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On January 12 2012 22:34 Spekulatius wrote:Korean dramas are over there >>> linku.One of the most annoying things about Korean are the different kinds of romanization. The official Korean one, the McCune-Reischauer, the Yale one. Sometimes I read a romanized word and don't know what the heck it's supposed to mean or how it's supposed to be pronounced without knowing which romanization is being used. They should really come up with a spelling that makes sense. ex. 부산 is pronounced Pusan yet spelt Busan in the official Korean transcription. It's a system made for foreigners to be able to pronounce Korean terms so why not make it easy for them? <.<
Because its hard to put a langauge with unique sounds in letters that others dont understand. The actual sound probably is somewhere between b and p. Even in my language there are a lot of sounds I wouldnt be able to put in such letters that a foreigner would be able to pronounce it easily...
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On January 12 2012 22:34 Spekulatius wrote:Korean dramas are over there >>> linku.One of the most annoying things about Korean are the different kinds of romanization. The official Korean one, the McCune-Reischauer, the Yale one. Sometimes I read a romanized word and don't know what the heck it's supposed to mean or how it's supposed to be pronounced without knowing which romanization is being used. They should really come up with a spelling that makes sense. ex. 부산 is pronounced Pusan yet spelt Busan in the official Korean transcription. It's a system made for foreigners to be able to pronounce Korean terms so why not make it easy for them? <.<
I find romanization annoying too, but I have a different reason why: I'm learning Korean and I have no use for romanization. IMO it just gets in the way for someone really trying to learn the language. It's fine for situations where the person isn't actually trying to learn Korean. In that case it doesn't much matter that you can't tell if Pusan is "부산" or "푸산" in Korean, because you're not trying to learn Korean.
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I know of the difficulties arising from transcribing sounds from one language into another. Romanization is a hard task but what I ask for is only one coherent system that people agree on. The official Korean one is definitely bollocks.
@ Killerducky: Thing is, that's the only purpose of a romanization. If you speak a Korean or if you're on your way to doing so, you won't need romanization. Romanization is made for foreigners who don't speak a word of Korean and aren't willing to learn it but want to be able to at least pronounce the words correctly for basic understanding purposed, namely tourism and news stories. That's why it is needed. And that's why I can't understand how they can fuck it up so badly. Well, not badly, but totally incoherently.
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I wanna learn korean so bad, but I'm so lazy I've already tried multiple times and just given up.
I guess I'm just not really motivated.
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On January 13 2012 05:39 B.I.G. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 22:34 Spekulatius wrote:Korean dramas are over there >>> linku.One of the most annoying things about Korean are the different kinds of romanization. The official Korean one, the McCune-Reischauer, the Yale one. Sometimes I read a romanized word and don't know what the heck it's supposed to mean or how it's supposed to be pronounced without knowing which romanization is being used. They should really come up with a spelling that makes sense. ex. 부산 is pronounced Pusan yet spelt Busan in the official Korean transcription. It's a system made for foreigners to be able to pronounce Korean terms so why not make it easy for them? <.< Because its hard to put a langauge with unique sounds in letters that others dont understand. The actual sound probably is somewhere between b and p. Even in my language there are a lot of sounds I wouldnt be able to put in such letters that a foreigner would be able to pronounce it easily...
Technically we have the IPA for that, but the IPA's hella useless if you have no experience with linguistics. =__= And even then, I imagine Korean dialects would mess things up a little there too?
Anyways, I didn't even know this thread was here, but I found it in the sidebar recently, and just gotta say the TMIK site is wonderful. It's not exactly what I'm looking for -- I'm more interested in reading/writing than in speaking/listening (more of a translation-by-text person myself ...) -- but it's a lot easier (and more fun) to pick up vocab through speaking/listening than through pure reading and writing, especially for modern languages.
It's also just plain difficult to find a comprehensive site that lets you approach Korean from the angle of "I just want to be able to read the text, dump the grammar on me, and tell me how to look everything else I don't know up in the dictionary," though if someone wants to help me there, feel free to throw a link at me that's not Wikipedia. =X
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United States82 Posts
On January 13 2012 16:48 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 05:39 B.I.G. wrote:On January 12 2012 22:34 Spekulatius wrote:Korean dramas are over there >>> linku.One of the most annoying things about Korean are the different kinds of romanization. The official Korean one, the McCune-Reischauer, the Yale one. Sometimes I read a romanized word and don't know what the heck it's supposed to mean or how it's supposed to be pronounced without knowing which romanization is being used. They should really come up with a spelling that makes sense. ex. 부산 is pronounced Pusan yet spelt Busan in the official Korean transcription. It's a system made for foreigners to be able to pronounce Korean terms so why not make it easy for them? <.< Because its hard to put a langauge with unique sounds in letters that others dont understand. The actual sound probably is somewhere between b and p. Even in my language there are a lot of sounds I wouldnt be able to put in such letters that a foreigner would be able to pronounce it easily... Technically we have the IPA for that, but the IPA's hella useless if you have no experience with linguistics. =__= And even then, I imagine Korean dialects would mess things up a little there too? Anyways, I didn't even know this thread was here, but I found it in the sidebar recently, and just gotta say the TMIK site is wonderful. It's not exactly what I'm looking for -- I'm more interested in reading/writing than in speaking/listening (more of a translation-by-text person myself ...) -- but it's a lot easier (and more fun) to pick up vocab through speaking/listening than through pure reading and writing, especially for modern languages. It's also just plain difficult to find a comprehensive site that lets you approach Korean from the angle of "I just want to be able to read the text, dump the grammar on me, and tell me how to look everything else I don't know up in the dictionary," though if someone wants to help me there, feel free to throw a link at me that's not Wikipedia. =X
this is exactly what ttmik is, just read the pdf's man
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On January 13 2012 17:14 stablol wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 16:48 babylon wrote:On January 13 2012 05:39 B.I.G. wrote:On January 12 2012 22:34 Spekulatius wrote:Korean dramas are over there >>> linku.One of the most annoying things about Korean are the different kinds of romanization. The official Korean one, the McCune-Reischauer, the Yale one. Sometimes I read a romanized word and don't know what the heck it's supposed to mean or how it's supposed to be pronounced without knowing which romanization is being used. They should really come up with a spelling that makes sense. ex. 부산 is pronounced Pusan yet spelt Busan in the official Korean transcription. It's a system made for foreigners to be able to pronounce Korean terms so why not make it easy for them? <.< Because its hard to put a langauge with unique sounds in letters that others dont understand. The actual sound probably is somewhere between b and p. Even in my language there are a lot of sounds I wouldnt be able to put in such letters that a foreigner would be able to pronounce it easily... Technically we have the IPA for that, but the IPA's hella useless if you have no experience with linguistics. =__= And even then, I imagine Korean dialects would mess things up a little there too? Anyways, I didn't even know this thread was here, but I found it in the sidebar recently, and just gotta say the TMIK site is wonderful. It's not exactly what I'm looking for -- I'm more interested in reading/writing than in speaking/listening (more of a translation-by-text person myself ...) -- but it's a lot easier (and more fun) to pick up vocab through speaking/listening than through pure reading and writing, especially for modern languages. It's also just plain difficult to find a comprehensive site that lets you approach Korean from the angle of "I just want to be able to read the text, dump the grammar on me, and tell me how to look everything else I don't know up in the dictionary," though if someone wants to help me there, feel free to throw a link at me that's not Wikipedia. =X this is exactly what ttmik is, just read the pdf's man
I do, and no it isn't straight grammar, at least not for Level 1, or at least not to the extent that I'd like. 
By straight grammar, I mean a site that's more like a reference grammar but is still organized in such a way so as to still be decently useful to a beginner.
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United States82 Posts
On January 14 2012 05:21 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 17:14 stablol wrote:On January 13 2012 16:48 babylon wrote:On January 13 2012 05:39 B.I.G. wrote:On January 12 2012 22:34 Spekulatius wrote:Korean dramas are over there >>> linku.One of the most annoying things about Korean are the different kinds of romanization. The official Korean one, the McCune-Reischauer, the Yale one. Sometimes I read a romanized word and don't know what the heck it's supposed to mean or how it's supposed to be pronounced without knowing which romanization is being used. They should really come up with a spelling that makes sense. ex. 부산 is pronounced Pusan yet spelt Busan in the official Korean transcription. It's a system made for foreigners to be able to pronounce Korean terms so why not make it easy for them? <.< Because its hard to put a langauge with unique sounds in letters that others dont understand. The actual sound probably is somewhere between b and p. Even in my language there are a lot of sounds I wouldnt be able to put in such letters that a foreigner would be able to pronounce it easily... Technically we have the IPA for that, but the IPA's hella useless if you have no experience with linguistics. =__= And even then, I imagine Korean dialects would mess things up a little there too? Anyways, I didn't even know this thread was here, but I found it in the sidebar recently, and just gotta say the TMIK site is wonderful. It's not exactly what I'm looking for -- I'm more interested in reading/writing than in speaking/listening (more of a translation-by-text person myself ...) -- but it's a lot easier (and more fun) to pick up vocab through speaking/listening than through pure reading and writing, especially for modern languages. It's also just plain difficult to find a comprehensive site that lets you approach Korean from the angle of "I just want to be able to read the text, dump the grammar on me, and tell me how to look everything else I don't know up in the dictionary," though if someone wants to help me there, feel free to throw a link at me that's not Wikipedia. =X this is exactly what ttmik is, just read the pdf's man I do, and no it isn't straight grammar, at least not for Level 1, or at least not to the extent that I'd like. By straight grammar, I mean a site that's more like a reference grammar but is still organized in such a way so as to still be decently useful to a beginner.
2nd half of lesson one and all of lesson 2-3 are very good
give it another chance
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Herm. Has anybody used FSI?
Also, what is with all the online advice of "watch kdrama" If you don't know any korean what good does it do.
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On January 14 2012 14:28 Froadac wrote:
Herm. Has anybody used FSI?
Also, what is with all the online advice of "watch kdrama" If you don't know any korean what good does it do.
This is pretty standard advice for learning any language. Watch foreign TV shows with subtitles and you'll pick up on some things. It also helps alot with slang.
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United States82 Posts
its more for accompanying study.
very useful
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On January 11 2012 09:08 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 19:00 Escoffier wrote:
can anyone tell me why you pronounce the first of the final double consonants in 몫대, making it pronounced like "목데", but normally, in other final double consonants, you generally pronounce the second consonant, making 닭대 sound like it's pronounced "닥대" ?
is there some rule or do I have to memorize all the exceptions There's no rule (that I've found). It's case-by-case and annoying.
Yeah mate, I'm with you, the most annoying one I've found is 없는데, which is pronounced 엄는데. I understand the phonetic adaptation from ㅂ -> ㅁ normally, but given that the ㅅ is the way, I want to pronounce it 엇는데.
As for 닭 (chicken), I remember hearing that nowadays the ㄹ is irrelevant and it's always 닥 (so the spelling is pretty much for show), even if it were, for example 닭은. You would pronounce it 다큰.
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On January 15 2012 19:50 Suc wrote:
As for 닭 (chicken), I remember hearing that nowadays the ㄹ is irrelevant and it's always 닥 (so the spelling is pretty much for show), even if it were, for example 닭은. You would pronounce it 다큰.
spelling is pretty much for show for a lot of the english words too.
and 닭은 is pronouced 닥은 not 다큰.
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On January 15 2012 21:07 don_kyuhote wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2012 19:50 Suc wrote:
As for 닭 (chicken), I remember hearing that nowadays the ㄹ is irrelevant and it's always 닥 (so the spelling is pretty much for show), even if it were, for example 닭은. You would pronounce it 다큰. spelling is pretty much for show for a lot of the english words too. and 닭은 is pronouced 닥은 not 다큰.
Whoops yeah, I should've written 다근 instead of 다큰. It would have been 다큰 if it was 닥흔.
Now, I'm not Korean or super good at Korean, so I'm not completely sure, but if you were to write the pronunciation purely phonetically, wouldn't it be 다근, not 닥은? Everything I've learnt so far seems to suggest that.
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I've heard there are alot of similarities with Japanese and Korean though I don't know anyone personally who's studied both. Does anyone here have any experience of learning Korean after Japanese?
I studied Japanese for a few years in college and am just trying to get an idea how much (or little) it will help me if I take up Korean.
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On January 16 2012 07:40 greenmarine wrote:
I've heard there are alot of similarities with Japanese and Korean though I don't know anyone personally who's studied both. Does anyone here have any experience of learning Korean after Japanese?
I studied Japanese for a few years in college and am just trying to get an idea how much (or little) it will help me if I take up Korean.
Japanese and Korean share a lot of similarities. I think you'll find that a lot of the grammar in Korean have an almost identical Japanese conterpart, such as the particle は(wa) and 은/는 (eun/neun) for example.
I think if you already know Japanese, then you'll find that korean grammar won't be that hard. It's just going to be reclassifying a lot of the words into a different language, like a straight up cipher (if that analogy makes sense ).
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On January 16 2012 07:40 greenmarine wrote:
I've heard there are alot of similarities with Japanese and Korean though I don't know anyone personally who's studied both. Does anyone here have any experience of learning Korean after Japanese?
I studied Japanese for a few years in college and am just trying to get an idea how much (or little) it will help me if I take up Korean.
I'm studying both atm, and despite the grammar being quite similar in some regards, I disagree with people saying that they are basically identical, or you can use one as a cipher of the other.
You will get through the basics probably really easily, e.g. basic particles like 는/은 = は, 가/이 = が, 을/를 = を, 의 = の, 에 is kinda へ and に, 에서 = で(in terms of location, not instrumental, e.g. こうえんでうんどうした [I'm not sure how much kanji you've done, so I just left that all in hiragana]), (으)로 = で(in instrumental terms this time, e.g. バスで行った), 에서 = から (from), 까지 = まで, 하고 = と etc etc. Where there are two options for the particles, they are usually chosen depending on whether the word ends in a vowel or not, so pretty easy.
The honorific style is a bit different from Japanese, but knowing the Japanese one will be helpful nonetheless. Umm, if I think of any grammatical structures, even though I really don't like doing this, I guess -고 has a few similar functions to -て, but I'm probably getting ahead of myself, haha.
Just a final thing, adjectives are quite different in Korean to Japanese and English, e.g. if you were to say, "The juice is cheap", in non-plain form, it would be "ジュースがやすいです”. In Korean, adjectives are like verbs, they have tense (like い-adjectives) and formality. Literally, you would say "Juice cheap" (no "is" because "cheap" acts like a verb), 주스는 싸요.
tl;dr: You find some helpful similarities and will probably have an easier time than others picking up the basics.
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I haven't read everything. Is this still running or will be? Or just everyone learn individually?
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On January 11 2012 18:03 Escoffier wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 20:36 kestry wrote:TL Name: kestry What you know: Konglish  ( Pororo level vocab. Korean speaking level is not very good. And writing is 똥. Recently leveled up reading speed to be a bit faster than a 5 year old. Goals: Fluency! Increase vocabulary.... Want to be able to have natural conversations with my boyfriend and his Korean friends.  And understand TV shows and SC2 commentators and would be nice to use Naver for my questions and recipe needs. Hi, learnkorean.com has a nice and quick breakdown of the pronunciation rules on Lesson 1-3. (complex final consonant excerpt): NB) Final consonant clusters: ㄳ, ㄵ, ㄶ, ㄺ, ㄻ, ㄼ, ㄽ, ㄾ, ㄿ, ㅀ, ㅄ Except for ㄺ, ㄻ, ㄼ, ㄽ, ㄾ, ㄿ, ㅀ (ones with ㄹ placed befre another consonant), when followed by another consonant or nothing, the second consonant of the cluster becomes silent. This second consonant will come alive when there is a vowel after it. 값 = kap "price" 값 + 과 = kap kwa "price and" 값 + 이 = kapsi "price (with a subject particle)" No, I was told by a native speaker that there are some exceptions to that rule. re-read my post for an example
Oh sorry, your example seemed like the standard rather than exception to the rule above which is why I thought a general beginner breakdown of pronunciation rules would be helpful.
edit: That said, I think in all subjects, especially in languages, exceptions just have to be memorized. But I personally think that it's easier to go from a general rule for the majority of instances and then to learn the exceptions as being a more efficient learning method, so that's what I offered, since it seemed from the original post that you had gotten the "general rule" kinda backwards, and I think it's much easier to gain a sense of how it works if at least I have a basic foundation of pronunciation including nasalization, palatalization etc, so it's not 10,000 exceptions (aka, all instances of one) but rather 10 and then 20 exceptions and then a few more as I learn. ^^ But I agree it is quite annoying and I guess that's something to be thankful about being a native English speaker because English really doesn't have much for rules on pronunciation lol.
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On January 16 2012 10:45 Suc wrote:
tl;dr: You find some helpful similarities and will probably have an easier time than others picking up the basics.
Thanks. Knowing that there are so many similarities makes it easier for me to motivate myself to study.
That and Kanji was always the thing I hated most about Japanese. To have to memorize over a thousand characters just to read a newspaper is just ridiculous to me. In hindsight, I probably would've done alot better taking Korean in college instead, or maybe both like you.
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EPT
