EPTTSL Ladder Standings - Page 67
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Shiva_Chandra
Denmark341 Posts
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On December 05 2009 06:48 Ganfei wrote: I fail to see how you losing to lings repeatedly is a coin flip. I guess that when Effort smashed you with a 5 pool @ Blizzcon it was a coin flip too. Honestly, stop being an asshole, play safer, since you're sooOoOoo much fucking better than these foreigners, they just do "stupid shit" that you still manage to lose to over and over. Seriously, make 6 fucking bunkers and you should still win since you're so much better. Don't give me some bullshit about me trolling you because it's me and you, it has nothing to do with that. The only shit you post on TL are arrogant strat forum posts where you give accurate information but in a dickish way and posts where you call foreigners stupid or make some idiotic snide comment about them doing stupid shit or winning by luck or what the fuck ever new bullshit excuse you have made up to rationalize you losing. effort 5 pooled me because he knows i like to 13 rax 15 cc on medusa, and it was indeed a coinflip. if i had been top left i wouldve been forced to wall at the inner choke, which is a 1 depot wall, which is literally a free win vs 5 pool. if you think theres anything to octzerg besides luck and zerglings you're an idiot | ||
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Future_sc
United States783 Posts
On December 05 2009 09:50 Shiva_Chandra wrote: Think you're wrong future, most B+/A- players can beat bad D ranks with about a 99% edge (or more), which is enough to actually gain points until...A/A+? You cant really gain points at A- or B+ by doing this. If someone wants to hack away at D for about 500 games and not lose any be my guest. | ||
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integral
United States3156 Posts
On December 05 2009 09:08 Shiva_Chandra wrote: Really need a rule that says you can't play people 2 ranks below your current rank. Would be very sad if the end of this ladder was pestered with several people playing D ranks to get top 48. Agreed with the no 2x downranking rule. | ||
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LuckyFool
United States9015 Posts
just cuz he has virtually no accomplishments doesn't mean he hasn't gotten pretty f'n good in the past year. I used to be able to beat him but recently I can't touch him. My skill level has remained the same for the past year or so like (B-) so take it for what its worth but yeah he's legit and definitely not dino, he's better than dino anyway. ^_^ | ||
Mig
United States4714 Posts
Playing A- vs D+ you gain like 13 pts with a win and you lose somewhere around 280 for a loss you would need 95%+ winrate just to break even which iam sure some guys are capable of but it would mean that long term net you would only be making a couple points per game and you would have to play literally hundreds and hundreds of games to get anywhere. | ||
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Future_sc
United States783 Posts
It would be taking away a potential strategy in playing the ladder. I do not see a problem if someone does this legitimately (plays people that are 2 ranks or more away). The object is to get the most points in the ladder not to do it in a proper way and a risk is involved if you try to do this vs a B if you are A- or whatever (its -200 if i'm not mistaken and only +65 for a win). If someone is going to bash D's that is just silly and he would have to bash like 100 d's to move up a rank without losing a game. | ||
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Shiva_Chandra
Denmark341 Posts
I know that some people will say or think that it doesn't matter, if people play dodgy to get into top 48 or whatever, they'll just get knocked out - I understand that, but my honest opinion is that tournaments, such as TSL, are there for the community to enjoy. Watching the best of the best foreigners going at it, and I believe that people making top 48 by doing dodgy shit lowers the overall quality of games in the playoffs. | ||
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
On December 05 2009 09:51 IdrA wrote: effort 5 pooled me because he knows i like to 13 rax 15 cc on medusa, and it was indeed a coinflip. if i had been top left i wouldve been forced to wall at the inner choke, which is a 1 depot wall, which is literally a free win vs 5 pool. if you think theres anything to octzerg besides luck and zerglings you're an idiot Why there are not more guys like octzerg if it is so easy to get to A with lings ? | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On December 05 2009 10:05 Boblion wrote: Why there are not more guys like octzerg if it is so easy to get to A with lings ? dunno, why dont more bad protosses play like horang? | ||
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Sadistx
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
On December 05 2009 09:51 IdrA wrote: effort 5 pooled me because he knows i like to 13 rax 15 cc on medusa, and it was indeed a coinflip. if i had been top left i wouldve been forced to wall at the inner choke, which is a 1 depot wall, which is literally a free win vs 5 pool. if you think theres anything to octzerg besides luck and zerglings you're an idiot Doesn't that mean there's a race imbalance if you can just luck/ling your way to A rank ? He's also mostly playing ZvZ's lately, and actually has a higher winrate there. Is it because he selects opponents well or is he just good in zvz ? That would imply there's less luck since it's a mirror. | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On December 05 2009 10:18 Sadistx wrote: Doesn't that mean there's a race imbalance if you can just luck/ling your way to A rank ? He's also mostly playing ZvZ's lately, and actually has a higher winrate there. Is it because he selects opponents well or is he just good in zvz ? That would imply there's less luck since it's a mirror. it doesnt mean its imbalanced, it just means gay zergs are well suited to ladder play you can ling allin zvz too, and the vast majority of his games have been against bad foreign zergs so that inflates it | ||
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bEsT[Alive]
606 Posts
On December 05 2009 01:45 IdrA wrote: effort 5 pooled me because he knows i like to 13 rax 15 cc on medusa, and it was indeed a coinflip. if i had been top left i wouldve been forced to wall at the inner choke, which is a 1 depot wall, which is literally a free win vs 5 pool. if you think theres anything to octzerg besides luck and zerglings you're an idiot [/QUOTE] Greg, you should have kept that on the DL. Effort was obviously trying to punish you. This is very similar to Flash not taking certain players seriously and always 14 ccing. 1. He knew your build 2. 3 player map - easy to scout you out 3. Gamble paid off because you tried to whore minerals early like Flash. Very few foreigners are talented at ZvZ. In many cases, these players come from a 2v2 background. I cannot wait to go over OctZergs replays EDIT: lol, spot on Greg. Just as I finished my post. Goes back to what I said against foreign ZvZ. Many of them are just bad. OctZerg on the other hand, at least has some clue on what to do in the match up compared to other foreigners. | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7453 Posts
Turns out that is a fucking load of shit. Without strong micro, good improv and basic mechanics you cannot consistently appear as much as octozerg or f91 or any of the other 'cheesy' non-korean zergs. | ||
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bEsT[Alive]
606 Posts
What Effort did was smart play. Greg remember that time you allined in a Bo5 finals? It was the fifth match. That's called smart play because no one was expecting you to do that at all. -_- | ||
NonY
8748 Posts
On December 05 2009 11:04 AttackZerg wrote: Its funny for a while I used to read idras opinion on non-korean zergs and think "Oh shit if I go 2 hat ling allin 3 hat ling all-in 3 hat hydra all in 2 hat lurker allin 2 hat muta all in I could get A-". Turns out that is a fucking load of shit. Without strong micro, good improv and basic mechanics you cannot consistently appear as much as octozerg or f91 or any of the other 'cheesy' non-korean zergs. really it's just knowing the builds, with all their little nuances, and having strong micro in very specific, predictable situations. a fraction of the skills required to be a good complete player | ||
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
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Liquid`Nazgul
22427 Posts
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AttackZerg
United States7453 Posts
On December 05 2009 11:26 Liquid`NonY wrote: really it's just knowing the builds, with all their little nuances, and having strong micro in very specific, predictable situations. a fraction of the skills required to be a good complete player yes but without the understanding and the execution you get the average b-/b player. Being able to have strong enough micro to win zvz at b+/A- regardless means something but these guys have been doing it for years. Are they ret good of course not ... but I'm tired of idra passing that bullshit around "if cheesy zergs do this or that they can rape ladders" when I've done every cheese possible at b/b+/a- (I was lent accounts) and found out that without a certain skill level you aren't taking a game off of a A- terran regardless of how gimmiky your play is. | ||
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IPS.ZeRo
Germany1142 Posts
On December 05 2009 11:30 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: I'd actually say to be a good complete player you have to know how to do both and respect both ways of winning. You will do much better playing straight up if your opponent doesn't know what's coming. Jaedong and Effort both know this. So did Nal_rA and Boxer. It definitely adds to a player to have the capabilities to adjust these things based on map and opponent. Yes of course, mindgames are just very important. Flash proxy raxing on Katrina vs Stork in OSL finals after stork thought about ways to beat the flash build was perfect. You have to be aware of your image and if it is too predictable then mix it up. | ||
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