EPTOn December 02 2009 07:23 Straylight wrote:
Stop making Canada look BM. Gosh.
TSL Ladder Standings - Page 49
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Cedstick
Canada3336 Posts
Stop making Canada look BM. Gosh. | ||
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StorrZerg
United States13918 Posts
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Scaramanga
Australia8090 Posts
Oh man looking through some peoples game lists looking at idra's is so amazing, its all koreans  Idra will take this easily i think | ||
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Glaucus
479 Posts
It's the weakness of ladder qualification and iccup rank. | ||
OneOther
United States10774 Posts
yes it's within the ladder rules but i just think it's so...dumb. this is one thing i do not like about ladder qualification systems. if one person starts doing it, i don't see why everybody else wouldn't. the laddeing process would become stupid. | ||
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arb
Noobville17920 Posts
On December 02 2009 00:44 SirGlinG wrote: I'd rather do this at the end of the ladder, but it's still interesting! Top 3 fighters for the first spot, their weakest mu's. Ret ZvZ |24-15 | 61.5% Idra TvT |36-21 | 63.2% F91 ZvZ |21-7 | 75% + Show Spoiler + F91 has too few played games on A-, Ret has played foreigners, Idra has played more games than the rest of them. Well you do know that most of the foreigners(non chinese white-ra/ret/idra/ not included) are capable of low A- /B+ at best, but playing each other and cheesing constantly has given so many people A- with good stats/points its not funny. or playing your team mates in some cases | ||
grobo
Japan6199 Posts
On December 02 2009 08:21 OneOther wrote: all right gentlemen, time to start playing your clanmates who you know can beat 9 out of 10 times. find lower ranks and bash them for 1300 points. repeat and you will climb 3 ranks. yes it's within the ladder rules but i just think it's so...dumb. this is one thing i do not like about ladder qualification systems. if one person starts doing it, i don't see why everybody else wouldn't. the laddeing process would become stupid. If they wanted to, they would. The thing is he's not hurting anyone except himself, in the end when he has to face A/A- players in the qualification rounds we all know how that's gonna end, so i don't see what the problem is. Nobody was complaining when mondragon played only foreigners last TSL, people do what they believe they have to do in order to qualify and there is nothing wrong with that. | ||
KwarK
United States42265 Posts
On December 02 2009 08:21 OneOther wrote: all right gentlemen, time to start playing your clanmates who you know can beat 9 out of 10 times. find lower ranks and bash them for 1300 points. repeat and you will climb 3 ranks. yes it's within the ladder rules but i just think it's so...dumb. this is one thing i do not like about ladder qualification systems. if one person starts doing it, i don't see why everybody else wouldn't. the laddeing process would become stupid. 30 minutes before I played AoN.Deanotic at B+ vs B Lzgamer played him, at B+ vs B just as I did. Deanotic 2-0ed Lzgamer. It's not that I'm doing something others aren't or that I'm starting something. It's that my PvZ was strong enough to get the 2:1 win ratio required to make points doing it. If you think I had an easy road feel free to try and walk it. Tell me how that goes. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28602 Posts
On December 02 2009 08:31 grobo wrote: If they wanted to, they would. The thing is he's not hurting anyone except himself, in the end when he has to face A/A- players in the qualification rounds we all know how that's gonna end, so i don't see what the problem is. Nobody was complaining when mondragon played only foreigners last TSL, people do what they believe they have to do in order to qualify and there is nothing wrong with that. he is hurting #49 in the ladder pretty damn severly..... | ||
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grobo
Japan6199 Posts
On December 02 2009 08:35 Liquid`Drone wrote: he is hurting #49 in the ladder pretty damn severly..... Well that's true, but he could use the same tactics as Kwark, obviously playing straight up and not picking your players would be the most fair way to decide the top 48 but since there's nothing against it in the rules i don't see why everyone is giving him so much shit. | ||
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
On December 02 2009 08:32 KwarK wrote: 30 minutes before I played AoN.Deanotic at B+ vs B Lzgamer played him, at B+ vs B just as I did. Deanotic 2-0ed Lzgamer. It's not that I'm doing something others aren't or that I'm starting something. It's that my PvZ was strong enough to get the 2:1 win ratio required to make points doing it. If you think I had an easy road feel free to try and walk it. Tell me how that goes. Just because you're playing "real" games with your teammates doesn't change the fact that it looks like abuse. And even if you think you're actually playing games, there is a psychological factor involved, it goes like this "hey I'm playing KwarK, I know he's better than me and he's playing TSL and I'm not... if he continually beats me he might qualify" , such a thought process might lead him to play worse than he normally would and increase his likelihood of losing to you... making your games practically like getting free wins. | ||
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dranjam
Poland198 Posts
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KwarK
United States42265 Posts
Anyone who thinks it's especially easy can try to do it. Of course, I expect everyone in the top 100 right now could get A- the way I did but when I look down that list there are almost no names I don't recognise, no names that would seem out of place in a competition between decent foreigners. At present, the only difference between me and the vast majority of players below me is that I have played a lot more games. | ||
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integral
United States3156 Posts
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eXigent.
Canada2419 Posts
http://www.iccup.com/gamingprofile/TSL-ReasoN.html | ||
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s.a.y
Croatia3840 Posts
On December 02 2009 08:57 KwarK wrote: I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone outside those who are 'guaranteed' a spot such as Idra and Ret who hasn't played lower ranks (as I said, lzgamer played the same guy I did with the same rank I had half an hour before I did) and avoided dangerous competition. Anyone in Ladder A-B in the past week will have had direct experience with this, the players with worse records getting spammed and the players with better records struggling to get a game. People with weak matchups are avoiding playing them against top level players and people are refusing to play maps they dislike. If you're not going to have an invitational then this is the system. Anyone who thinks it's especially easy can try to do it. Of course, I expect everyone in the top 100 right now could get A- the way I did but when I look down that list there are almost no names I don't recognise, no names that would seem out of place in a competition between decent foreigners. At present, the only difference between me and the vast majority of players below me is that I have played a lot more games. either way, with this kind of play, you might barely squeeze into Q3 round, where you will be eliminated. that's the way I see it, your game picking will leave a better player a spot lower. I wish you luck in your legal ladder abuse. at least you are not denying it. | ||
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aqui
Germany1023 Posts
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dranjam
Poland198 Posts
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36374 Posts
On December 02 2009 08:57 integral wrote: Even though I can't wholeheartedly support KwarK's qualification strategy, either, it's definitely not against the rules. I cheer for him a little bit like I cheered for the swimmer from that african country in the olympics. We both have 120 apm, I feel like I can relate to him. Realistically no one except a very select group of players has a legitimate shot of placing in the money, making this primarily a tournament for fun. All of these players can get significantly higher than KwarK currently is on the ladder. If it's proved that by cheesing/downranking someone can get significantly higher on the ladder than where KwarK already is, then I will be more concerned about the quality of the games being played in TSL. As it stands, I'm not worried at all. ICCup Rules are as follows: Playing against the same person too many times: You are not allowed to play more than: 6 games between D- and D+ 9 Games between C- and C+ 12 Games between B- and B+ A- and Olympic — No more than 1000 points gained from 1 player. That could be as little as 8 games in a row, or it could potentially be 30-40 so long as 1 player doesn't gain more than 1000 points in total. From A- and higher rank, it is hard to find players also it is hard to gain points if game was win and loss together. ex) A- vs A- winner gets 130 pts, but loser will get -140 pts. one win and loss each player it's total -10 points for the player. This rule give more oppotunity for higher rank players. Per day vs. same person(or Team). However some may think that they could play 6 games today 6 tomorrow (D ranks) and so on but nothing more wrong. Those cases will be handled separately and most of the times probably penalized since you can abuse your way into higher ranks with this method. Also cases of games played vs. same friends across bigger periods of time will be evaluated individually. So if you feel like training with friends and gaining some rank with it you should just switch to melee. Also its forbidden to play vs. people that have the same IP as you(LAN houses etc.), here number of consecutive games vs that person won't even mather. The punishment for breaking this rulle is points penalty, clearstats or ban depending on how many games were played. I bolded the relevant portion. Even though you are technically allowed to 12-0 someone every 24 hours (the period of 6/9/12 allowable games is 24 hours), you can't just do this infinitely. Going 200-0 vs the same guy over a few months is still abuse (read the bolded portion). Thus, ICCup (and TSL) is allowed to review accounts on a case-by-case basis to determine whether they have abused. If Player 1 plays Player 2 48 times over 10 days @ B rank, going 48-0, this is technically "allowed" under the 12 games per day, but we can still DQ for abuse. The bolded part up there allows for a more flexible evaluation standard. | ||
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Glaucus
479 Posts
On December 02 2009 08:21 OneOther wrote: i just think it's so...dumb. this is one thing i do not like about ladder qualification systems. if one person starts doing it, i don't see why everybody else wouldn't. the laddeing process would become stupid. Don't call it dumb. TL staff made a good decision. New players can qualify and make a name for themselves thanks to a ladder. Not to mention it's disrespectful to TL staff. | ||
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