was stupid/simple was introduced. im sure if bisu played cloud's build, bisu would have won. but i'd watch that replay and think "g5's strat was a good counter. let's just clean up g5's little imperfections so he's on a level with bisu, and g5 would win that game." Perhaps a bad choice of words to call it stupid/simple. But I still regard it a weak build on desti because of the things you mentioned in your last post. Additionally, the manouverability shuttles give you on desti makes any sort of contain hard to pull off without the game turning chaotic on you, having to fraction your army into too many pieces and eventually getting rolled. Sacrificing tech early for a huge mass of units really limits your choices and that's why you wouldn't see bisu doing G5's build (meaning starting to cut probes THAT early and waiting THAT late to attack). I don't really disagree with you though. Except for calling G5's (or "bisu's") strat a counter. It's a timing bust depending on the opponent being overly aggressive or the opponent being sloppy. It's a build 100% designed to wipe out the opponents army on a map where it, if your opponent caught on to your strat, should be hard to pull off. By the time G5 decided to attack, I wouldn really call that a "timing for contain". Cloud had virtually caught up in unit count. He was safe to stroll around on his side -- had he only controlled the bridges or kept his army together. By that point any battle is pretty much game deciding. You don't really go around thinking about contains 13 minutes into the game (or whatever the timing was). *: Anyway. I was, in my post, mostly trying to explain that feeling of dissapointment that I could empathise with in Cloud. Cloud's build or "strategy" in itself wasn't at fault or weak against what G5 did. Rather it was the fact that he failed to read G5's build correctly. That he forgot about the basics of Desti PvP. Even a player doing a standard build would have crushed Clouds army in that position. That's why I'm arguing the people in here claiming there was some kind of a brilliant timing attack involved. It was a mistake... no more no less. G5 deserved it sure. Good timing attacks do exist on desti, sure (and bisu would prolly win if he pulled on of them). None of this means G5 played good or that his build was the reason behind the win. G5 won, that's all that matters in the end. But that wasn't a timing attack countering a standard strategy. It was merely an attack slamming an army out of position. | ||
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FragKrag
United States11567 Posts
GL G5! | ||
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PhOeniX[MinD]
361 Posts
On January 07 2010 15:28 tree.hugger wrote: GGs. I'm going to love this Saturday. I feel like the TSL is going to raise the level of the foreigner game quite a bit..! This is awesome. agree | ||
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NonY
8751 Posts
all the strategy stuff aside, i agree with the empathy. my pvp is very similar to cloud's and i lose in similar ways sometimes. some gameplans have to be played perfectly in order to succeed and sometimes you dont see the holes until you've lost a game. | ||
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FlameSworD
United States414 Posts
couldnt watch after cloud sucks to bad at attacking | ||
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SolaR-
United States2685 Posts
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Knickknack
United States1187 Posts
LaLuSh puts a lot of thoughts to Cloud that are reasonable, but we don't know and cloud is not coming in here confirming it, and its hard to recall exactly what you were thinking during the game exactly. Its understandable to be annoyed when you feel you are playing a bit poor due to nerves, and you lose in a chancy situation where you don't quite scout the other guy attacking. Oh well, but thats all it is, and that is starcraft. BTW we do have a bisu rep on this map vs best. Bisu goes relatively fast dt drop after expo and contains best at nat ~9min. Best expos and breaks out though back side. And its a long game. Note how both go for 2archons before storm though. | ||
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