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Hello, all! It's become quite apparent that many of you are not reading the first post carefully. Failure to do so in the future will be met with swift punishment. And as always, remember to be civil. Thanks, Empyrean. Time stamp: 03:59 KST. | ||
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BillyHardcore
Denmark104 Posts
On May 08 2011 08:52 Fatalize wrote: If we follow TL's rule to ban for things that dont even happen on the forum, CrunCher and IdrA should have been banned after that serie. Look at your post, now think really hard, look at the ceiling, look back at your post. Do you still agree with your statement? | ||
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Roggay
Switzerland6320 Posts
On May 08 2011 08:42 ZeeMan wrote: This will probably hurt TL more than idra. Having him and other pros post here probably draws quite a few people. But TL can't really take ppl spamming them. I worry he might not come back after the 90 days. 90 days too long He has been banned 90days previously, he always came back and he never learnt. | ||
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WniO
United States2706 Posts
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Hrrrrm
United States2081 Posts
On May 08 2011 08:51 Whitebeard wrote: So far what I'm getting from this whole thing is: Idra pretty much just said "i don't care its a ladder game, don't give cruncher more attention than he deserves" and gets 2 day ban, ok questionable decision but whatever, only 2 day ban. Then Idra put something up on twitter that most normal people should've taken as a joke since only dumb people would actually go ahead and spam Chill for something like this, lol Idra isn't holding a gun to these people's heads and telling them to spam but apparently idiots did spam chill, probably the retarded portion of Idra fans and antifans lookin to get Idra into more trouble. IMO, everyone who spammed chill should be temp banned or whatever...but the 90 day ban on Idra might be a little too much, I don't know. LOL! I love this! Now a conspiracy theory that people that don't like Idra sent Chill PM's to get him in trouble. Maybe Cruncher created some new accounts and sent the worst PM's to Chill! Time to investigate!! | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
Edited as that didn't read quite the way it needed to. | ||
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Asshat
593 Posts
On May 08 2011 08:49 Delvin wrote: TL's triggerhappy mods at it again. Mildly amusing to follow. Incidentally I had no idea he was banned for a whole month this year and that pretty much proves how little effect this has. Even if Idra *did* get permabanned from the site, what would change? He hardly posts anything important and could just continue playing, and people would still talk about him all the time. It's not like people are going to ignore the most successful foreigner, even if he acts like an ass. He's certainly not even close to being the most successful foreigner, he's arguably not even the most successful NA player. That is, basing success on tournament results, not some arbitrary measure of "skill". | ||
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
On May 08 2011 08:49 Delvin wrote: TL's triggerhappy mods at it again. Mildly amusing to follow. Incidentally I had no idea he was banned for a whole month this year and that pretty much proves how little effect this has. Even if Idra *did* get permabanned from the site, what would change? He hardly posts anything important and could just continue playing, and people would still talk about him all the time. It's not like people are going to ignore the most successful foreigner, even if he acts like an ass. What success was that? Rotting in the B-team of BW teams for a couple of years and winning a few small time mostly amateur tournaments. Wooo what a superstar User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Fatalize
France5210 Posts
On May 08 2011 08:57 BillyHardcore wrote: Look at your post, now think really hard, look at the ceiling, look back at your post. Do you still agree with your statement? Yes. What is non-logical with that ? TL ban people for things they dont do on the forum (which is stupid). As such they should have been banned. Just following the rules. | ||
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CeriseCherries
6170 Posts
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SeaMoosi
United States62 Posts
As good a player as the guy may be, telling his followers to all message a moderator for doing his job? (volunteer job, I should add) Idra has been especially prone to making rash statements and thinking he's in the right, like in the last SotG. This sort of thing was a long time coming. It's good to see TL can still take the high road. | ||
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Wiseman
United States41 Posts
On May 08 2011 08:29 Klogon wrote: Please stop with your comparisons with real sports and then bring in old superstars. In today's sports world, doing what Idra did to Chill would be like a player naming a specific ref and telling fans on his twitter to harass him (by email/phone/whatever). Do you honestly think that would go unpunished? When a figher in the UFC insults Dana White, the fighter's contract gets terminated. When Wayne Rooney said " who the fuck are you" to a camera man directly into the camera a month ago, he got a 2-match ban. If anything, the fact that this is the internet filled with immature and anonymous people is what allows shit like this to happen and have people defend the offenders so passionately. In the real world of professional sports where the organization wants a good image (The NFL is absolutely anal about good image), there is actually much less tolerance. Klogon, Sorry if this upset you. No I do not think that if someone told them to contact a ref it would be unpunished, which if you would read other posts I have made, I already agreed with the 90 day ban. Furthermore, i mean people get fined just for questioning an officials decision. If we want to talk about sports today, we still have competitors and we still have trash talking, but we don't have the harassment. You are correct. The leagues are different now and will be forever more and I for one think that we are worse off for it (from an entertainment perspective). I guess my point in bringing up the old superstars was just that we are in a competitive sport with competitive people. You couldn't expect them to be civilized all the time. Now we live in a society where we have all this access to individuals, but we expect them to act civilized all the time. Its baffling. My general point in bringing up real sports is the feeling that the initial 2-day ban was an overreaction to two competitors, and that is what started this whole cluster F. I believe that if this was a real sport, that a line like Idra's would be a talking point on a show, rather than a 2-day ban from THE community website. I love TL. I love what the TL admins have done for TL. I just wonder if TL will have to evolve as eSports becomes more and more of a real sport. Somewhere along the line, holding on to the notion of eHonor and being an eSamuarai will force you to fall on your own sword. EDIT: To fix dyslexia related mispelling. | ||
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enexiss
8 Posts
On May 08 2011 08:52 waxypants wrote: This has been said 1000 time but: IdrA was approached by the mods and said he had no regrets or an apology to give. So do you still think he did not intend for people to spam Chill? What exactly did he do that he would feel sorry for? Cruncher cheated and apparently, not for the first time. Idra was telling everyone to chill about it and let his honest opinion of him slip while doing it. Oops. This culminates in a mod getting some PMs. It's not exactly a tragedy here. What do you want him to say? "I'm sorry you had to clean out your inbox, Chill." "I'm sorry everyone knows that I don't think you're worth much, Cruncher." Is that really what people are clamoring for? | ||
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sicp
United States13 Posts
That being said, this ban is totally justified. "Mob justice" and harassment is very rarely the correct answer, and was completely unnecessary in these circumstances. Harassment of Chill and/or other members of the Teamliquid community should not be tolerated. | ||
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snailz
Croatia900 Posts
On May 08 2011 08:58 infinity2k9 wrote: What success was that? Rotting in the B-team of BW teams for a couple of years and winning a few small time mostly amateur tournaments. Wooo what a superstar if this was said about lets say any TLAF'Liquid player, i think ban would be given? will it for Idra? | ||
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eMazing
59 Posts
On May 08 2011 08:55 Belial88 wrote: I don't agree with this part, Cruncher isn't going around TL and telling people that IdrA is just "a waste of life" or something along those lines. IdrA new exactly what he was getting into when he said that, he has been banned many times for saying worse, and you don't give "warnings" to someone who acts that way. This isn't a normal internet board where insults are allowed to fly and 4chanesque post aren't allowed. TL wants people to be mature and they don't care that people are angry or mad, they will risk leavers to keep the sanctity of the forums intact.I don't agree with Idra being banned for saying Cruncher is a waste of life. It's his opinion, maybe he should get a warn for being a bit inflammatory, but if he doesnt like cruncher then he doesnt like him, what can you do about it? As for Idra's twitter message, I don't know... | ||
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Roggay
Switzerland6320 Posts
On May 08 2011 08:59 Fatalize wrote: Yes. What is non-logical with that ? TL ban people for things they dont do on the forum (which is stupid). As such they should have been banned. Just following the rules. Because suggesting his fans to harass a TL mod via TL is not related to the forum? Yea right... | ||
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Dysz
Sweden26 Posts
I think its bad of TL staff to take crunchers side in this and show Idra no respect by banning him. Idra is known in the game and deservs alot more apreciation by ppl. I feel like cruncher mocking him to get famous or hes just a kid that needs to grow up a bit. Cruncher started it by streamsniping and cheating by having Idras stream open when playing him on ladder. This is not a 1-day ocasion since cruncher have done this alot to bm Idra. Some games you just see him unknowly knowing exactly what Idras does and he counters it. Hes bad at faking this by sending observers just so the buildings etc shows on his screen and fast bring it out of base. I feel this frustation and Idra as anybody else can have a opinion and trash talk a guy who does like cruncher. Why does TL staff get into the conflict? Just getting ppl to be mad as i have seen some ppl are. Yes, TL will live on but using its power as staff and making a really confusing decision and also taking side of only 1 person in the conflict is not how this should be solved. Leave it to the players. Imo opinion I would be mad and feel like backstabbed and ofc showing it, thats the most realistic reaction and by giving Idra the ban on 90-days just makes Crunchers smile even bigger. While taking side as some TL-staff did just made it all to a winner looser thing, and its quite clear who is what. To finish this without going on forever it seems like either way both banned or only cruncher for cheating. Trashtalking is sometimes part of the game and no cheating against any rules. All win if we can see streams of top notch players but if ppl follow crunchers stuff noone will want since rank MATTERS in grandmaster league while the run for the best players is showing. Love TL in a whole! Doesnt agree with the ''resolving'' if this conflict! Edit: funny Idra won alot of the games even if cruncher cheated. Forgot that fact. importent just for the funnyness. | ||
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Vansetsu
United States1454 Posts
I think there are some super black and white things here - - TL is a well moderated semi-privileged forum. Idra, because of his endeavors/popularity/whatever, has a good amount of privilege above others. He gets away with a lot of whining, inferred personal attacks, and basically things your average poster wouldn't get warned about (they'd get autobanned). - Being this is a privileged forum, it's silly to compare precedents for bans, because TL determines this whole thing, not you (the average tl'r). - Anyone who can read the rules of this forum, enough to actually post something in this thread, can clearly see Idra could easily be permabanned long ago, let alone attacking TL staff. To argue and get upset at a 90 day ban that only effect's Idra's ability to post one-line garbage zingers here and there really perplexes me (not really, but in a better world it would and should.) A few gray areas - - I can't agree with ghosting via a stream as a punishable offense. I would actually be extremely disappointed if it was. If you choose to play competitively while you stream, and choose not to delay your stream, those are all choices you make. Lets say Idra and his roommate Machine are playing in the finals of a 10,000 online tournament. For some reason, Idra decides to move his monitor in plain sight of Machine's peripheral vision. Should Machine be made a cheater or assumed a chater because Idra decided to make his gameplay visible for Machine? Pretty much the same thing... - TL seems like it finding itself in awkward and interesting positions. It's becoming so large now, growing as western interest in e-sports grows... it will be interesting to see if the ideals it's run by can stand the increasing influx of new users that join the community. It's interesting to watch a system like TL change, and how politics play out (because often times, most of it will be transparent right on it's very forums). - Will there be better standards for high profile posters inside the TL forums? Allowing drama creates more interest, but is it good interest? Again, I think sometime soon there will need to be some lines drawn for a lot of things. The niche is becoming more mainstream everyday, and this is where the mainstream comes to grab their memes, stories, ect. What rubs off is ultimately a product of the individual, but what promotes/allows that effort is the forum and the etiquette required to communicate through it. TL has a huge indirect effect on what "mainstream" will someday be, just how someone like Artosis can simply get excited about something and it can be widley considered "high level" whether he's right or he isn't. What kind of e-sport's "mainstream" does TL want to nurture? Personal thoughts on the whole thing - Idra, trying to or not, has done a lot to help the community grow larger. That's the only reason he shouldn't get a permaban IMO. If he doesn't like the rules or being an adult he can start posting on the EG forums or something and see how that goes. To be honest e-sports, TL, and SC2 are growing well enough that I don't think anything would really fall apart if Idra had to follow the rules like most people on a forum. My 2 cents. | ||
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Immanency
United States82 Posts
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Jonoman92
United States9105 Posts
edit: originally wrote steam instead of stream by mistake.... but that correction probably wasn't even needed | ||
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