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Please remember that while this thread is for QQ and venting about the game, racism is not tolerated here on LD. |
On May 10 2012 17:23 LAN-f34r wrote:
I feel like that if AM is going vanguard+vlads, your team lost in the drafting phase. Na'vi were doing that when AM was still popular and hence they didn't want to give it away, but push was becoming popular. Remember Defence finals though?
Quite simply, if your team can't 4v5 their team, you shouldn't have picked AM.
I mean, all a AM with van+vlads is in teamfights is a vlads aura and mana drain, and then a possibility of free gold if his team dies/runs and the enemy has some disables left.
Err, do you really think the splash from BF or just the damage is what makes AM good in a team fight? I'm not arguing that vanguard vlads is better to build first, because it only is in very rare games. But to make a statement as the one you did, just tells me you haven't really understood the concept of magina, or either of the items, especially BF. To clarify, I'm talking about AM with Threads BF vs Threads vang vlads.
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Its not the splash or the damage that make bfury good on magina (or any similar hero for that matter, except maybe morted), its the farming ability the splash gives.
Together with the mana regen you can basically blink as much as you want and farm lanes/woods ridiculously fast.
And with these farming capabilities you can just outcarry most teams.
But Vanguard+vlads has its place. Ive seen navi play it twice in the match vs mTw last week.
It gives you a more aggressive style. With vanguard, spellshield and antimages relatively high armor you can just blink in and wreak havoc in the midgame.
You dont even have to worry about your damage that much since with mana break and his ult he still hurts alot.
And the vlads doesnt only help you survive its a great pushing tool.
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The point of BF isn't to teamfight immediately after - it is to farm for 5 mins and come out with a full inventory. With a vlads+vanguard AM, you plan to be in a fight. My point is that AM shouldn't even try to fight at this point, hence they should go BF so that they can get to the point where he can teamfight.
On May 10 2012 20:38 paschl wrote:
Its not the splash or the damage that make bfury good on magina (or any similar hero for that matter, except maybe morted), its the farming ability the splash gives.
Together with the mana regen you can basically blink as much as you want and farm lanes/woods ridiculously fast.
And with these farming capabilities you can just outcarry most teams.
But Vanguard+vlads has its place. Ive seen navi play it twice in the match vs mTw last week.
It gives you a more aggressive style. With vanguard, spellshield and antimages relatively high armor you can just blink in and wreak havoc in the midgame.
You dont even have to worry about your damage that much since with mana break and his ult he still hurts alot.
And the vlads doesnt only help you survive its a great pushing tool.
If you are using AM in a pushing/teamfighting lineup, why not go DK or a similar hero? More powerful early and mid game, and still relevant at late game - and you are aiming to have midgame fights, so you shouldn't worry too much about late game.
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Puppey seems to disagree.
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Well, puppey also thinks ES carry is a good idea :D
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On May 10 2012 20:44 LAN-f34r wrote:
The point of BF isn't to teamfight immediately after - it is to farm for 5 mins and come out with a full inventory. With a vlads+vanguard AM, you plan to be in a fight. My point is that AM shouldn't even try to fight at this point, hence they should go BF so that they can get to the point where he can teamfight.
Which is why you go vanguard vlad when there is no fucking way the other team will allow you to farm, and when they're forcing fights and pushing towers in a way that either you help your team and fight, or you lose the game.
Obviously bfury is going to be the preferred choice if you can get away with it in like 99% of games, but vanguard vlad has its place and completely disregarding it is just really, really stupid.
On May 10 2012 20:44 LAN-f34r wrote:
If you are using AM in a pushing/teamfighting lineup, why not go DK or a similar hero? More powerful early and mid game, and still relevant at late game - and you are aiming to have midgame fights, so you shouldn't worry too much about late game.
And regarding this, it's just because you take the AM away from the other team. If AM does get fed he snowballs out of control MUCH faster than a DK does, he can still fight in the midgame just fine, and if you pick a carry, it means you're obviously not intending to go for an all in style push strategy, which means there's always a possibility for a lategame, so it's good to have your bases covered when it comes to lategame as well.
On May 10 2012 18:32 ChrisXIV wrote:
Shadow Fiend skills raze first.
gg
(that, and he fed all game >_>)
Also regarding this, holy shit. As someone who plays SF A LOT, as in he's my most played hero with like 3 times as many games played as my second most played hero, there is nothing more annoying than watching people play him badly.
Level 1 raze, blink rushing (I've seen people go blink before boots, believe it or not), as well people who believe you must go blink every single game, no exceptions, or people who think a few points in stats over aura at a low level is terrible, etc., are just some of the things I see inexperienced SF players do on a very regular basis, and it irritates me beyond belief.
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On May 10 2012 03:56 Erasme wrote:![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/c9JjS.png) ... I was speechless. Last pick wants to get am. So i'm sacarstic 'yeah plz pick am, we don't have enough carry' and wtf does he do? he picks it. then proceeds to have 800hp at 30min. YA GREAT BOY (we lost)
lmao, that kind of sarcasm would probably be the last thing I try in pubs 
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talking about raging over builds
> bash first SB.
> Aura Beastmaster
> EW invoker, going for purely Meteor/sun strike build
> vampiric aura on Skeleton King
etc...
Seriously I hate these SO MUCH.
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On May 11 2012 04:18 Zephirdd wrote:
talking about raging over builds
> bash first SB.
> Aura Beastmaster
> EW invoker, going for purely Meteor/sun strike build
> vampiric aura on Skeleton King
etc...
Seriously I hate these SO MUCH.
Uh I played with a Beastmaster playing stats over pets and build dagon and he was arguing it's the best build to gank, I don't think he was even trolling
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whell Im getting the worst possible games today, every game has been against a stack of 3-5 and in my team there is usualy a stack of players that arent even close to the skill on anyone else in the game, so not fun when the stack in our team has a combined score of like 3-20 and cant even speak english
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if you go stats dagon you are clearly a level above the people you are playing with ;p
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All pick: Player 1 picks Ursa, player 2 shows he'll pick CM, no picks from enemy team. I pick FV.
Player 3: omg fucking noob
Me: ? o.O
Player 3: you picked FV when we have Ursa
Me: so?
Player 3: fuck you how we gonna win fight with 1 nuke
Player 3: fucking noob
*this goes on for a while, he never picks until the creeps spawn. Ursa and CM go top, while Omni and me go bot. He then picks Bane*
Player 3: wtf mid?
Player 3: fucking noobs
Ursa goes 13-2 and I go 12-0 and we win the game no problem. Dunno why I always encounter asshats in my team. >_>
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On May 10 2012 21:26 Canas wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 20:44 LAN-f34r wrote:
The point of BF isn't to teamfight immediately after - it is to farm for 5 mins and come out with a full inventory. With a vlads+vanguard AM, you plan to be in a fight. My point is that AM shouldn't even try to fight at this point, hence they should go BF so that they can get to the point where he can teamfight. Which is why you go vanguard vlad when there is no fucking way the other team will allow you to farm, and when they're forcing fights and pushing towers in a way that either you help your team and fight, or you lose the game. Obviously bfury is going to be the preferred choice if you can get away with it in like 99% of games, but vanguard vlad has its place and completely disregarding it is just really, really stupid. Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 20:44 LAN-f34r wrote:
If you are using AM in a pushing/teamfighting lineup, why not go DK or a similar hero? More powerful early and mid game, and still relevant at late game - and you are aiming to have midgame fights, so you shouldn't worry too much about late game. And regarding this, it's just because you take the AM away from the other team. If AM does get fed he snowballs out of control MUCH faster than a DK does, he can still fight in the midgame just fine, and if you pick a carry, it means you're obviously not intending to go for an all in style push strategy, which means there's always a possibility for a lategame, so it's good to have your bases covered when it comes to lategame as well.
If you pick up supports/gankers first, you can judge how their team is forming and see if you can get a hard carry like AM to work. If they have leshrac veno rhasta ect, then AM is not the right choice, as he will be forced to fight with vanguard vlads. Sure, if you had AM against that team, vanguarad vlads is probably the right choice. But, it wasn't the right choice to pick AM in the first place. There is a reason in competitive drafts you normally pick your carry last (unless you pick a really OP one, like sylla).
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Isn't void the best hard carry ? I mean, he can use his ult to kill 2 supports or the carry 100%, and still is effective after. That's a rax or a bb lategame and 100sec later you can use it to assure rax.
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On May 11 2012 06:37 ChrisXIV wrote:
All pick: Player 1 picks Ursa, player 2 shows he'll pick CM, no picks from enemy team. I pick FV.
Player 3: omg fucking noob
Me: ? o.O
Player 3: you picked FV when we have Ursa
Me: so?
Player 3: fuck you how we gonna win fight with 1 nuke
Player 3: fucking noob
*this goes on for a while, he never picks until the creeps spawn. Ursa and CM go top, while Omni and me go bot. He then picks Bane*
Player 3: wtf mid?
Player 3: fucking noobs
Ursa goes 13-2 and I go 12-0 and we win the game no problem. Dunno why I always encounter asshats in my team. >_>
Whenever some1 starts to flame before like the 10-15 min mark, I automatically report and mute them...
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On May 11 2012 09:00 Erasme wrote:
Isn't void the best hard carry ? I mean, he can use his ult to kill 2 supports or the carry 100%, and still is effective after. That's a rax or a bb lategame and 100sec later you can use it to assure rax.
I'm still in debate mode whether spectre or void is more of a hard of a carry (i'm inclined to think Spectre), mainly because FV has such ridiculous synergy with his amazing skill set and ideal items.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Aura on Beastmaster is a totally legit build, the Chinese are among the ones who use it.
Vlad+Vanguard is actually a very common build on AM, Vanguard treads vlads allows AM to be very aggressive and you seem to underestimate the power of an early Anti-mage with 4 levels in mana break and ultimate.
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On May 11 2012 08:12 LAN-f34r wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 21:26 Canas wrote:On May 10 2012 20:44 LAN-f34r wrote:
The point of BF isn't to teamfight immediately after - it is to farm for 5 mins and come out with a full inventory. With a vlads+vanguard AM, you plan to be in a fight. My point is that AM shouldn't even try to fight at this point, hence they should go BF so that they can get to the point where he can teamfight. Which is why you go vanguard vlad when there is no fucking way the other team will allow you to farm, and when they're forcing fights and pushing towers in a way that either you help your team and fight, or you lose the game. Obviously bfury is going to be the preferred choice if you can get away with it in like 99% of games, but vanguard vlad has its place and completely disregarding it is just really, really stupid. On May 10 2012 20:44 LAN-f34r wrote:
If you are using AM in a pushing/teamfighting lineup, why not go DK or a similar hero? More powerful early and mid game, and still relevant at late game - and you are aiming to have midgame fights, so you shouldn't worry too much about late game. And regarding this, it's just because you take the AM away from the other team. If AM does get fed he snowballs out of control MUCH faster than a DK does, he can still fight in the midgame just fine, and if you pick a carry, it means you're obviously not intending to go for an all in style push strategy, which means there's always a possibility for a lategame, so it's good to have your bases covered when it comes to lategame as well. If you pick up supports/gankers first, you can judge how their team is forming and see if you can get a hard carry like AM to work. If they have leshrac veno rhasta ect, then AM is not the right choice, as he will be forced to fight with vanguard vlads. Sure, if you had AM against that team, vanguarad vlads is probably the right choice. But, it wasn't the right choice to pick AM in the first place. There is a reason in competitive drafts you normally pick your carry last (unless you pick a really OP one, like sylla).
You can't just say "it wasn't right to pick AM in the first place", the hero does have a pretty strong midgame with mana break and void, as well as being quite tanky with vanguard vlad and treads, as well as spell shield, and you have no idea what the team that picked AM's strategy going into it was.
The hero can and does work against lineups like that if you play it right, as in, with vanguard vlad, and if a team feel that they want AM, they'll get AM.
I even believe puppey has been quoted saying that "there's no such thing as outpick", which I would actually be inclined to believe unless you take it to the extreme, which puppey actually does every now and then. Not too long ago he picked a lineup of brood/invoker/NS/AM/SD and ran a support NS in a game vs mouz. They lost that game, but the fact that a drafter of puppey's level would draft a lineup like that says a thing or two.
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You don't learn unless you try. I would only consider "so and so did this" as a valid argument if they consistently do it ('cause otherwise ES buriza legit build).
My argument isn't that AM can't be useful in the mid game. My argument is that there are better picks than AM for midgame teamfighting.
And we are presuming that the AM is going vlads+vanguard. Hence the team that drafted him was planning on midgame teamfighting, or was forced into midgame teamfighting. In the former case, I'm saying there are better picks than AM, in the latter I'm saying that the AM team got outpicked.
And how is outpicked not a thing. If successful picking does not give you an advantage, why would good quality captains be valued? You can argue that it isn't as important as someone might think, or that in a individual situation the teams are equal, but to say outpicking doesn't exist?
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I'm getting so many extremely lopsided games today... games with one team having 3-4 times the amount of kills. Is the matchmaking completely shit or what?
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EPT
