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Please remember that while this thread is for QQ and venting about the game, racism is not tolerated here on LD. |
Yep. The only reason sniper's even used is because of his superior range. If the enemy can negate that advantage by blinking/stunning...Sniper's good as dead.
IF you really did get 14-1 using Sniper, it just means that your opponents were not very good.
The range and headshot is the tradeoff for being so weak on multiple fronts. I'd argue that sniper is a hard hero to play because of how hard it is to survive with him, but I wouldn't call it a terrible hero ( which is my point pretty much). I have laned with CK and qop middle using Sniper before in Dota 1 and it really depends on how well you can equilibrium the lane so it is close to your tower whilst grabbing as many cs as possible. Once you perfected the ability to play safe, you just swoop in shoot, grab creep kills, run and keep repeating that.
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On July 27 2012 16:12 BlindKill wrote:Show nested quote + Yep. The only reason sniper's even used is because of his superior range. If the enemy can negate that advantage by blinking/stunning...Sniper's good as dead.
IF you really did get 14-1 using Sniper, it just means that your opponents were not very good. The range and headshot is the tradeoff for being so weak on multiple fronts. I'd argue that sniper is a hard hero to play because of how hard it is to survive with him, but I wouldn't call it a terrible hero ( which is my point pretty much). I have laned with CK and qop middle using Sniper before in Dota 1 and it really depends on how well you can equilibrium the lane so it is close to your tower whilst grabbing as many cs as possible. Once you perfected the ability to play safe, you just swoop in shoot, grab creep kills, run and keep repeating that.
If you were arguing that Sniper is not a terrible hero, then I agree. Maintaining a good balance between safety and quick last hits is the key to a good early game.
Then again, Sniper is a soft hero that only becomes tough to bring down if he gets enough farm to go to the late game. Even during the mid-game, Sniper is very soft and tower dives from gankers/supports/semi-carries will be a swift death.
A CK is very easy to lane against because of his abysmal mana pool. A QoP, however, is a completely different story. Combined with her poison and Scream of Pain, Sniper can be harassed regardless of how far away he is.
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On July 27 2012 11:08 Quotidian wrote:
I absolutely know what I'm talking about, because I'm talking about my experience as a player of my particular level. If you think Valve isn't seriously concerned with the new player experience, then you're living in La-La Land. Just because I haven't autism'd my way to higher levels of "understanding," doesn't mean I can't spot a horribly designed mess of a game when I see one.
Not every game has to be super casual and n00b friendly, some games are MEANT to be hard to get good at. A ton of people, including new ones, see a lot of potential in a game which rewards knowledge and practice to a high degree. N00bs don't go into Dota 2 expecting Smite, they go in expecting Dota 2. It seems like you somehow missed out on that. It's not horribly designed, it's just not a game for you because you don't want to learn to play it, you just want to play it.
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On July 27 2012 16:55 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 11:08 Quotidian wrote:
I absolutely know what I'm talking about, because I'm talking about my experience as a player of my particular level. If you think Valve isn't seriously concerned with the new player experience, then you're living in La-La Land. Just because I haven't autism'd my way to higher levels of "understanding," doesn't mean I can't spot a horribly designed mess of a game when I see one. Not every game has to be super casual and n00b friendly, some games are MEANT to be hard to get good at. A ton of people, including new ones, see a lot of potential in a game which rewards knowledge and practice to a high degree. N00bs don't go into Dota 2 expecting Smite, they go in expecting Dota 2. It seems like you somehow missed out on that. It's not horribly designed, it's just not a game for you because you don't want to learn to play it, you just want to play it.
True..Another example of a hard as shit but rewarding game is Demon's Soul...Not made for the Casual Gamer but Extremely fun and addicting..
Back to the topic , Holy shit I'm Bad at visage...Plus his Familiars do 10Dmg @_@...I get raped all game by Keeper of the light and Drow Ranger..They get our middle Raxes and Then proceed to feed our Rikimaru..Who holds every lane by himself...It turns into an Endurance match and we keep defending until they push our mid again and get team wiped...5 Rage Quits and 2-3 Fuck Rikimaru comments and we Win :D
Edit - Illuminate and Frost Arrows combo is fucking Imbalanced.
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On July 27 2012 11:08 Quotidian wrote:
If I need to sink 1000 hours into the game to understand it "very well atm" then that just reaffirms my point: The game is way too complex for its own good, it has way too many obscure elements, and a traditional Valve game would've weeded that kind of garbage out because they usually understand that those kind of things makes a game worse. But in this case they've unfortunately decided to do a very straight port instead of taking the opportunity to improve upon a deeply flawed, but still weirdly popular game. Dota is basically the textbook example of "feature creep."
I absolutely know what I'm talking about, because I'm talking about my experience as a player of my particular level. If you think Valve isn't seriously concerned with the new player experience, then you're living in La-La Land. Just because I haven't autism'd my way to higher levels of "understanding," doesn't mean I can't spot a horribly designed mess of a game when I see one.
So just because you suck at a game, it means the game is a horribly designed mess? Get out of here. We don't need your arrogance, and we definitely don't need another case of what LoL did to Dota and what SC2 did to BW. I have nothing less than my deepest respect for Valve and Icefrog for deciding to port this game without catering to people like you and compromising the gameplay.
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On July 27 2012 18:03 writer22816 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 11:08 Quotidian wrote:
If I need to sink 1000 hours into the game to understand it "very well atm" then that just reaffirms my point: The game is way too complex for its own good, it has way too many obscure elements, and a traditional Valve game would've weeded that kind of garbage out because they usually understand that those kind of things makes a game worse. But in this case they've unfortunately decided to do a very straight port instead of taking the opportunity to improve upon a deeply flawed, but still weirdly popular game. Dota is basically the textbook example of "feature creep."
I absolutely know what I'm talking about, because I'm talking about my experience as a player of my particular level. If you think Valve isn't seriously concerned with the new player experience, then you're living in La-La Land. Just because I haven't autism'd my way to higher levels of "understanding," doesn't mean I can't spot a horribly designed mess of a game when I see one. So just because you suck at a game, it means the game is a horribly designed mess? Get out of here. We don't need your arrogance, and we definitely don't need another case of what LoL did to Dota and what SC2 did to BW. I have nothing less than my deepest respect for Valve and Icefrog for deciding to port this game without catering to people like you and compromising the gameplay.
the funny thing is to get "good" at most thing in real life require even more time compare to how fast you can learn to get decent in dota. Stop complaining and just have fun, u'll never get anywhere by complaining. Don't wish for an easier life, wish to be a stronger man.
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lol, so much beaten wife syndrome and complete lack of understanding of the game design process in this thread... QQ
User was temp banned for this post.
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On July 27 2012 18:03 writer22816 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 11:08 Quotidian wrote:
If I need to sink 1000 hours into the game to understand it "very well atm" then that just reaffirms my point: The game is way too complex for its own good, it has way too many obscure elements, and a traditional Valve game would've weeded that kind of garbage out because they usually understand that those kind of things makes a game worse. But in this case they've unfortunately decided to do a very straight port instead of taking the opportunity to improve upon a deeply flawed, but still weirdly popular game. Dota is basically the textbook example of "feature creep."
I absolutely know what I'm talking about, because I'm talking about my experience as a player of my particular level. If you think Valve isn't seriously concerned with the new player experience, then you're living in La-La Land. Just because I haven't autism'd my way to higher levels of "understanding," doesn't mean I can't spot a horribly designed mess of a game when I see one. So just because you suck at a game, it means the game is a horribly designed mess? Get out of here. We don't need your arrogance, and we definitely don't need another case of what LoL did to Dota and what SC2 did to BW. I have nothing less than my deepest respect for Valve and Icefrog for deciding to port this game without catering to people like you and compromising the gameplay.
I am just sick of sequels of adaptation of games catering toward the casuals. Yes, from a business standpoint, it does potentially mean more money. But it honestly potentially ruins games. To me (although I know it is forbidden to speak of it here), it is why I play this game instead of LoL. I have many friends to play LoL and they hate the idea of creep denying with a passion, all the while I love it since it gives a new variable to the game.
The complexity of the game is what makes it fun and enjoyable. Valve HAS improved upon an already amazing game. They added nice mechanics all the while adhering to what made the original good. Just looking at the streaming portion, the watching pro-matches from the game itself, and the tools given for replays shows how important it is to Valve. Reality is this, DotA 2 and games like Starcraft are not for everyone.
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On July 27 2012 18:15 Quotidian wrote:
lol, so much beaten wife syndrome and complete lack of understanding of the game design process in this thread... QQ
You don't have to have an understanding of the game design process to have fun playing it Oo
I played dota 1 for a while a few years ago and really enjoyed it. Then I switched to starcraft. My friends also introduced me to LoL, but it never captivated me. And now, since I got my beta key, I didn't play any other game.
So hate on it all you want, but other people are really enjoying the game.
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On July 27 2012 18:29 StoRm_res wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 18:15 Quotidian wrote:
lol, so much beaten wife syndrome and complete lack of understanding of the game design process in this thread... QQ You don't have to have an understanding of the game design process to have fun playing it Oo I played dota 1 for a while a few years ago and really enjoyed it. Then I switched to starcraft. My friends also introduced me to LoL, but it never captivated me. And now, since I got my beta key, I didn't play any other game. So hate on it all you want, but other people are really enjoying the game.
oh, I enjoy it too, despite everything
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On July 27 2012 18:15 Quotidian wrote:
lol, so much beaten wife syndrome and complete lack of understanding of the game design process in this thread... QQ
Please tell us more about this game design process and how you would improve upon Dota2 that Valve and Icefrog are obviously unqualified to do.
On-topic: Goddamn the SEA/Hong Kong region. Just my luck to get teammates who don't speak a lick of English and proceed to clash even when we're horribly out of position. Add on to the fact that said teammates enter the clash one by one therefore feeding the enemy team more.
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On July 27 2012 11:08 Quotidian wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 02:48 Erasme wrote:
I'm sorry, if you want to balance the game for the average joe, I don't even know wtf are you doing in teamliquid. this is a SC2 forum - why do you expect to find nothing but hardcore dota players here? Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 06:41 kellymilkies wrote:On July 27 2012 01:23 Quotidian wrote:On July 27 2012 01:11 Heh_ wrote:
Well I guess it sucks to be stuck in "elo hell". You suck, your allies suck and your opponents suck. At the level I'm playing, I don't experience whatever you're talking about. Me and my allies can coordinate ganks pretty well, have good map awareness, know how to stick as a team etc.
"Shitty heroes and shitty items" is what happens when you don't know how to play. Like shadow shaman building SnY (seen it before). Again, it's a consequence of being stuck in "elo hell".
TLDR: Don't blame the game if you're bad at it. even people like Purge talks about "bad heroes" (Sven for instance) so it's obviously something that's endemic to the game, not just to the level of play. TLDR: whatever.. get off your high horse On July 27 2012 00:58 Erasme wrote:
I see that you didn't try to communicate, because in most of my games, even if we're not an oiled machine, we're still (trying to) coordinate. If you don't like teamgames where you can chose your strategy, then you should stick to sc2.
It really feels like you're blaming the game because you lose tho. stop assuming. I have commends for "leadership" just like everyone else does. I'm not blaming the game because I lose.. I just as often stuck with the feeling that a lot of the games I win are because of adventitious team picks, so it goes both ways. It's obvious that people aren't interested in looking at dota at any deeper level here, so whatever, I'll let it go. There is no such thing as a bad hero, sure there are bad builds but most of this have to do with skill. I can go SF hex and heart even though im an agi hero if I am raping, because it doesnt matter when im already over level etc. (This is a very loose example, but yes I have bought basher on QOP before because I was already owning). opinions differ there, obviously. Even pro players Purge has interviewed has talked about certain heroes being bad, for instance Shadow Fiend as a lategame carry (I don't remember who said this, but it's on Purge's channel) So whatever.. opinions differ Show nested quote +You are being completely rude here by telling people to get off their high horse when after reading your posts you obviously don't understand the game very well atm and talking about it from a new comer point of view.
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I can empathize with how you feel but not with the way you reply aggressively to people who are trying to explain. Dont take it too personally!! oh stop... the people I was replying to "aggressively" were people who were aggressive towards me first. No one has been trying to explain anything. Posters like "Heh_" never wanted to be helpful, he wanted to assert his dota dominance (talk about a pointless quality to possess) and to put me down and to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. There has been overly presumptive posts suggesting that I always pick a carry and don't pick according to enemy team composition, when the opposite is actually the case -- just because that is apparently what new players do according to this guy. If I need to sink 1000 hours into the game to understand it "very well atm" then that just reaffirms my point: The game is way too complex for its own good, it has way too many obscure elements, and a traditional Valve game would've weeded that kind of garbage out because they usually understand that those kind of things makes a game worse. But in this case they've unfortunately decided to do a very straight port instead of taking the opportunity to improve upon a deeply flawed, but still weirdly popular game. Dota is basically the textbook example of "feature creep." I absolutely know what I'm talking about, because I'm talking about my experience as a player of my particular level. If you think Valve isn't seriously concerned with the new player experience, then you're living in La-La Land. Just because I haven't autism'd my way to higher levels of "understanding," doesn't mean I can't spot a horribly designed mess of a game when I see one.
Purge isn't a player whose opinions I respect. There's probably only a few dedicated English casters who've played at the top level of DotA/HoN and Purge certainly isn't one of them. There's opinions, and then there's stupid opinions.
SF is not a bad late game carry at all if you know what you are doing. He is much better than 3/4 of the pool at carrying and is one of the fastest farmers in the game. Sven is a great hero too, his only limitation is if the other team is smart and stocks up on Blademails and Ghost Scepters if given the opportunity. Honestly there's much much worse heroes around than SF and Sven and it's not like a good player doesn't know how to utilize them.
Yes, the game has a stupidly high learning curve but I think its a game where the higher you go the better the view is, just from the strategy perspective. Also there is no ELO hell in this game, it's a lot easier to take control of the game if you're a skill level above than your opponents -- that said you're not going to win every game.
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Worst 2 games of my life. For everyone is fucking QQing ingame lately and its doing my head in. I've always had mannered people, now I keep getting mocked for item choices and skill builds.... I went mid as TA got a bottle didn't hear the end of it for 30 minutes.... Played a game as Morph, had Kotl moaning about my farm when he was just waving every creep wave I was attempting to farm....
I hate people. Taking a break from this shitty game for a while. I keep bouncing from Normal to high as well in fucking stupid ways. Win a normal game, go to high win that back to normal with fucking retards who can't play.
I wish they never changed this MMR shit. I was in high before the patch had tonnes of great games with people of a similar skills, talkative and mannered. I haven't had a single fucking good game since they changed it to Normal, high and very high. Either my team destroys or the other one does.
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so many people need to relax when they play this game. was playing gyrocopter and roaming. bouncing from bot to mid (was scourge) and helping my mid win his lane. after 3 ganks or so were way ahead and our mid player has the balls to BM the other mid saying he's bad even tho the only reason hes behind is because i sat middle killing him. the entire game our mid bm's and trash talks the enemy team while i try to stay sane. i actually felt embarassed being on the same team as this kid.
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Invoker is such a fucking retarded hero .. fuck this shit. If you inc him even he he has 300hp he just cold snaps you and you're dead, he doesn't need regen, has so much versatility, this hero shouldn't even exist in the game. RAGE
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Pudge on our team DCs before game starts. KOTL pauses game saying Pudge will be back soon...Turns out we wait 15+ minutes for this idiot to reconnect, and when he does, the first item he buys with his 603 gold is a bottle LOL. He proceeds to feed first blood to NA, feed another kill and then he DCs again. KOTL pauses again, we wait another 5 minutes, and pudge abandons instead of reconnecting. I understand people sometimes have to disconnect due to internet/dinner/parents/lag/whatever, but if you are going to pause the game then you should make sure that your friend will actually be back...otherwise you just treat the other 8 people's time as if it's completely worthless.
So that was my first and only game of today which now puts me in a 4 loss streak. It just seems that pubs are so shitty these days, good thing GalCiv2 is almost done downloading. 
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On July 27 2012 18:50 rabidch wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 11:08 Quotidian wrote:On July 27 2012 02:48 Erasme wrote:
I'm sorry, if you want to balance the game for the average joe, I don't even know wtf are you doing in teamliquid. this is a SC2 forum - why do you expect to find nothing but hardcore dota players here? On July 27 2012 06:41 kellymilkies wrote:On July 27 2012 01:23 Quotidian wrote:On July 27 2012 01:11 Heh_ wrote:
Well I guess it sucks to be stuck in "elo hell". You suck, your allies suck and your opponents suck. At the level I'm playing, I don't experience whatever you're talking about. Me and my allies can coordinate ganks pretty well, have good map awareness, know how to stick as a team etc.
"Shitty heroes and shitty items" is what happens when you don't know how to play. Like shadow shaman building SnY (seen it before). Again, it's a consequence of being stuck in "elo hell".
TLDR: Don't blame the game if you're bad at it. even people like Purge talks about "bad heroes" (Sven for instance) so it's obviously something that's endemic to the game, not just to the level of play. TLDR: whatever.. get off your high horse On July 27 2012 00:58 Erasme wrote:
I see that you didn't try to communicate, because in most of my games, even if we're not an oiled machine, we're still (trying to) coordinate. If you don't like teamgames where you can chose your strategy, then you should stick to sc2.
It really feels like you're blaming the game because you lose tho. stop assuming. I have commends for "leadership" just like everyone else does. I'm not blaming the game because I lose.. I just as often stuck with the feeling that a lot of the games I win are because of adventitious team picks, so it goes both ways. It's obvious that people aren't interested in looking at dota at any deeper level here, so whatever, I'll let it go. There is no such thing as a bad hero, sure there are bad builds but most of this have to do with skill. I can go SF hex and heart even though im an agi hero if I am raping, because it doesnt matter when im already over level etc. (This is a very loose example, but yes I have bought basher on QOP before because I was already owning). opinions differ there, obviously. Even pro players Purge has interviewed has talked about certain heroes being bad, for instance Shadow Fiend as a lategame carry (I don't remember who said this, but it's on Purge's channel) So whatever.. opinions differ You are being completely rude here by telling people to get off their high horse when after reading your posts you obviously don't understand the game very well atm and talking about it from a new comer point of view.
[...]
I can empathize with how you feel but not with the way you reply aggressively to people who are trying to explain. Dont take it too personally!! oh stop... the people I was replying to "aggressively" were people who were aggressive towards me first. No one has been trying to explain anything. Posters like "Heh_" never wanted to be helpful, he wanted to assert his dota dominance (talk about a pointless quality to possess) and to put me down and to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. There has been overly presumptive posts suggesting that I always pick a carry and don't pick according to enemy team composition, when the opposite is actually the case -- just because that is apparently what new players do according to this guy. If I need to sink 1000 hours into the game to understand it "very well atm" then that just reaffirms my point: The game is way too complex for its own good, it has way too many obscure elements, and a traditional Valve game would've weeded that kind of garbage out because they usually understand that those kind of things makes a game worse. But in this case they've unfortunately decided to do a very straight port instead of taking the opportunity to improve upon a deeply flawed, but still weirdly popular game. Dota is basically the textbook example of "feature creep." I absolutely know what I'm talking about, because I'm talking about my experience as a player of my particular level. If you think Valve isn't seriously concerned with the new player experience, then you're living in La-La Land. Just because I haven't autism'd my way to higher levels of "understanding," doesn't mean I can't spot a horribly designed mess of a game when I see one. Purge isn't a player whose opinions I respect. There's probably only a few dedicated English casters who've played at the top level of DotA/HoN and Purge certainly isn't one of them. There's opinions, and then there's stupid opinions. SF is not a bad late game carry at all if you know what you are doing. He is much better than 3/4 of the pool at carrying and is one of the fastest farmers in the game. Sven is a great hero too, his only limitation is if the other team is smart and stocks up on Blademails and Ghost Scepters if given the opportunity. Honestly there's much much worse heroes around than SF and Sven and it's not like a good player doesn't know how to utilize them. Yes, the game has a stupidly high learning curve but I think its a game where the higher you go the better the view is, just from the strategy perspective. Also there is no ELO hell in this game, it's a lot easier to take control of the game if you're a skill level above than your opponents -- that said you're not going to win every game.
QFT. I have played with players that took 3 games to understand the dynamics of the game and I have played with players with 3000 games under their belt and still do not understand the dynamics of the game. The problem (if you can call it that) is that the game of Dota changes dramatically from the lower to middle to upper skill levels. Decision making is critical to a players ability to improve, regardless of current skill level.
As for hero balance, this isn't a 1v1 x 5 game. Team work does wonders.
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Just gotten literally 5 games in a row of abandons/failed loads. Really aggravating. (In one case someone abandoned and someone else failed to load simultaneously... which i didn't think was possible(
up to 6
7 if we're counting declines. Actually, 9 if we're counting declines.
Final count 13, 4 more 9/10 denies. Hopefully this game actually plays out.
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Anyone else really fucking hate it when your teams invoker goes quas exort? Brings my piss to a boil.
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our trilane with skeleton, lion and nyx managed to go 0-8 in like 10 minutes against wr, kotl....I dont even
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EPT
