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On July 27 2010 09:06 Miss_Cleo wrote:
I run about 2.3 - 2.5 miles 5 times a week, and I'm starting to feel pain on my left knee. I also hit the gym for about an hour before I run. Any tips on recovering and reducing knee/joint pain? I ice my knee after I run and apply bengay, but it's not helping much. I'm starting to get discouraged, I love running but it's really beating up my body and ANY tips would be useful.
I run on paved road and I have good Nike running shoes.
Are you doing squats or anything putting strain on your knees? If you are doing squats, I believe you shouldn't be bending your legs past 90 degrees.
Otherwise, follow the previous poster's advice of no more than 10% increase in mileage per week and stay on soft surfaces.
Also, check if you have flat feet. Wet Foot Test
For some people, if your arch is excessively low/high, it can affect the way pressure is distributed through your leg as you run and can be the cause of your knee pain.
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I used to have pain in my feet as well until I started deadlifting and squatting barefoot as well as running on the balls of my feet
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On July 27 2010 09:56 dirtyshoes wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2010 09:06 Miss_Cleo wrote:
I run about 2.3 - 2.5 miles 5 times a week, and I'm starting to feel pain on my left knee. I also hit the gym for about an hour before I run. Any tips on recovering and reducing knee/joint pain? I ice my knee after I run and apply bengay, but it's not helping much. I'm starting to get discouraged, I love running but it's really beating up my body and ANY tips would be useful.
I run on paved road and I have good Nike running shoes. Are you doing squats or anything putting strain on your knees? If you are doing squats, I believe you shouldn't be bending your legs past 90 degrees.
There's nothing wrong with squatting past parallel.
I'm so sure about this that I'll let someone who's fucking epic like eshlow go into detail, but check out a few quick links like http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=118920551.
From what I remember, it actually puts more stress on your knees stopping at parallel than it does going further. People who say that your knees should never pass your toes, pay attention next time you climb a set of stairs :p
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On July 26 2010 07:28 StimD wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2010 07:41 eshlow wrote:On July 10 2010 05:44 FyRe_DragOn wrote:
ive been having a bit of a form problem when doing squats. I taped myself and im actually leaning towards my right side a bit when @ the bottom of the squat, and when going up, but at the top it stabilizes. Does anyone know how to fix this problem? Could be a mobility issue. Check out the 'squat rx' vids on youtube and see if they help you. On July 09 2010 23:03 StimD wrote:
Do you guys have any experiences with rounded shoulders? My left shoulder suddently started hurting a few weeks ago, and my physiotherapist told me that I've over-focused on pressing exercises in my training regime. Can't really understand that, I've been doing a lot of pull ups the last few years. Anyway, he told me to exclude my chest training for a while and focus more on pulling exercises. He further gave me a stretching exercise that he told me to do as many times a day as I felt like, and also recommended me a rotator cuff exercise.
Should I just neglect my chest (gasp) and do more pulling exercises until it gets better? Which exercises would you recommend? I'm currently doing a lot of face-pulls, seated rowing and incline lateral raises. Any suggestions? THe problem with VERTICAL pulling exercises is that they mainly use yoru shoulders adductors -- lats, teres major, lats -- these are ALL internal rotators of the shoulder and make your posture suck more as your shoulders roll forward. Combine that with pressing and there you go..... shoulder imbalance/poor posture pain Only horizontal pulling exercises are more effective in balancing things out. Strict regiment of vertical pulling exercises doesn't really work by itself. Having been on BB.com a lot back in the day I developed a response for this that works.... if you do most of that stuff: Best thing you can do is focus on posture. Hold your shoulders back, retract the scapulas, chest up and out, chin tucked back. Do this all the time. Yes, you will be sore but your body will adapt correctly within a week most of the time. 1. Drop all pressing movements 2. Do lots of horizontal pulling (rowing.... except NOT upright rows) 3. Strengthen ONLY your external rotators... ignore internal rotators 4. foam roll thoracic spine + mobility work (http://www.marksdailyapple.com/how-to-improve-thoracic-spine-mobility/ ) 5. Ice after any exercise/swelling 6. Band dislocates & wall slides (youtube these) 7. Lots of massage/tennis balling/etc. from the scapulae to the anterior shoulders. 8. Stretch chest and lats. A LOT. Use a basketball to roll out your chest, especially the pec minor as well. If you can't get it well use your hands to massage. 9. Fish oil for anti-inflammatory, joint supps if you need any (sections 4&5 describe these here): http://www.eatmoveimprove.com/2009/08/on-tendonitis/9. Do nerve glides wfs 10. Deep tissue massage to everything in your upper body. And by everything I mean EVERYTHING. Down into the forearms as well. 11. Correct your posture!!!!!!! Also, diesel crew rehab vid is a good one for restrengthening your shoulders once you start getting back into it: Here's a good article series about posture as well (Neanderthal No More): http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459379http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459206http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=462481http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=472224http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=535872 Thank you for this informative post. I've been trying to follow up on your advices, although I haven't been able to do them all. I have a few questions though: 1. Could you provide me with a more specific program? Like how many times a week should I do the wall slides and for how many reps/sets. 2. What will be best on the horizontal rows? Few or many reps? 3. Are deadlifts O.K? No pain, but haven't really lifted heavy after my shoulder started hurting. 4. As a poor student I can't really afford going to massage institues on a weekly basis. Is this very important? 5. After a swimming session my shoulder joints feel much better, but I've heard swimmers often get problematic shoulders. Should I swim or not? 6. You say I should stretch a lot, what does that mean? 5x a day? Any good stretches for the lats? How long should I hold? 7. You say I should use a bball to stretch out my chest. How exactly? 8. In your opinion, why is it that the only shoulder that hurts is my left? I'm right-handed, but left side is overdeveloped for some reason. Especially the left pec. The left shoulder just feels tired. There are some popping sounds when I rotate it counter-clockwise as well. Is this some kind of inflammation?
1. Uhhh... it depends on how your body responds... genreally 2-3 sets of 15-25 reps 3-4x a week. For mobility work can be done almost everday if its helping
2. Many for now to build up endurance for posture. Fewer later for strength
3. Fine if no pain
4. Soft tissue work is very important. There's lots of stuff you can do for self massage though
5. If it helps, then do it
6. Youtube lat stretches. 30s couple times.. multiple a day if you can handle it. 4-5x a week
7. lie face down on it
8. It's likely a postural issue... may have something to do with labrum. I highly suggest you get it checked by a professional though....
Biggest thing is to constantly improve your posture. If something hurts don't do it. Check a week or two later to see if it helps.
Gotta get everything moving as much as possible without pain..
This is generalized and may or may not help becuaes I don't know your individual case. So don't expect any miracles.
On July 26 2010 11:41 RosaParksStoleMySeat wrote:
I had a hell of a workout today. While I was only doing 185 on squats, my form felt impeccable. I kept my chest up, my face angled to look 6' in front of me, and I was pushing off of my heels for the hip drive. I definitely felt that in my glutes today. Also, I did 6/4/4 on chin-ups with 15 pounds attached, which is a new record for me. Next week I'm going to start increasing the weight on chin-ups linearly to see where it takes me.
Quick question: Does anybody else get hip flexor soreness from squatting? On my first two warmup sets today (the bar only ones) my hip flexors hurt pretty bad, but that went away once I started adding weight. Does this muscle soreness indicate poor squat form?
No, hip flexors are used extensively, especially if you have poor hamstring flexibility to keep your lumbar curve during squats/DL/etc.
However, theoretically you shouldnt have to use them except as stabilizers. So stretch out those hammies more.
On July 27 2010 05:19 travis wrote:
my wrist has set me back months and months
it sucks so bad
even now after being super patient and rehabilitation it's still considerably weaker than it was
and after a half-decent workout i need at least 2 rest days before i can do any push again
oh well at least i can do any push now
You do it with hands pointed forward?
I tend to like hands sideways or backwards because its less strain on the wrist. It will set you back a progression possibly though but it keeps your wrists injury free.
You still need to do good mobility/prehab work though.
On July 27 2010 09:07 Energies wrote:
Speaking of pullups, are there any opinions of the kipping or the crossfit style pullup vs the traditional pullup? I have a pullup bar at home and I tried the kipping one, I managed to squeeze 30% more reps out of each set, and I felt just as fatigued afterwards.
Currently I'm training for strength and fitness and not so much physique.
Kippings are more metabolic in nature... if you're doing a workout where you want to tax cardiovascular you can add them in such as circuits or something. If not, don't bother.
On July 27 2010 09:06 Miss_Cleo wrote:
I run about 2.3 - 2.5 miles 5 times a week, and I'm starting to feel pain on my left knee. I also hit the gym for about an hour before I run. Any tips on recovering and reducing knee/joint pain? I ice my knee after I run and apply bengay, but it's not helping much. I'm starting to get discouraged, I love running but it's really beating up my body and ANY tips would be useful.
I run on paved road and I have good Nike running shoes.
First, read this:
http://www.eatmoveimprove.com/2009/11/shoes-sitting-and-lower-body-dysfunctions/
Second, back off and let your body heal. If you work through pain you will have your tissues degenerate and you will likely injure yourself to the point where you will have to go to physical therapy or possibly surgery later on.
Pain = your body telling you to stop.
So you had better damn well listen. This is for everyone else in this thread.
You push through, your recovery time pretty much increases 3-5x the amount it would've been had you just backed off and recovered.
Plus you likely have to pay money to get it checked, and possibly for physical threapy and all that stuff.
Pain = bad
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On July 27 2010 12:17 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2010 09:56 dirtyshoes wrote:On July 27 2010 09:06 Miss_Cleo wrote:
I run about 2.3 - 2.5 miles 5 times a week, and I'm starting to feel pain on my left knee. I also hit the gym for about an hour before I run. Any tips on recovering and reducing knee/joint pain? I ice my knee after I run and apply bengay, but it's not helping much. I'm starting to get discouraged, I love running but it's really beating up my body and ANY tips would be useful.
I run on paved road and I have good Nike running shoes. Are you doing squats or anything putting strain on your knees? If you are doing squats, I believe you shouldn't be bending your legs past 90 degrees. There's nothing wrong with squatting past parallel. I'm so sure about this that I'll let someone who's fucking epic like eshlow go into detail, but check out a few quick links like http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=118920551. From what I remember, it actually puts more stress on your knees stopping at parallel than it does going further. People who say that your knees should never pass your toes, pay attention next time you climb a set of stairs :p
Squats to parallel and above use mostly quads.
Going as deep as possible -- below parallel -- extensively uses hamstrings which helps balance out the knees and keeps them healthy.
I don't feel like saying more than that really heh..
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anything for my back eshlow? 
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We're so lucky he doesn't charge us for advice. Thanks eshlow!
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On July 27 2010 09:33 decafchicken wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2010 09:06 Miss_Cleo wrote:
I run about 2.3 - 2.5 miles 5 times a week, and I'm starting to feel pain on my left knee. I also hit the gym for about an hour before I run. Any tips on recovering and reducing knee/joint pain? I ice my knee after I run and apply bengay, but it's not helping much. I'm starting to get discouraged, I love running but it's really beating up my body and ANY tips would be useful.
I run on paved road and I have good Nike running shoes. Try to run on a track or grass if you can its much easier on your joints, it helped with my shins . alsi have something weird with my back from deadlift. It's not pain per se it just feels really weird when I round my back instead of keeping it flat in my lower back.
Don't round your back ever,.. going into flexion during any of the spinal exercises can lead to strained muscles or herniated discs.
Read this for now:
http://www.eatmoveimprove.com/2010/02/so-you-hurt-your-lower-back/
there's some good mobility exercises described in the section that should help you out... but keeping good form (even if you have to drop the weight) is preferable and should keep you injury free
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On July 27 2010 09:55 Miss_Cleo wrote:
It's usually my knee or feet that gives out when I run. I feel like I have enough energy, will, and lungpower to plow out more miles, but I start feeling sharp pains in my leg joints. Ill take some of you guys' advice and start running on grass and dirt trails, but it's really hard to find them in the middle of Los Angeles. I hate driving in order to find a place to run, but if it helps me in the long run I'm up for it. If anyone lives around Mid-city Los Angeles and knows good running spots, please respond. I usually run at Pan Pacific Park by the Grove.
I loved running at Griffith Park when I was in Los Angeles. Tough trails with gorgeous views of the city. Most people in LA just hit the local gym though, as it's not worth driving for a run. As for the knee problems, I highly recommend cross training with a bike, especially if you feel you have the necessary cardiovascular capability.
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Ugh, I recently had a pretty severe hypoglycemic reaction when I raisin/fruit-binged after a workout. That was after a week of zero carbing (as an experiment and to lose weight). I'm such an idiot.
I had gone way too low-carb way too long. All in the name of good health and losing weight. When I initially started the paleo diet (lots of meat, nuts, fruit and veggies), I lost a lot of weight, looked much better, and got tons of positive feedback. When I stumbled upon PaNu, I went VLC and got really skinny (way too skinny, looking back). I became attached to that lean body frame and continuously tried to go very low carb + cut calories to re-achieve it. WTF was I thinking? I even considered fruit cheating, what the hell? It didn't even really work, because I'd inevitably overeat. I even got myself lifting weights during this period, which made things worse.
Trying to eat more carbs now, but my glucose tolerance is all fucked up after the hypoglycemic reaction.
Hopefully someone can learn from this, though there aren't too many low-carbers here. Eat whole, real foods in whatever amount and ratios you please. Listen to your body. Don't be afraid to cheat occasionally.
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Low carb is fine. You can't low cal any type of diet too long though otherwise it won't work and jack you up.
I know many people on low carb paleo for years who are doing well. The main problem you had isn't low carb.., it's obsessing about everything.
If you're going very low carb and trying to lose weight, you gotta cycle on periods of slight caloric deficit to regular eating. Once you reset your body via ghrelin and all that stuff generally eating to satiety works very well
Also based on your diet you probably didn't hjave enoguh healthy fats in there...
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On July 27 2010 15:04 eshlow wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2010 09:33 decafchicken wrote:On July 27 2010 09:06 Miss_Cleo wrote:
I run about 2.3 - 2.5 miles 5 times a week, and I'm starting to feel pain on my left knee. I also hit the gym for about an hour before I run. Any tips on recovering and reducing knee/joint pain? I ice my knee after I run and apply bengay, but it's not helping much. I'm starting to get discouraged, I love running but it's really beating up my body and ANY tips would be useful.
I run on paved road and I have good Nike running shoes. Try to run on a track or grass if you can its much easier on your joints, it helped with my shins . alsi have something weird with my back from deadlift. It's not pain per se it just feels really weird when I round my back instead of keeping it flat in my lower back. Don't round your back ever,.. going into flexion during any of the spinal exercises can lead to strained muscles or herniated discs. Read this for now: http://www.eatmoveimprove.com/2010/02/so-you-hurt-your-lower-back/there's some good mobility exercises described in the section that should help you out... but keeping good form (even if you have to drop the weight) is preferable and should keep you injury free
oh you misunderstood I always keep it flat during squats and deadlift I'm talking about when I go into flexion while I'm not lifting
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On July 27 2010 23:11 decafchicken wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2010 15:04 eshlow wrote:On July 27 2010 09:33 decafchicken wrote:On July 27 2010 09:06 Miss_Cleo wrote:
I run about 2.3 - 2.5 miles 5 times a week, and I'm starting to feel pain on my left knee. I also hit the gym for about an hour before I run. Any tips on recovering and reducing knee/joint pain? I ice my knee after I run and apply bengay, but it's not helping much. I'm starting to get discouraged, I love running but it's really beating up my body and ANY tips would be useful.
I run on paved road and I have good Nike running shoes. Try to run on a track or grass if you can its much easier on your joints, it helped with my shins . alsi have something weird with my back from deadlift. It's not pain per se it just feels really weird when I round my back instead of keeping it flat in my lower back. Don't round your back ever,.. going into flexion during any of the spinal exercises can lead to strained muscles or herniated discs. Read this for now: http://www.eatmoveimprove.com/2010/02/so-you-hurt-your-lower-back/there's some good mobility exercises described in the section that should help you out... but keeping good form (even if you have to drop the weight) is preferable and should keep you injury free oh you misunderstood I always keep it flat during squats and deadlift I'm talking about when I go into flexion while I'm not lifting
Ahhh.
Still, read and do the mobility exercises. See which ones help by loosening stuff up make your back feel better.. and which ones don't.
But yeah, try to stay out of flexion with teh low back in general even when not lifting. I've known people that have herniated discs from just bending over to tie a shoe.... obviously they had already done some damage with poor posture, bad lifting technique, etc. beforehand but you never know.
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On July 27 2010 21:49 eshlow wrote:
Low carb is fine. You can't low cal any type of diet too long though otherwise it won't work and jack you up.
I know many people on low carb paleo for years who are doing well. The main problem you had isn't low carb.., it's obsessing about everything.
If you're going very low carb and trying to lose weight, you gotta cycle on periods of slight caloric deficit to regular eating. Once you reset your body via ghrelin and all that stuff generally eating to satiety works very well
Also based on your diet you probably didn't hjave enoguh healthy fats in there...
Thanks. I ate lots of sat fat (coconut, cream, butter, pemmican, animal products). Like tons. I basically lived on fat.
Today, I had a lipid panel after about 6 months of eating like this, and my TC is now like 357, LDL 273, HDL 64, Trig 80!!
Previously, after 3 months on Cordain-style diet, my TC was 165, trigs like 46, LDL 101, HDL 53. Jesus. My weight is basically the same though.
I'm definitely going to start cutting out the fats and eating more carbs (veggies, fruits, starchy tubers -- though that could be difficult my recent carb problems). What do you think? How unhealthy is a cholesterol score like that? Any dietary recommendations for someone like me?
Thanks again eshlow.
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Russian Federation89 Posts
Def made a mistake a few days ago, 4 hours of soccer in 90 degree weather. Leg muscles hurting that I never even knew could hurt ^^. Plan on doing 2 hours tomorrow and more on Sunday for 3 hours.
My biggest problem with this is hydration. I've been exposed to different theories on this, and 1 caught my mind and I wanted to run it by you guys. Prior to the work out, increase an in take in sodium, and do not hydrate until after the work out (outside in high degree weather that is). Apparently this is supposed to actually make it easier to deal with the heat and thirst.
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On July 28 2010 10:59 opaque wrote:
Def made a mistake a few days ago, 4 hours of soccer in 90 degree weather. Leg muscles hurting that I never even knew could hurt ^^. Plan on doing 2 hours tomorrow and more on Sunday for 3 hours.
My biggest problem with this is hydration. I've been exposed to different theories on this, and 1 caught my mind and I wanted to run it by you guys. Prior to the work out, increase an in take in sodium, and do not hydrate until after the work out (outside in high degree weather that is). Apparently this is supposed to actually make it easier to deal with the heat and thirst.
Why dont u just hydrate before, during, and after the workout?
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On July 28 2010 10:59 opaque wrote:
Def made a mistake a few days ago, 4 hours of soccer in 90 degree weather. Leg muscles hurting that I never even knew could hurt ^^. Plan on doing 2 hours tomorrow and more on Sunday for 3 hours.
My biggest problem with this is hydration. I've been exposed to different theories on this, and 1 caught my mind and I wanted to run it by you guys. Prior to the work out, increase an in take in sodium, and do not hydrate until after the work out (outside in high degree weather that is). Apparently this is supposed to actually make it easier to deal with the heat and thirst.
just get yourself some coconut water.
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Strange thing about my workouts lately...
I start off the first set just fine. For example, on my bench today, I barely struggled to hit five reps with my new weight. However, once I got to my second set, I could only do 3-4. I try to take long rests (usually about two minutes between sets), but it doesn't seem to help much.
Obviously after a somewhat strenuous effort anybody would get tired, but I don't understand why there is such a significant difference between my first and second sets.
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On July 28 2010 10:33 shmay wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2010 21:49 eshlow wrote:
Low carb is fine. You can't low cal any type of diet too long though otherwise it won't work and jack you up.
I know many people on low carb paleo for years who are doing well. The main problem you had isn't low carb.., it's obsessing about everything.
If you're going very low carb and trying to lose weight, you gotta cycle on periods of slight caloric deficit to regular eating. Once you reset your body via ghrelin and all that stuff generally eating to satiety works very well
Also based on your diet you probably didn't hjave enoguh healthy fats in there... Thanks. I ate lots of sat fat (coconut, cream, butter, pemmican, animal products). Like tons. I basically lived on fat. Today, I had a lipid panel after about 6 months of eating like this, and my TC is now like 357, LDL 273, HDL 64, Trig 80!! Previously, after 3 months on Cordain-style diet, my TC was 165, trigs like 46, LDL 101, HDL 53. Jesus. My weight is basically the same though. I'm definitely going to start cutting out the fats and eating more carbs (veggies, fruits, starchy tubers -- though that could be difficult my recent carb problems). What do you think? How unhealthy is a cholesterol score like that? Any dietary recommendations for someone like me? Thanks again eshlow.
Cholesterol score means some things but it doesn't necessarily mean you're unhealthy. Serum cholesterol isn't correlated with dietary intake -- the liver makes most of it. If it's high there's a reason it's high which is usually for steroid production in the body or because vitamin D levels are low...
If you're not out int he sun much well there you go. LDL doesn't matter much if the particles are fluffy and big.... which just total LDL doesn't tell you. You'd need to get the detailed panel on that ifyou really want to know.
The fact that your HDL went down and trigs went up is a bit concerning though... were you really undereating that much? Stuff can fluctuate like that sometimes because of stress levels -- I would definitely hit up a more reasonable calorie number -- add moer veges if you can. Too much fruit isn't really a good thing
On July 28 2010 14:31 RosaParksStoleMySeat wrote:
Strange thing about my workouts lately...
I start off the first set just fine. For example, on my bench today, I barely struggled to hit five reps with my new weight. However, once I got to my second set, I could only do 3-4. I try to take long rests (usually about two minutes between sets), but it doesn't seem to help much.
Obviously after a somewhat strenuous effort anybody would get tired, but I don't understand why there is such a significant difference between my first and second sets.
You're supposed to take 4-5 minutes between sets if you're doing SS or any other heavy lifting.
Whyw ouldn't your body be tired when you're only allowing about ~75% of ATP regeneration between sets if you try to go again in 2 minutes..... It's gets up closer to 95%-99% with 4-5 minutes of rest... IIRC of course.. but it's something around this.
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Wouldn't that cause a typical SS workout to last well over an hour? I'm only taking 1-2min rest at the moment, if that. But then again I'm still not near my max yet on any of the lifts.
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EPT
