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On June 19 2010 10:53 Evilmonkey. wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2010 09:39 eshlow wrote:On June 19 2010 06:57 Evilmonkey. wrote:
Hey guys, I've really been tryin to hit the gym hard this summer and bulk up. Right now I'm doing a 4 day split with rest on wendnesday and the weekend. Since I'm not busy at all atm, I really would rather just go everyday, do I need the 3 days of rest? I'd really just like to take Sunday off and rather keep repeating the 4 day cycle, ie Mon- legs, Tues- back and biceps, Wed- chest and triceps, Thurs- shoulders, Fri- Legs, Sat- back and biceps, Sun- rest, repeat, etc. Is this alright or do I really need those extra days so my muscles can heal and rest? Thanks. Drop this routine and do Starting Strength (links located in OP). And yes, you need the rest... Hmmmm I'll have to check it out, what specifically do u think makes starting strength more effective than a typical 4 day split?
Everything. I did a 4 day split for a month or 6 weeks towards the end of school this semester and i've been doing a workout similar to 5x5/SS since then and i've put on more strength doing this than the 4 days split. I'm sure eshlow can give you a more scientifically based answer, but yeah.
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On June 19 2010 10:53 Evilmonkey. wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2010 09:39 eshlow wrote:On June 19 2010 06:57 Evilmonkey. wrote:
Hey guys, I've really been tryin to hit the gym hard this summer and bulk up. Right now I'm doing a 4 day split with rest on wendnesday and the weekend. Since I'm not busy at all atm, I really would rather just go everyday, do I need the 3 days of rest? I'd really just like to take Sunday off and rather keep repeating the 4 day cycle, ie Mon- legs, Tues- back and biceps, Wed- chest and triceps, Thurs- shoulders, Fri- Legs, Sat- back and biceps, Sun- rest, repeat, etc. Is this alright or do I really need those extra days so my muscles can heal and rest? Thanks. Drop this routine and do Starting Strength (links located in OP). And yes, you need the rest... Hmmmm I'll have to check it out, what specifically do u think makes starting strength more effective than a typical 4 day split?
because SS uses the main compound lifts like squats/deadlifts/press/bench press (you can add pull ups if you want) and its a full body workout. seriously, at the novice/beginner level compare the strength gains of guys who do the compound lifts to guys who do isolation and machine work. there is just no comparison.
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Goal: 165 lbs by end of summer
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Prior to stopping I was doing a variation of 5x5 the method and numbers I was using is irrelevant. But the movements were the main compounds, squats, bench, DL etc..
The progress was great, I was getting stronger in all lifts and I was gaining muscle, which got me curious. Is there room or reason for other lifts? Dumbbell bench, flys, curls, tricep extensions, calf raises and the myriad of other lifts? If my goal was say aesthetics rather than strength and power would I then change to a split routine with isolation exercises?
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On June 19 2010 13:18 Energies wrote:
Prior to stopping I was doing a variation of 5x5 the method and numbers I was using is irrelevant. But the movements were the main compounds, squats, bench, DL etc..
The progress was great, I was getting stronger in all lifts and I was gaining muscle, which got me curious. Is there room or reason for other lifts? Dumbbell bench, flys, curls, tricep extensions, calf raises and the myriad of other lifts? If my goal was say aesthetics rather than strength and power would I then change to a split routine with isolation exercises?
No, even if your goal was aesthetics ss with accessory work tailored for aesthetics would probably be better. Db bench is totally redundant since you already bb bench, but you could substitute it quite easily. There'd be nothing wrong with doing flys/curls/tricep extensions/calf raises/whatever if you just did them as accessory work after the ss workout. I think some guy named Kethnaab had a big long dissertation about modifying ss optimally for people who care about aesthetics. I believe he included lots of dips and curls.
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It's already been stated but you want full body work.
You have limited amount of recovery as a novice, so all your work should be big compound movements to stimulate the most muscles. Stimulating more muscles will lead to more stimulus for strength and hypertrophy which will rapidly improve your body composition over using isolation work.
As a novice or intermediate you should not try to train like the people who are at the higher echelons of whatever it is you're looking for. Bodybuilders use splits because they are already so adapted to training that they need to overload their muscles with lots of focused specific work,. and since they do this they need to split because they need the increased recovery time for their muscles. Similarly, elite athletes may use splits effectively because they are ALSO pracitcing for their sport, so they cannot do lots of compound lifts all of the time because it will eat into their recovery and decrease their ability to practice effectively.
Given the novice effect, and even intermediate level trainees the most effective way to train is full body work 3-4x a week. If you want me I can pull up studies showing the effectiveness of such protocol, but given all of the responses in this thread I hope you would implicitly trust that all of our given training experience that we are correct.
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I am training for a Marathon
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That's all the details you got for us there Challe?
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I definitely agree that the method works, I just kind help feel a little bit depressed that I probably wasted a year of training on split routines and tons of cardio because I didn't know any better, I can't even imagine how strong I'd be if I had started on SS.
What I meant regarding aesthetics vs strength/power though. Over the last couple of years I have seen the same people at my gym coming in, they are the typical gym douchebags curling in the squat rack, spending 40 minutes on the bench press, weird tricep exercises and overly complicated ab routines. But whatever aesthetics they are all going for, it has worked for them, they all have much bigger arms/shoulders/chests than I have.
I'm not saying that is what I am going for, I enjoy an overall 'strong'/lean look knowing I have the strength, but these guys have chosen to go for large arms/shoulders/chest and that is the look they have achieved (enormous chickens walking around the gym). I on the other hand am the complete opposite, my biggest muscle groups are my legs and back, followed by chest shoulders and arms.
It just seems that both are working, but achieving much different results.
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Im sure you can just fit in the lifts you want to do after you finish your workout.
btw thanks everyone for the help on fish oil
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On June 20 2010 12:39 Energies wrote:
I definitely agree that the method works, I just kind help feel a little bit depressed that I probably wasted a year of training on split routines and tons of cardio because I didn't know any better, I can't even imagine how strong I'd be if I had started on SS.
What I meant regarding aesthetics vs strength/power though. Over the last couple of years I have seen the same people at my gym coming in, they are the typical gym douchebags curling in the squat rack, spending 40 minutes on the bench press, weird tricep exercises and overly complicated ab routines. But whatever aesthetics they are all going for, it has worked for them, they all have much bigger arms/shoulders/chests than I have.
I'm not saying that is what I am going for, I enjoy an overall 'strong'/lean look knowing I have the strength, but these guys have chosen to go for large arms/shoulders/chest and that is the look they have achieved (enormous chickens walking around the gym). I on the other hand am the complete opposite, my biggest muscle groups are my legs and back, followed by chest shoulders and arms.
It just seems that both are working, but achieving much different results.
Do your core lifts as usual, then add some isolations at the end, on chest oriented days i'll usually throw a few supersets of skullcrushers/close grip bench at the end, and on back oriented days i'll do pullups or super sets of curls and rows.
Also, if anything i feel good when i see those chicken leg top heavy mother fuckers walking around the gym with their terrible posture because all they do is bench and biceps. I know i'm all around more powerful than them, will probably live healthier than them, and appeal to a wider variety of girls. My favorite complements are when girls notice my legs and back; trust me it doesnt go unnoticed.
Just got back from a rugby 7's tourney in chicago, both of the teams my group of guys entered went undefeated so we took 1 & 2. Scored 8 times in 4 games and totaled like 64 points rofl. Loving the power and speed increase i've noticed since spring.
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ive seen that people suggest milk as a good product to have when trying to bulk up but should i be going for semi skimmed, skimmed or full fat.
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If you want to bulk up you should be going with full fat milk. GOMAD supposedly works wonders when you want to gain weight.
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Because of my schedule I've given up on going to the gym three times a week. Once is okay, twice is really pushing it. However, that may not be such a bad thing. I seem to get better gains on longer sessions fewer times a week. Maybe I'm just getting old.
However, because of my regular workouts (all of which have been SS workouts), I've become much stronger and more flexible. A capoeira class is starting within walking distance of my home, and I have the confidence to sign up for it, knowing that I can handle it. The morning after my first class, I didn't ache at all, and I could go to the gym and do a full workout.
This really makes me feel great. Hitting the gym has given me the ability to pick up other fun activities which I wouldn't have been able to handle before. Of course, the extra strength and energy also makes a huge difference in my quality of life.
Starting to exercise and eat right has been one of the bext decisions of my life. I wish I had done so sooner.
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I don't know why but last week I was just overcome with this incredible desire to be physically fit. Maybe it's because I realized the jeans I wore, I no longer need a belt. Plus I've been reading articles on T-Nation and it just makes me want to do crazy ass shit™.
kainzero
Age: 26 || Height: 5'9" or m/cm || Weight: 180 lb.
Starting Date: 6/20/2010 || Goal Date: whenever
Training goals -- Bench 2 plates/Squat 3 plates/Deadlift 4 plates/Weighted Chins with 1 plate/One armed chins, be able to play basketball and not become dead tired when the score is 2-1.
Misc goals -- Hike Mt. Baldy
For the past month or so, I've been hiking at the local beach city. It's 5 miles and was a steady warmup to get me back in the weight room and to be more fit, especially these 2 sections with 300 ft of elevation gain in an 1/8th of a mile.
The most I've ever squatted for 5 reps was 185. I need to get back there. I worked my way back up to 155 today for the past week. For bench I seem to have this shoulder problem, so I've just been doing DB bench until I find a way to fix it. Not even close to doing 3 reps of neutral grip chins, so I've been doing rows and iso for the upper traps on the lat pulldown in the meantime. The most I ever Deadlifted was 365x1, but I need to retrain it since I struggled today at 225x5.
Today I hiked Parker Mesa, which was also 5 miles and has 700ft. of elevation gain. I came back, took a nap, and headed to the gym and I was so tired that I almost passed out on the bench. But I got through it and now I feel good. Time to hit the basketball court tomorrow and if my legs aren't too dead, I want to try running sprints... whenever I do them, my ass hurts like a mofo. I love it.
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Hello everyone,
I'd like to start this comment out by stating how great this thread has been and how much it has helped me get back into shape and I'm sure it has helped countless others. I recently have been relocated to Cairo, Egypt for work and although it is a relatively modern society the access to a local gym is very limited and by that I mean nearly impossible. Thus, I'll have to resort to working-out in my home. I know there are many knowledgeable people following this thread and was hoping to get some insightful comments on how I can maximize my time while working out at home. I have done some research, found variations of push-ups, sit-ups, etc. But thought it would be nice to get input from the tl community. Appreciate your responses. Thanks in advance.
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if you can't hit the gym you should try getting a pair of dumbbells. you can do a ton of exercises (upper and lower body) at home just with dumbbells alone. it's not ideal but it's something you can do once the pushups and situps become easy/boring.
but first of all, what do you hope to achieve by working out? strength? endurance? general fitness? once that's been addressed i'm sure the mainstays here can figure out a decent routine that you could follow.
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On June 20 2010 19:06 kainzero wrote:
I don't know why but last week I was just overcome with this incredible desire to be physically fit. Maybe it's because I realized the jeans I wore, I no longer need a belt. Plus I've been reading articles on T-Nation and it just makes me want to do crazy ass shit™.
kainzero
Age: 26 || Height: 5'9" or m/cm || Weight: 180 lb.
Starting Date: 6/20/2010 || Goal Date: whenever
Training goals -- Bench 2 plates/Squat 3 plates/Deadlift 4 plates/Weighted Chins with 1 plate/One armed chins, be able to play basketball and not become dead tired when the score is 2-1.
Misc goals -- Hike Mt. Baldy
For the past month or so, I've been hiking at the local beach city. It's 5 miles and was a steady warmup to get me back in the weight room and to be more fit, especially these 2 sections with 300 ft of elevation gain in an 1/8th of a mile.
The most I've ever squatted for 5 reps was 185. I need to get back there. I worked my way back up to 155 today for the past week. For bench I seem to have this shoulder problem, so I've just been doing DB bench until I find a way to fix it. Not even close to doing 3 reps of neutral grip chins, so I've been doing rows and iso for the upper traps on the lat pulldown in the meantime. The most I ever Deadlifted was 365x1, but I need to retrain it since I struggled today at 225x5.
Today I hiked Parker Mesa, which was also 5 miles and has 700ft. of elevation gain. I came back, took a nap, and headed to the gym and I was so tired that I almost passed out on the bench. But I got through it and now I feel good. Time to hit the basketball court tomorrow and if my legs aren't too dead, I want to try running sprints... whenever I do them, my ass hurts like a mofo. I love it.
you might want to try dips instead and see how that feels. i've read that dips are a great way of maintaining bench strength if you have a shoulder injury, which is something the bench press aggravates but the dips don't.
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On June 20 2010 20:00 Finance wrote:
Hello everyone,
I'd like to start this comment out by stating how great this thread has been and how much it has helped me get back into shape and I'm sure it has helped countless others. I recently have been relocated to Cairo, Egypt for work and although it is a relatively modern society the access to a local gym is very limited and by that I mean nearly impossible. Thus, I'll have to resort to working-out in my home. I know there are many knowledgeable people following this thread and was hoping to get some insightful comments on how I can maximize my time while working out at home. I have done some research, found variations of push-ups, sit-ups, etc. But thought it would be nice to get input from the tl community. Appreciate your responses. Thanks in advance.
This may help you if you want to continue training strength:
http://www.eatmoveimprove.com/2010/03/the-fundamentals-of-bodyweight-strength-training
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kainzero:
what's the shoulder problem?
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EPT
