• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 22:01
CET 04:01
KST 12:01
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !8Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win4Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15
StarCraft 2
General
When will we find out if there are more tournament ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump
Tourneys
Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1: Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress
Brood War
General
How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle screp: Command line app to parse SC rep files [BSL21] RO8 Bracket & Prediction Contest
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] WB SEMIFINALS - Saturday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO8 - Day 2 - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Mechabellum Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread PC Games Sales Thread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
The (Hidden) Drug Problem in…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1097 users

CiS In Shatters-Discussion

Forum Index > The Tavern
Post a Reply
Zeelah
Profile Joined September 2015
Ireland172 Posts
November 07 2015 21:50 GMT
#1
Hey,fairly new to LiquidDota and have only posted comments on tournament threads so I'm not sure if this is in the correct spot but anyway as the title says this post is just for discussion on the Cis scene at the moment.It feels as though its best teams are either out of contention or are rapidly losing momentum.

Empire-Literally hasn't accomplished a single note-worthy thing since Mars Dota League.

Virtus Pro-Some average performances all around since ti5,never falling to do okey but never reaching large success.Keep in mind they were directly invited to most of the lans they attended since ti5.

Vega-Excellent performance at Esl One and seemingly doing strong,but recent online defeats and draws are slowing their stride slightly.

Not so long ago before ti5,Cis teams were dominating Europe(with the exception of Secret of course) and even globally(Virtus Pro at Esl One Frankfurt,Empire at Mdl).Things have gone downhill since and seem if anything to be going further south.

These are my thoughts on the subject at the very least,I'd love to see some discussion from others on the subject !
♩♪♫ Stand In The Fire ♫♪♩
spudde123
Profile Joined February 2012
4814 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-07 22:23:36
November 07 2015 22:19 GMT
#2
I think the one big difference is really that Empire is doing worse than they were before. VP had a good TI placing and a few good tournaments in June, but in general they were never really dominant in the EU scene. They were near the top but behind Secret, c9 and sometimes Empire. Empire also actually struggled quite a bit against EU competition even when they were strong, their biggest results were over EG or Chinese teams, but they had a very bad matchup against c9 for example.

In the other EU teams talent has been spread out more I would say. Secret had several potential team captains, now they are all spread out to different teams and also Fly came back from coL to form OG. So there's definitely more competition now in terms of EUW teams. Whereas before if Secret and c9 were not competing then CIS teams were often clear favorites, now there's OG, TL, Alliance as teams that weren't really around at least at this strength.

So in conclusion I think EUW as a region got stronger with captains spreading to their own teams and picking up new talented players to join them, and Empire specifically is struggling more than before, making it look like CIS is weak. I'm not sure if one can really say that VP is all that weak, they seem pretty competitive to me but back to a similar level as they were before TI - a team that is good but not the best in the scene. Also I suppose NaVi looked better than many EU teams right before TI for example at Dreamleague, but then they started switching their lineup around again and haven't found their footing at all.
LemOn
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
United Kingdom8629 Posts
November 07 2015 22:34 GMT
#3
Empire and Na'Vi falling off the only difference here really? CIS teams never had more than a couple T1 teams.
Much is the father figure that I miss in my life. Go Daddy! DoC.LemOn, LemOn[5thF]
shizaep
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada2920 Posts
November 08 2015 18:39 GMT
#4
Empire has always been a low-tide/high-tide kind of team. They're either a top3 Euro team or they're doing kind of bad and shuffling around.

VP squad is still the best that org has ever had.

Vega won the last LAN they attended. Is dropping a couple on online bo3 really called a slump now?

Also, last year the whole T2 scene was all CIS: HR, PR being the notable "decent" teams while EUW was a wasteland. Now the tables have kind of turned with a lot of decent EUW t2 teams but the "lesser" CIS squads not doing as well.

I wouldn't say the scene is struggling. In fact, I'd rate it above the EU-West scene last winter. It's all due to the volatility of the Dota scene since teams have massive shuffles at least like twice a year. So one moment a region seems shit, 6 months later it's suddenly good, etc

Some decent EUW teams sprung up now (Liquid, OG, [A]) while the CIS scene didn't have as much development this particular post-TI shuffle
You mean I just write stuff here and other people can see it?
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
The PiG Daily
21:00
Best Games of Starcraft
SHIN vs ByuN
Reynor vs Classic
TBD vs herO
Maru vs SHIN
TBD vs Classic
PiGStarcraft697
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft697
PiLiPiLi 1
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 257
ZergMaN 256
NaDa 63
GoRush 36
Hm[arnc] 26
Mong 18
Icarus 6
Free 0
Dota 2
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
summit1g9828
Coldzera 1361
Other Games
JimRising 395
ViBE135
Trikslyr57
PPMD32
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1127
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 109
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22614
League of Legends
• Doublelift4309
Other Games
• Scarra1484
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
6h 59m
WardiTV 2025
7h 59m
Spirit vs Cure
Reynor vs MaxPax
SHIN vs TBD
Solar vs herO
Classic vs TBD
SC Evo League
9h 29m
Ladder Legends
15h 59m
BSL 21
16h 59m
Sziky vs Dewalt
eOnzErG vs Cross
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 6h
Ladder Legends
1d 13h
BSL 21
1d 16h
StRyKeR vs TBD
Bonyth vs TBD
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
[ Show More ]
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
ByuN vs Solar
Clem vs Classic
Cure vs herO
Reynor vs MaxPax
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS3
RSL Offline Finals
Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
CSL Season 19: Qualifier 1
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL Season 19: Qualifier 2
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.