EPTTL Forum Podcast - Page 2
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
On August 06 2019 17:36 GreenHorizons wrote: Did you ever get around to them recognizing the mystery group identifier was whiteclub? It’s not really white club. Jay Z and Beyonce are in the American club for sure. Bill Ayers is white and he’s not in the club. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23515 Posts
On August 07 2019 12:50 IgnE wrote: It’s not really white club. Jay Z and Beyonce are in the American club for sure. Bill Ayers is white and he’s not in the club. Did you miss Kwark's explanation of whiteclub or are you disagreeing with it? | ||
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States23515 Posts
On August 07 2019 13:02 IgnE wrote: I saw his explanation. What about it? There's nothing contradictory (beyond the norm of white club) about Bill Ayers being (partially, it's not like he get's the cops called on em if he hangs out in starbucks) excluded and Jay-Z/Beyonce being proximal to/perpetuating/benefiting from it | ||
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
Well let me be clearer: I don’t think any analytical power is gained by saying that there’s an “exclusionary social group” based in some vague notions of “whiteness” that exercises “power” and where you can be invited in even if you don’t have white skin, because of course. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23515 Posts
On August 07 2019 13:08 IgnE wrote: Well if whiteness is not essential to white club then why call it white club? Because the fantastical construction of "whiteness" is essential to it, absurdly imagined or not. | ||
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States23515 Posts
On August 07 2019 13:15 IgnE wrote: Nah I don’t think it is. But just to be clear, are you saying that Jay Z and Beyonce perform some fantastical form of whiteness? I mean it is to this manifestation imo, but it's not like you couldn't replace "whiteness" with some other grouping "feature" filling the same role in an alternate timeline (though I'm sure it would bring along it's own nuance). As for Beyonce and Jay? I feel like the simple answer is "yes", but that's going to be problematic/insufficient if your sincerely confused about my position and not doing this more as an exploratory exercise. EDIT: Have you seen "Sorry to Bother You"? | ||
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
My intent is to try to suss out somethings that can't be done just in text, and we can't do that if we keep going back to the posts. | ||
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
I mean more than “white voice” maybe we should think about how “acting white” is used among youths. Calling it “white club” implies that the main criticism is simply that it is not racially representative, rather than that its networks of values, behaviors, ambitions, etc. are actually bad in themselves. To avoid simply being a reductive criticism of empirical racial representation, we would need to get a better handle on what the thing itself actually is. What’s so bad about “acting white”? Anything? | ||
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States23515 Posts
On August 07 2019 13:58 IgnE wrote: Yes, I’ve seen it. My point is that if white club is just a set of behaviors and values, that is only tied to skin color through historically contingent circumstances the key one being that in America for a very long time only people with brown skin color were slaves, then calling it white club both 1) reproduces its contingent ties to skin color and 2) misunderstands its most socially important features in 2019 — certain standards of wealth, conduct, interests, and speech, none of which are intrinsically tied to skin color anymore, except via its contingent and stochastically predictive empirical relationships to those things. I mean more than “white voice” maybe we should think about how “acting white” is used among youths. Calling it “white club” implies that the main criticism is simply that it is not racially representative, rather than that its networks of values, behaviors, ambitions, etc. are actually bad in themselves. To avoid simply being a reductive criticism of empirical racial representation, we would need to get a better handle on what the thing itself actually is. What’s so bad about “acting white”? Anything? I'm torn between your and Jer's arguments on this thread but I frankly think you're making a sophisticated "stupID-pol" argument that I'm not very interested in entertaining at the moment. My presumption is that you'd prefer "American club", as that's what you used previously? | ||
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States23515 Posts
On August 07 2019 15:26 Jerubaal wrote: Sorry, what argument of mine? That you don't want this to become an alt-politics thread. | ||
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On August 07 2019 13:59 IgnE wrote: Jerubaal, every great podcast has a discussion thread The irony is that 2/3 of the participants in the most recent podcast are participating in this discussion, and the third is quite literally banned from taking part in it. I understand discussing a podcast called TL Forum Podcast on the TL Forum. I just can't reconcile a discussion with a (stupidly) limited contributors. | ||
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
On August 07 2019 14:49 GreenHorizons wrote: I'm torn between your and Jer's arguments on this thread but I frankly think you're making a sophisticated "stupID-pol" argument that I'm not very interested in entertaining at the moment. My presumption is that you'd prefer "American club", as that's what you used previously? well if we are talking about nationalism in the context of the US then that seems like a fine term. “American” functions like an empty signifier, the point de capiton, in a way that “white club” does not. | ||
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