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On April 07 2010 09:05 sob3k wrote: Anyone here actually gone through a one-arm pullup progression successfully? I've been working one them for fucking forever and I'm really close, just having a hard time with the last little bit. It would be great to hear someones "how I did it" story.
That is unless you are one of those 100lb people who just found out they could do them one day. Fuck you lol.
no haven't at all and it seems like 1 arm pull is harder than 1 arm chin rite?
anyways I will be there one day just work consistently and try hard
eshlow could do em and I'd bet he still can
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On April 08 2010 01:49 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2010 09:05 sob3k wrote: Anyone here actually gone through a one-arm pullup progression successfully? I've been working one them for fucking forever and I'm really close, just having a hard time with the last little bit. It would be great to hear someones "how I did it" story.
That is unless you are one of those 100lb people who just found out they could do them one day. Fuck you lol. no haven't at all and it seems like 1 arm pull is harder than 1 arm chin rite? anyways I will be there one day just work consistently and try hard eshlow could do em and I'd bet he still can
yeah, they are harder but infinitely more useful (I'm a rock climber). I've recently just been doing a ton of super offset pullups only assisted with my pinky on the smallest ledge of a hangboard.....sooooo close, but I still cant pull off the real thing. Its definitely an extremely tough skill for me, although I have known people who just "discovered" they could do them after getting up to 25 normal reps of pullups (there is no justice in this world).
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On April 08 2010 03:27 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 01:49 travis wrote:On April 07 2010 09:05 sob3k wrote: Anyone here actually gone through a one-arm pullup progression successfully? I've been working one them for fucking forever and I'm really close, just having a hard time with the last little bit. It would be great to hear someones "how I did it" story.
That is unless you are one of those 100lb people who just found out they could do them one day. Fuck you lol. no haven't at all and it seems like 1 arm pull is harder than 1 arm chin rite? anyways I will be there one day just work consistently and try hard eshlow could do em and I'd bet he still can yeah, they are harder but infinitely more useful (I'm a rock climber). I've recently just been doing a ton of super offset pullups only assisted with my pinky on the smallest ledge of a hangboard.....sooooo close, but I still cant pull off the real thing. Its definitely an extremely tough skill for me, although I have known people who just "discovered" they could do them after getting up to 25 normal reps of pullups (there is no justice in this world).
i love climbing bouldering really don't like hassling with harnesses and whatnot and i want to try to minimize risking my life haha
what do you climb and what hangboard do u use 
imo, from my own experimentation, it feels like any assistance at all, even a pinky on a tiny tiny ledge, is quite a lot of help for 1 arm pull
do u often train 1 arm negatives?
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On April 07 2010 20:36 Bebop07 wrote: Hey everyone. I'm starting to eat a lot more and work out, and I'm really used to eating small meals and not a lot of protein. And by small meals I mean..really not even meals, just snacking. But now that I'm eating big, full meals I'm like..passing out/crashing afterwards for a good 10-30 minutes. Just wondering if this is normal or will go away..isnt much fun.
If you have a lot of carbs it will raise your blood glucose. Raising glucose increases insulin release which supercompenstates and drops blood sugar down low. This will cause you to crash.
Try eating less carbs, and more healthy fats.
On April 08 2010 01:48 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2010 08:50 eshlow wrote:On April 06 2010 13:06 travis wrote: are german hangs as easy to do as they look or is it possible i will screw that up and hurt myself Basically shoulder stretching. If you're worried I would put the rings at chest height and then go over and let yourself sink down. If it hurts too much you can lessen the pressure by using your feet to push up some. As you get used to the deep stretch you will be able to use your feet less and less. well I am using a bar and i can't change it's height but i put somethin o nthe ground i could move my feet onto and it was a good idea lol I think I woulda had to let go and prolly fell and hurt myself if I hadn't anyways eshlow i wanna ask u about my current routine here it is: warmup (some dynamic stretching, pushups, oblique crunches, hindu squats - like to get nice and hot) then 60s of FL work then some 1arm chin work then 60s of planche work then a pressing exercizes (this time it was a dips variant) then I did german hang x2 and some bridging then I worked on manna, i wanted to do 60s of work, but I only did a middle split hold for 5-10 sec x3, is that good enough? then I did 2 10sec pike compressions, and I gotta say - those are a bitch and yet I still hate stretching my hamstrings the most out of them anyways is that well programmed or is there a better way for me to do this? oh yeah and one other question - for working on manna I can't even put my hands backwards at all, the farthest I can turn them while they are behind my legs is perpindicular to the direction my legs are pointing how should I go about developing that type of wrist flexibility
If you want to save a bit of time you can alternate sets of front lever and planche and reduce the rest time a bit. Overall that works though.
I would do german hangs and the compression stuff in combination with the manna work if it doesn't tire you out.
So do sequences of:
~Compression/hamstring stretching ~german hangs ~manna work
Otherwise, it's fine.
Start stretching your wrists in your warmup and cooldown. Both ways. Make sure you do wrist prehab like wrist pushups and/or rice bucket if they are weak too.
On April 07 2010 09:05 sob3k wrote: Anyone here actually gone through a one-arm pullup progression successfully? I've been working one them for fucking forever and I'm really close, just having a hard time with the last little bit. It would be great to hear someones "how I did it" story.
That is unless you are one of those 100lb people who just found out they could do them one day. Fuck you lol.
From what I experienced negatives/eccentrics should make up about 50% of the work, weighted progressions can be about 25% and the other can be assisted variations and/or isometric work. That tends to work well.
For OAP/OAC negatives once you can do about 3-5 reps of 7-10s lowers consecutively you can likely do one deadhang. That's the general "area" of eccentric work that should allow you the strength to do the movement. I used to usually do 2-3 sets of that kind of work for all of the pulling in my workout.
OAP is a bit harder than OAC. Never tried OAP. I worked myself up to 4.5 and 4 OAC on the R and L respectively.
Right now I can probably do about 2-3 when fresh I'd estimate.
FWIW, this is some of the stuff I've worked on in the past ~4-4.5 years of training (starting from scratch): http://www.youtube.com/user/eshlow I haven't gotten vids of straddle planche and other stuff like that unfortunately...
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eshlow, your OAC video is completely sick, as well as your manna. i aspire to one day be a badass like you. that is all.
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On April 08 2010 04:03 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 03:27 sob3k wrote:On April 08 2010 01:49 travis wrote:On April 07 2010 09:05 sob3k wrote: Anyone here actually gone through a one-arm pullup progression successfully? I've been working one them for fucking forever and I'm really close, just having a hard time with the last little bit. It would be great to hear someones "how I did it" story.
That is unless you are one of those 100lb people who just found out they could do them one day. Fuck you lol. no haven't at all and it seems like 1 arm pull is harder than 1 arm chin rite? anyways I will be there one day just work consistently and try hard eshlow could do em and I'd bet he still can yeah, they are harder but infinitely more useful (I'm a rock climber). I've recently just been doing a ton of super offset pullups only assisted with my pinky on the smallest ledge of a hangboard.....sooooo close, but I still cant pull off the real thing. Its definitely an extremely tough skill for me, although I have known people who just "discovered" they could do them after getting up to 25 normal reps of pullups (there is no justice in this world). i love climbing bouldering really don't like hassling with harnesses and whatnot and i want to try to minimize risking my life haha what do you climb and what hangboard do u use  imo, from my own experimentation, it feels like any assistance at all, even a pinky on a tiny tiny ledge, is quite a lot of help for 1 arm pull do u often train 1 arm negatives?
Yeah, me too, been climbing now for about 2 years, before that i was a hardcore swimmer. Currently I'm solidly at V7 range, which is pretty frustrating because I've been stuck here for like 8months due to consecutive pulley injuries on my right and then left hands. Gotta just keep on going though. I have a Metolious Simulator board put up in my apartment.
About the assisted offsets, yeah, I have even moved past that, I now take a small battery and stuff it in the tiniest crimper, which leaves about 1/6 of an inch of sloping ledge for my pinky. It cant possibly be more than 5 lbs of pull. I used to do a lot of negatives at my old house on my bar (especially after I hyperextended my right elbow , but now I don't have very much headroom above the hangboard, which makes them very awkward.
@eschlow
Nice, those 10 L muscle ups are SUPER useful and something I'd love to work on if I had more consistent bar access. Watching your videos made me think of something else though, the front lever, its another skill I want to try. As a gymnast i'm sure you eat that shit for breakfast, any advice on a progression?
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On April 08 2010 18:23 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 04:03 travis wrote:On April 08 2010 03:27 sob3k wrote:On April 08 2010 01:49 travis wrote:On April 07 2010 09:05 sob3k wrote: Anyone here actually gone through a one-arm pullup progression successfully? I've been working one them for fucking forever and I'm really close, just having a hard time with the last little bit. It would be great to hear someones "how I did it" story.
That is unless you are one of those 100lb people who just found out they could do them one day. Fuck you lol. no haven't at all and it seems like 1 arm pull is harder than 1 arm chin rite? anyways I will be there one day just work consistently and try hard eshlow could do em and I'd bet he still can yeah, they are harder but infinitely more useful (I'm a rock climber). I've recently just been doing a ton of super offset pullups only assisted with my pinky on the smallest ledge of a hangboard.....sooooo close, but I still cant pull off the real thing. Its definitely an extremely tough skill for me, although I have known people who just "discovered" they could do them after getting up to 25 normal reps of pullups (there is no justice in this world). i love climbing bouldering really don't like hassling with harnesses and whatnot and i want to try to minimize risking my life haha what do you climb and what hangboard do u use  imo, from my own experimentation, it feels like any assistance at all, even a pinky on a tiny tiny ledge, is quite a lot of help for 1 arm pull do u often train 1 arm negatives? Yeah, me too, been climbing now for about 2 years, before that i was a hardcore swimmer. Currently I'm solidly at V7 range, which is pretty frustrating because I've been stuck here for like 8months due to consecutive pulley injuries on my right and then left hands. Gotta just keep on going though. I have a Metolious Simulator board put up in my apartment.
nice thats what i used when i was training my grip until it came off the wall and broke on my face when i fell still have a scar inside my mouth lol
v7 is real good much higher than I can climb I am probably more at the v4/v5 range
About the assisted offsets, yeah, I have even moved past that, I now take a small battery and stuff it in the tiniest crimper, which leaves about 1/6 of an inch of sloping ledge for my pinky. It cant possibly be more than 5 lbs of pull. I used to do a lot of negatives at my old house on my bar (especially after I hyperextended my right elbow  , but now I don't have very much headroom above the hangboard, which makes them very awkward.
another possibility u could try that I have read about is using a pulley system (rope around u, 2-5lb weight on the other side of bar... oh i guess u use a hangboard but u could prolly still find a way to do the basic idea). while using a ledge might only be like 5lbs of pull as u say, it can do a ton to help keep ur body from twisting which is a pretty big assist isn't it?
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Netherlands4511 Posts
Eshlow has sik strenght..wow lol!
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On April 08 2010 18:23 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 04:03 travis wrote:On April 08 2010 03:27 sob3k wrote:On April 08 2010 01:49 travis wrote:On April 07 2010 09:05 sob3k wrote: Anyone here actually gone through a one-arm pullup progression successfully? I've been working one them for fucking forever and I'm really close, just having a hard time with the last little bit. It would be great to hear someones "how I did it" story.
That is unless you are one of those 100lb people who just found out they could do them one day. Fuck you lol. no haven't at all and it seems like 1 arm pull is harder than 1 arm chin rite? anyways I will be there one day just work consistently and try hard eshlow could do em and I'd bet he still can yeah, they are harder but infinitely more useful (I'm a rock climber). I've recently just been doing a ton of super offset pullups only assisted with my pinky on the smallest ledge of a hangboard.....sooooo close, but I still cant pull off the real thing. Its definitely an extremely tough skill for me, although I have known people who just "discovered" they could do them after getting up to 25 normal reps of pullups (there is no justice in this world). i love climbing bouldering really don't like hassling with harnesses and whatnot and i want to try to minimize risking my life haha what do you climb and what hangboard do u use  imo, from my own experimentation, it feels like any assistance at all, even a pinky on a tiny tiny ledge, is quite a lot of help for 1 arm pull do u often train 1 arm negatives? Yeah, me too, been climbing now for about 2 years, before that i was a hardcore swimmer. Currently I'm solidly at V7 range, which is pretty frustrating because I've been stuck here for like 8months due to consecutive pulley injuries on my right and then left hands. Gotta just keep on going though. I have a Metolious Simulator board put up in my apartment. About the assisted offsets, yeah, I have even moved past that, I now take a small battery and stuff it in the tiniest crimper, which leaves about 1/6 of an inch of sloping ledge for my pinky. It cant possibly be more than 5 lbs of pull. I used to do a lot of negatives at my old house on my bar (especially after I hyperextended my right elbow  , but now I don't have very much headroom above the hangboard, which makes them very awkward. @eschlow Nice, those 10 L muscle ups are SUPER useful and something I'd love to work on if I had more consistent bar access. Watching your videos made me think of something else though, the front lever, its another skill I want to try. As a gymnast i'm sure you eat that shit for breakfast, any advice on a progression?
How close are you? If you're at straddle front lever ability you can probably get it within a couple months by doing a program with ~50% eccentrics, 25% isometrics and then some various pulling work on the side.
The eccentric I really like is inverted hang 7-10s eccentric through front lever position to hang controlled. Do 2 reps of that in a row... and 3 sets total. Very taxing.
BTW, thanks for the comments guys. It's really just consistent training though. A couple of the guys I work out with have been getting skills much faster than me so it's definitely possible to progress faster. I had to basically experiment with around to found out what worked well and what didn't. So you guys have the benefit of prior experience here. Just stay consistent with training and most of you can obtain a bunch of strength easily.
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On April 09 2010 08:42 eshlow wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 18:23 sob3k wrote:On April 08 2010 04:03 travis wrote:On April 08 2010 03:27 sob3k wrote:On April 08 2010 01:49 travis wrote:On April 07 2010 09:05 sob3k wrote: Anyone here actually gone through a one-arm pullup progression successfully? I've been working one them for fucking forever and I'm really close, just having a hard time with the last little bit. It would be great to hear someones "how I did it" story.
That is unless you are one of those 100lb people who just found out they could do them one day. Fuck you lol. no haven't at all and it seems like 1 arm pull is harder than 1 arm chin rite? anyways I will be there one day just work consistently and try hard eshlow could do em and I'd bet he still can yeah, they are harder but infinitely more useful (I'm a rock climber). I've recently just been doing a ton of super offset pullups only assisted with my pinky on the smallest ledge of a hangboard.....sooooo close, but I still cant pull off the real thing. Its definitely an extremely tough skill for me, although I have known people who just "discovered" they could do them after getting up to 25 normal reps of pullups (there is no justice in this world). i love climbing bouldering really don't like hassling with harnesses and whatnot and i want to try to minimize risking my life haha what do you climb and what hangboard do u use  imo, from my own experimentation, it feels like any assistance at all, even a pinky on a tiny tiny ledge, is quite a lot of help for 1 arm pull do u often train 1 arm negatives? Yeah, me too, been climbing now for about 2 years, before that i was a hardcore swimmer. Currently I'm solidly at V7 range, which is pretty frustrating because I've been stuck here for like 8months due to consecutive pulley injuries on my right and then left hands. Gotta just keep on going though. I have a Metolious Simulator board put up in my apartment. About the assisted offsets, yeah, I have even moved past that, I now take a small battery and stuff it in the tiniest crimper, which leaves about 1/6 of an inch of sloping ledge for my pinky. It cant possibly be more than 5 lbs of pull. I used to do a lot of negatives at my old house on my bar (especially after I hyperextended my right elbow  , but now I don't have very much headroom above the hangboard, which makes them very awkward. @eschlow Nice, those 10 L muscle ups are SUPER useful and something I'd love to work on if I had more consistent bar access. Watching your videos made me think of something else though, the front lever, its another skill I want to try. As a gymnast i'm sure you eat that shit for breakfast, any advice on a progression? How close are you? If you're at straddle front lever ability you can probably get it within a couple months by doing a program with ~50% eccentrics, 25% isometrics and then some various pulling work on the side. The eccentric I really like is inverted hang 7-10s eccentric through front lever position to hang controlled. Do 2 reps of that in a row... and 3 sets total. Very taxing. BTW, thanks for the comments guys. It's really just consistent training though. A couple of the guys I work out with have been getting skills much faster than me so it's definitely possible to progress faster. I had to basically experiment with around to found out what worked well and what didn't. So you guys have the benefit of prior experience here.  Just stay consistent with training and most of you can obtain a bunch of strength easily. man you're a beast eshlow. i was gonna skip my workout today cause i haven't been getting enough sleep lately but then i saw your vids and i got motivated again lol.
btw what would the equivalent be with weighted dips at/near the end of linear progression?? i'm assuming 1-1.25x bw just like the bench??
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On April 09 2010 13:43 unknown.sam wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2010 08:42 eshlow wrote:On April 08 2010 18:23 sob3k wrote:On April 08 2010 04:03 travis wrote:On April 08 2010 03:27 sob3k wrote:On April 08 2010 01:49 travis wrote:On April 07 2010 09:05 sob3k wrote: Anyone here actually gone through a one-arm pullup progression successfully? I've been working one them for fucking forever and I'm really close, just having a hard time with the last little bit. It would be great to hear someones "how I did it" story.
That is unless you are one of those 100lb people who just found out they could do them one day. Fuck you lol. no haven't at all and it seems like 1 arm pull is harder than 1 arm chin rite? anyways I will be there one day just work consistently and try hard eshlow could do em and I'd bet he still can yeah, they are harder but infinitely more useful (I'm a rock climber). I've recently just been doing a ton of super offset pullups only assisted with my pinky on the smallest ledge of a hangboard.....sooooo close, but I still cant pull off the real thing. Its definitely an extremely tough skill for me, although I have known people who just "discovered" they could do them after getting up to 25 normal reps of pullups (there is no justice in this world). i love climbing bouldering really don't like hassling with harnesses and whatnot and i want to try to minimize risking my life haha what do you climb and what hangboard do u use  imo, from my own experimentation, it feels like any assistance at all, even a pinky on a tiny tiny ledge, is quite a lot of help for 1 arm pull do u often train 1 arm negatives? Yeah, me too, been climbing now for about 2 years, before that i was a hardcore swimmer. Currently I'm solidly at V7 range, which is pretty frustrating because I've been stuck here for like 8months due to consecutive pulley injuries on my right and then left hands. Gotta just keep on going though. I have a Metolious Simulator board put up in my apartment. About the assisted offsets, yeah, I have even moved past that, I now take a small battery and stuff it in the tiniest crimper, which leaves about 1/6 of an inch of sloping ledge for my pinky. It cant possibly be more than 5 lbs of pull. I used to do a lot of negatives at my old house on my bar (especially after I hyperextended my right elbow  , but now I don't have very much headroom above the hangboard, which makes them very awkward. @eschlow Nice, those 10 L muscle ups are SUPER useful and something I'd love to work on if I had more consistent bar access. Watching your videos made me think of something else though, the front lever, its another skill I want to try. As a gymnast i'm sure you eat that shit for breakfast, any advice on a progression? How close are you? If you're at straddle front lever ability you can probably get it within a couple months by doing a program with ~50% eccentrics, 25% isometrics and then some various pulling work on the side. The eccentric I really like is inverted hang 7-10s eccentric through front lever position to hang controlled. Do 2 reps of that in a row... and 3 sets total. Very taxing. BTW, thanks for the comments guys. It's really just consistent training though. A couple of the guys I work out with have been getting skills much faster than me so it's definitely possible to progress faster. I had to basically experiment with around to found out what worked well and what didn't. So you guys have the benefit of prior experience here.  Just stay consistent with training and most of you can obtain a bunch of strength easily. man you're a beast eshlow. i was gonna skip my workout today cause i haven't been getting enough sleep lately but then i saw your vids and i got motivated again lol. btw what would the equivalent be with weighted dips at/near the end of linear progression?? i'm assuming 1-1.25x bw just like the bench??
From what I've seen most people can add around +40-50% of bodyweight with dips and around +30-40% of bodyweight with pullups near the end of linear progression.
So including bodyweight that would be 1.4-1.5x and 1.3-1.4x bodyweight each respectively.
Note that dips are a version of decline bench, and decline bench is stronger than benching because you get more lats involvement (and lats are a huge muscle group).
What works well for starting strength (squats, bench, pclean, dl) also works well for dips and pullups. 3x5 trying to add +5 lbs per workout 2-3x a week if you want to do it that frequently.
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I have a nutritional question. Basically, I've been training for 1.5 years and put on a good amount of muscle, but I also put on a bunch of fat due to a poor diet and too much over eating, so since christmas I've been on a ketogenic diet and have had great results, I'm almost down to 10% bodyfat now. My question is though, after I'm back on a "normal" diet, I want to build as much muscle as possible but without gaining any fat. This seems hard to me as on days where I've worked out, I'm retardedly hungry and thereby I'm worried that I'll overeat. I was thinking to eat mainly proteins and aim to eat between 120-140grams a day, but is there any advice here for me (besides choosing healthy carbs and avoiding junkfood)? My own plan for was to eat whole grain wheat for breakfast, like 65% carbs, 7% fat, 14% protein and then a meal of rice and chicken or tuna or some other meat with sauce for lunch and dinner. are there any nutritional experts who could advise me here please? I'll be about 67-68kg at 10% bodyfat (~135-145lb)
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On April 10 2010 00:20 Sinep wrote: I have a nutritional question. Basically, I've been training for 1.5 years and put on a good amount of muscle, but I also put on a bunch of fat due to a poor diet and too much over eating, so since christmas I've been on a ketogenic diet and have had great results, I'm almost down to 10% bodyfat now. My question is though, after I'm back on a "normal" diet, I want to build as much muscle as possible but without gaining any fat. This seems hard to me as on days where I've worked out, I'm retardedly hungry and thereby I'm worried that I'll overeat. I was thinking to eat mainly proteins and aim to eat between 120-140grams a day, but is there any advice here for me (besides choosing healthy carbs and avoiding junkfood)? My own plan for was to eat whole grain wheat for breakfast, like 65% carbs, 7% fat, 14% protein and then a meal of rice and chicken or tuna or some other meat with sauce for lunch and dinner. are there any nutritional experts who could advise me here please? I'll be about 67-68kg at 10% bodyfat (~135-145lb)
Find out what your basal metabolic rate is.... then add some cals (depending on how active you are) and then add +500-600 on top of that for the amount you need to build some muscle mass when lifting heavy.
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How do I find out what my basal metabolic rate is? My activity varies from day to day, generally I'm pretty passive and only weight lift, so I was thinking to eat reduced calories on the days where I just sit around.
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On April 10 2010 01:30 Sinep wrote: How do I find out what my basal metabolic rate is? My activity varies from day to day, generally I'm pretty passive and only weight lift, so I was thinking to eat reduced calories on the days where I just sit around.
Find a good scale.
Keep track of everything you eat for a week.
If you maintain weight then divide total caloric intake by 7. That is approximately your basal metabolic rate (may vary a bit with activity).
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thanks for the advice, will try this, but have 4-5 weeks left of ketosis first >.<
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On April 10 2010 01:30 Sinep wrote: How do I find out what my basal metabolic rate is? My activity varies from day to day, generally I'm pretty passive and only weight lift, so I was thinking to eat reduced calories on the days where I just sit around.
66.5 + (13.75 x kg) + (5.003 x cm) - (6.775 x age)
There's your basal metabolic rate. Multiply with 1.2-2.0 depending on how active you are during a day. 2.0 is for a super athlete who works out 3 hours each day, if you sit around and only lift (heavy I assume) weights you would probably land at 1.5 if you do it 4 times/week and 1 hour at a time.
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On April 10 2010 19:49 Foucault wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2010 01:30 Sinep wrote: How do I find out what my basal metabolic rate is? My activity varies from day to day, generally I'm pretty passive and only weight lift, so I was thinking to eat reduced calories on the days where I just sit around. 66.5 + (13.75 x kg) + (5.003 x cm) - (6.775 x age) There's your basal metabolic rate. Multiply with 1.2-2.0 depending on how active you are during a day. 2.0 is for a super athlete who works out 3 hours each day, if you sit around and only lift (heavy I assume) weights you would probably land at 1.5 if you do it 4 times/week and 1 hour at a time.
I don't like these because depending on your individual body they can be off significantly.... like it says I'm around 2000-2200 but I'm really taking about 2500+ to maintain.
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that method will probably give me an average idea but like eshlow said, a person's metabolism is very individual. think the best method is to eat exactly a certain amount over say 2-3 weeks and see that weight is consistant.
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