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Don't post in this thread to say "gay gamers are like everyone else, why do they have a special thread?" It is something that has been posted numerous times, and this isn't the place for that discussion. For regular posters, don't quote the trolls. | ||
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The KY
United Kingdom6252 Posts
This is a problem I have with religion; I think morality should be based on empathy. i.e. 'Is my action harming anyone' if yes, desist, if no, do whatever. Obviously it's not as black and white as that but that's the basic rule of thumb. The bible seems to make moral judgements without any such logic i.e. 'x activity is wrong.' 'Why?' 'Because I damn well said so.' If I was less tired I'd articulate that better. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
It's people with those mindsets who 50 years ago in America would be like "well, I don't believe Blacks are evil or anything, but it's right that there are separate sections in buses/restaurants" Thankfully the 2nd case is no longer socially acceptable to say on a public forum, and hopefully the same will happen to the first case in time. | ||
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froidcoeur
Singapore13 Posts
On March 02 2011 00:02 The KY wrote: Why is being non-reproductive a bad thing? As for hygiene, the bible calls homosexuality an 'abomination'. Would it say that because it was unhygienic? Which I don't see that is particularly is. Besides, many gay people never even have anal sex. This is a problem I have with religion; I think morality should be based on empathy. i.e. 'Is my action harming anyone' if yes, desist, if no, do whatever. Obviously it's not as black and white as that but that's the basic rule of thumb. The bible seems to make moral judgements without any such logic i.e. 'x activity is wrong.' 'Why?' 'Because I damn well said so.' If I was less tired I'd articulate that better. you're right about the abomination bit. the non-reproductive and unhygienic part doesn't have any biblical basis - it's just my take on why God doesn't like homosexuality. as for morality being based on empathy, your view is well backed up by many philosophers and theorists. mills' harm principle, for those who have heard it, essentially says the same thing - that what does not harm others should be allowed. fair enough, but there are some activities that are in a grey area. take for example watching porn, which doesn't harm anyone in the conventional sense but would probably be considered immoral. homosexuality falls into the same category imo. every society, i believe, has its own objective yardstick for what is moral and what is not. the christian yardstick is, as you rightly point out, what God says. many people may not agree with the christian perspective but i doubt they'd be able to come to a consensus on what is moral. | ||
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Husnan
France298 Posts
I suggest we make a rule for this thread along the lines of : if you're gonna start your post with "I'm christian and..." or "I'm christian but..." or whatever, I think you might as well go suck a bible somewhere else. Nobody here cares what christians think. Nobody here wants your fucking pity or sympathy or condescendance or understanding, and the same goes for your frowning upon our sinful ways. Nobody wants to hear you put gays and murderers or child molesters in the same basket. Go make your very own "We believe in unicorns" thread and leave our "We believe in rainbows" alone. I promise I'll resist my urge to come troll it. User was warned for this post | ||
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FoFo
Netherlands207 Posts
On March 02 2011 00:41 Husnan wrote: Ok, this shit has gone on long enough. I suggest we make a rule for this thread along the lines of : if you're gonna start your post with "I'm christian and..." or "I'm christian but..." or whatever, I think you might as well go suck a bible somewhere else. Nobody here cares what christians think. Nobody here wants your fucking pity or sympathy or condescendance or understanding, and the same goes for your frowning upon our sinful ways. Nobody wants to hear you put gays and murderers or child molesters in the same basket. Go make your very own "We believe in unicorns" thread and leave our "We believe in rainbows" alone. I promise I'll resist my urge to come troll it. let's keep this a discussion shall we? there's nothing wrong with christians and as you take offence in some things christians say, i'm sure they take offence in you comparing god to a unicorn.. the bible classifies homosexuality as unnatural. in contemporary times it has been interpreted to mean immoral. but i believe there's logic behind it. homosexuality (1) is non-reproductive and (2) is more unhygienic, the rear passage being, well, generally not so clean. and before anyone starts classifying christians as bigots, and the bible as discriminatory, i would add that the bible tells me to love my neighbour too. that includes gays and bis  bis, well, insofar as you are attracted to the same sex, my views on homosexuality apply. i don't see unhygienic as a reason, people of that time generally didn't care all that much about hygene i think lol i also don't see how non-reproductivity can be considered bad, but i guess that is more a matter of opinion. regardless of these 2 issues though, being gay is never a choice so why is it considered a sin if you have no control over it? and to those who still believe it is... seriously? xD there's so many gays that want to be straight but still get kicked out of their familys... edit: fixed quote hopefully? | ||
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Husnan
France298 Posts
On March 02 2011 00:59 FoFo wrote: let's keep this a discussion shall we? there's nothing wrong with christians and as you take offence in some things christians say, i'm sure they take offence in you comparing god to a unicorn.. You can't be serious? Have you read the crap they posted all over the last 2-3 pages? "I'm not anti-gay but I think it's a sin to be gay. Although I would still try to talk to a gay person just like I would try to talk to a murderer or a child molester" I damn well hope they take offense and leave us the fuck alone. Anyway, I reported this whole shit to moderation, so I'll just sit tight and stfu while I wait for the banhammer to fall heavily on some empty heads. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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BillClinton
232 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
On March 02 2011 00:59 FoFo wrote: let's keep this a discussion shall we? there's nothing wrong with christians and as you take offence in some things christians say, i'm sure they take offence in you comparing god to a unicorn.. Heaven forbid we equate some made up shizzle with some other made up shizzle  | ||
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Shiragaku
Hong Kong4308 Posts
And I believe we should cancel out the Old Testament. In the New Testament, Jesus either contradicts the OT or reinforces the rules he sees fit. For example, do not kill. Jesus says that you should not only kill people, but if you hate someone, you have already commited murder. I am trying to remember what Jesus said about gays but he definately spoke against the rich and did not think too well of divorce. So my conclusion is, if we gays cannot marry, then you cannot divorce. | ||
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adrenaLinG
Canada676 Posts
On March 02 2011 00:59 FoFo wrote: let's keep this a discussion shall we? there's nothing wrong with christians and as you take offence in some things christians say, i'm sure they take offence in you comparing god to a unicorn.. i don't see unhygienic as a reason, people of that time generally didn't care all that much about hygene i think lol i also don't see how non-reproductivity can be considered bad, but i guess that is more a matter of opinion. regardless of these 2 issues though, being gay is never a choice so why is it considered a sin if you have no control over it? and to those who still believe it is... seriously? xD there's so many gays that want to be straight but still get kicked out of their familys... edit: fixed quote hopefully? The bible is not a good source for morals or facts.. there are obvious references to slavery, and many passages from the bible are logically contradictory. I'm pretty sure unicorns are more harmless and prettyful than some omniscient omnipresent christian god! | ||
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slothly
England20 Posts
On March 01 2011 23:43 froidcoeur wrote: the bible classifies homosexuality as unnatural. in contemporary times it has been interpreted to mean immoral. but i believe there's logic behind it. homosexuality (1) is non-reproductive and (2) is more unhygienic, the rear passage being, well, generally not so clean. and before anyone starts classifying christians as bigots, and the bible as discriminatory, i would add that the bible tells me to love my neighbour too. that includes gays and bis bis, well, insofar as you are attracted to the same sex, my views on homosexuality apply. There is no logical reason why homosexuality is amoral, none reproductive sex is a perfectly valid way to live ones life in an age where human population is expanding exponentially and the biological imperative to procreate has been removed. As to it being unclean, again there is no basis whatsoever for this claim, plenty of sexual acts and other are just as 'unclean' yet im sure you have performed them with few moral compunctions. Your rational is flimsy, as for falling back on the bible for guidance: How do you consolidate these passages with your faith? Leviticus 25:44-45 Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. Deuteronomy 22:20-1 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. | ||
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FoFo
Netherlands207 Posts
On March 02 2011 01:05 Husnan wrote: You can't be serious? Have you read the crap they posted all over the last 2-3 pages? "I'm not anti-gay but I think it's a sin to be gay. Although I would still try to talk to a gay person just like I would try to talk to a murderer or a child molester" I damn well hope they take offense and leave us the fuck alone. Anyway, I reported this whole shit to moderation, so I'll just sit tight and stfu while I wait for the banhammer to fall heavily on some empty heads. well i didn't read too far back :$ i just ment there's not something wrong with christians by definition... | ||
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Shiragaku
Hong Kong4308 Posts
And then take a look at the Soviet Union, Communist China, and North Korea. They are most certainly not religious and they condemn homosexuality as being "Western culture." Yeah, it is more of an sociological issue than a religious issue which arguably fits in the same category in this debate. | ||
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slothly
England20 Posts
On March 02 2011 01:07 FoFo wrote: well i didn't read too far back :$ i just ment there's not something wrong with christians by definition... That all depends on how strictly they adhere to the bible. | ||
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Darkong
United Kingdom418 Posts
On March 01 2011 23:43 froidcoeur wrote: the bible classifies homosexuality as unnatural. in contemporary times it has been interpreted to mean immoral. but i believe there's logic behind it. homosexuality (1) is non-reproductive and (2) is more unhygienic, the rear passage being, well, generally not so clean. and before anyone starts classifying christians as bigots, and the bible as discriminatory, i would add that the bible tells me to love my neighbour too. that includes gays and bis bis, well, insofar as you are attracted to the same sex, my views on homosexuality apply. Hygeine wasn't exactly a priority for anyone back in those days when germs weren't known about (people thought they were demons or some such). And why does christianity have a problem with people being gay? Christians believe that God is omniscient and omnipresent, has a plan for everything and everything happens for his will, but homosexuality is not a choice any more than your eye colour is, so if there is a God he/she/it made me gay, so why do some christians (amongst other religious people) have a problem with that? Do they think they know better than God on this issue? | ||
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Shiragaku
Hong Kong4308 Posts
On March 02 2011 01:13 Darkong wrote: Hygeine wasn't exactly a priority for anyone back in those days when germs weren't known about (people thought they were demons or some such). And why does christianity have a problem with people being gay? Christians believe that God is omniscient and omnipresent, has a plan for everything and everything happens for his will, but homosexuality is not a choice any more than your eye colour is, so if there is a God he/she/it made me gay, so why do some christians (amongst other religious people) have a problem with that? Do they think they know better than God on this issue? Hygiene was a pretty big issue back in the day. Because people were so fucking stupid, God told the Israelites to take a shit outside the camp, and after you are done shitting, BURY THE SHIT!! | ||
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adrenaLinG
Canada676 Posts
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Darkong
United Kingdom418 Posts
On March 02 2011 01:15 Shiragaku wrote: Hygiene was a pretty big issue back in the day. Because people were so fucking stupid, God told the Israelites to take a shit outside the camp, and after you are done shitting, BURY THE SHIT!! Would have helped a bit more if he'd just put the germ theory in the bible rather than the guidelines on who you can take as slaves and how to treat them, much better way to use ink in my opinion. | ||
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Shiragaku
Hong Kong4308 Posts
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froidcoeur
Singapore13 Posts
i'd really love to respond to all the people here - but i don't think i'll make any more christian references in this thread; i didn't know i'd get such a strong reaction. i certainly don't want to get banned from the website i read most, i rely on teamliquid for my sc2 strategies and just to clarify - i'm not a gay hater. in fact i supported the de-criminalisation of homosexual sex where i come from. peace out guys, i'm just a silent observer from now on. | ||
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