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Applied Changes: March 17 (1AM CEST)
Actual Schedule (CET)
Day 1
- 12:30AM-1:30AM: Reading Patch Notes
- 2:00-3:00AM: Applied Initial Changes
Day 2
- 9:30AM-12:30PM: Follow-through on publishing 7.03 changes
- 12:30-7:30PM: Transitioning Redundant Guides to Inactivity
- 7:30-8:30PM: Dinner
- 8:30-12:30PM: Transferring core redundant guide data to merge with main guides
- 12:30PM-1AM: Finalization Community Post & Data Archive
Total Elapsed Time: 15.5 Hours
Total changes made: 155 approx. changes
42 Guides applied
110 Guides remain unchanged
 Huskar
New Talent Tree: 10 (+5 Burning DPS), 15 (15% Lifesteal), 20 (+14 Strength), 25 (+500 Life Break Cast Range)
Moved Armlet of Mordiggian to Core Items
Moved Hurricane Pike to Core Items
Moved Heaven's Halberd to Extension Items
Removed Dragon Lance
 Jakiro
New Talent Tree: 11 (+8% Spell Amplification), 15 (+125 Cast Range), 20 (+400 Attack Range), 25 (+1.25s Ice Path Duration)
Terrorblade
New Talent Tree: 10 (+15 Attack Speed), 15 (+200 Health), 20 (+15 Agility), 25 (+15 All Stats)
Added Iron Talon to Core Items
 Juggernaut
Added Diffusal Blade to Core Items
Moved Mjolnnir to Extension Items
Removed Monkey King Bar
Keeper of the Light
New Skill Build: Q E E Q E Q R E W T W Q W W T R R T T (1. Chakra Magic 2. Illuminate 3. Mana Leak)
Phoenix (Offlane)
Phoenix (Support)
New Talent Tree: 10 (-20s Respawn Time), 15 (+50 Fire Spirits DPS), 20 (+8% Spell Amplification), 25 (+2 Supernova Hit Count)
 Pudge
Removed Eul's Scepter of Divnity
 Magnus
New Talent Tree: 10 (+25 Attack Speed), 15 (+90 Gold/Min), 20 (+15% Empower Damage/Cleave), 25 (-4s Shockwave Cooldown)
Added Iron Talon to Core Items
 Slardar
New Skill Build: W Q Q W Q R W Q W T E R E E T E R T T (1. Guardian Sprint 2. Slithereen Crush 3. Bash of the Deep)
Added Quelling Blade to Core Items
Added Eul's Scepter of Divinity to Extension Items
Removed Solar Crest
Wraith King
Created New Tab: "Core Items (Radiance)"
Added Radiance to "Core Items (Radiance)"
Added Magic Wand to "Core Items (Radiance)"
Added Blink Dagger to "Core Items (Radiance)"
Added Blade Mail to "Core Items (Radiance)"
Moved Magic Wand to Core Items
Moved Heart of Bloodthorn to Extension Items
Removed Heart of Tarrasque
 Phantom Assassin
Created New Tab: Starting Items (Middle)
Created New Tab: Core Items (Middle)
Added Poor Man's Shield to Starting Items (Middle)
Added Iron Branch to Starting Items (Middle)
Added Faerie Fire to Starting Items (Middle)
Added Blight Stone to Core Items (Middle)
Added Bottle to Core Items (Middle)
Earth Spirit (Support)
Created New Tab: "Early Game"
Moved Boots of Speed to "Early Game"
Moved Urn of Shadows to "Early Game"
Removed Animal Courier
Sand King
New Skill Build: Q E Q W Q E Q E R T E R W W T W R T T (1. Burrowstrike 2. Caustic Finale 3. Sand Storm)
Added Octarine Core to Extension Items
Moved Veil of Discord to Situational Items
Monkey King (Core)
Added Healing Salve to Starting Items
Added Iron Branch to Starting Items
Added Orb of Venom to Early Game
Added Assault Cuirass to Extension Items
Removed Clarity
Removed Mjollnir
Removed Manta Style
Monkey King (Offlane)
New Skill Build: W E Q E E R E W W T W R Q Q T Q R T T (1. Jingu Mastery 2. Tree Dance 3. Boundless Strike)
Added Poor Man's Shield to Early Game
Added Phase Boots to Core Items
Added Assault Cuirass to Extension Items
Removed Healing Salve
Removed Observer Ward
Removed Blight Stone
Removed Power Treads
Removed Mjollnir
Removed Manta Style
Lycan (Jungle)
New Skill Build: Q E Q E Q R Q W E T E R W W T W R T T (1. Summon Wolves 2. Feral Impulse 3. Howl)
New Talent Tree: 10 (+15 Damage), 15 (-25s Respawn Time), 20 (15% Cooldown Reduction), 25 (+2 Wolves Summoned)
Added Tango to Starting Items
Added Morbid Mask to Early Game
Added Ring of Basilius to Early Game
Moved Vladmir's Offering to Core Items
Moved Boots of Speed to Core Items
Removed Healing Salve
Removed HOTD
Removed Blight Stone
Removed Power Treads
Lycan (Core)
New Skill Build: W E W E W R W Q Q Q Q R T E T E R T T (1. Howl 2. Summon Wolves 3. Feral Impulse)
New Talent Tree: 13 (+175 Health), 15 (+12 Strength), 20 (15% Cooldown Reduction), 25 (+15s Shapeshift Duration)
Added Blight Stone to Early Game
Added Helm of the Dominator to Early Game
Movedd Desolator to Core Items
Removed Vladmir's Offering
Oracle (Core)
Created New Tab: "Core Items (Core)"
Added Arcane Boots to Core Items (Core)
Added Magic Wand to Core Items (Core)
Added Mekansm to Core Items (Core)
Added Guardian Greaves to Extension Items
Moved Glimmer Cape to Core Items (Support)
Moved Veil of Discord to Situational Items
Moved Eul's Scepter of Divinity to Extension Items
 Rubick
New Skill Build: Q W W Q W R W Q Q T E R E E T E R T T (1. Fade Bolt 2. Telekinesis 3. Null Field)
Added Wind Lace to Starting Items
Moved Aether Lens to Extension Items
Moved Eul's Scepter to Extension Items
Removed Clarity
Removed Healing Salve
Removed Iron Branch
Elder Titan (Offlane)
New Skill Build: Q W Q E Q R Q E E T E R W W T W R T T (1. Echo Stomp 2. Natural Order 3. Astral Spirit)
New Talent Tree: 10 (-20s Respawn Time), 15 (+275 Health), 20 (+12% Magic Resistance), 25 (+15 Armor)
Created New Tab: "Early Game"
Added Boots of Speed to "Early Game"
Added Blade Mail to Situational Items
Added Heaven's Halberd to Extension Items
Added Lotus Orb to Extension Items
Added Pipe of Insight to Extension Items
Moved Soul Ring to Early Game
Moved Veil of Discord to Situational Items
Removed Glimmer Cape
Removed Rod of Atos
Removed Aghanim's Scepter
Removed Shiva's Guard
Renamed Core
Dragon Knight (Core/Mid)
Created New Tab: "Early Game (Safe Lane)"
Created New Tab: "Early Game (Middle)"
Moved Soul Ring to "Early Game (Safe Lane)"
Moved Bottle to "Early Game (Middle)"
Renamed Core/Magic
Ember Spirit (Core/Mid)
New Talent Tree: 11 (10% Spell Amplification), 16 (+6 All Stats), 20 (+500 Flame Guard Absorption), 25 (20% Cooldown Reduction)
Renamed Core/Physical
Ember Spirit (Core/Safe)
New Talent Tree: 10 (+25 Damage), 15 (+6 All Stats), 20 (+500 Flame Guard Absorption), 25 (20% Cooldown Reduction)
Renamed Core/Radiance
 Alchemist (Core/Mid)
Created New Tab: "For Friends"
Added Moon Shard to "For Friends"
Moved Aghanim's Scepter to "For Friends"
Renamed Core/Physical
Alchemist (Core/Safe)
Created New Tab: "For Friends"
Added Moon Shard to "For Friends"
Moved Aghanim's Scepter to "For Friends"
Renamed Core
Arc Warden (Core/Mid)
New Skill Build: E Q Q W Q R Q E E E T R W W T W R T T (1. Flux 2. Spark Wraith 3. Magnetic Field)
New Talent Tree: 10 (+25 Attack Speed), 15 (+30 Damage), 20 (+100 Attack Range), 25 (30% Lifesteal)
Created New Tab: "Core Items (Safe Lane)"
Added Ring of Aquila to Early Game
Added Maelstrom to Core Items
Added Orchid of Malevolence to Core Items
Added Phase Boots to "Core Items (Safe Lane)"
Added Shadow Blade to "Core Items (Safe Lane)"
Added Mjollnir to "Core Items (Safe Lane)"
Added Boots of Travel - Level 2 to Extension Items
Added Butterfly to Extension Items
Moved Blink Dagger to Core Items (Middle)
Moved Hurricane Pike to "Core Items (Safe Lane)"
Removed Bottle
Removed Monkey King Bar
Renamed Core/Range
Lone Druid (Core)
New Skill Build: Q W Q E Q W W W Q T E R E E T R R T T (1. Rabid 2. Summon Spirit Bear 3. True Form)
Added Maelstrom to Core - Druid (Safe Lane)
Renamed Jungle/Radiance
Lone Druid[ (Jungle)
New Skill Build: Q W Q W Q W Q R W T E R E E T E R T T (1. Summon Spirit Bear 2. Rabid 3. Savage Roar)
Added Desolator to Extension Bear Items
Removed Mask of Madness
Renamed Jungle
 Bloodseeker (Offlane)
New Skill Build: Q E Q E E R E W Q Q T R W W T W R T T (1. Thirst 2. Bloodrage 3. Blood Rite)
Created New Tab: "Core Items (Snowball)"
Added Iron Talon to Starting Items (Jungle)
Added Wind Lace to Core Items (Jungle)
Added Shadow Blade to Core Items (Jungle)
Added Boots of Speed to "Core Items (Snowball)"
Added Wind Lace to "Core Items (Snowball)"
Added Dagon - Level 5 to "Core Items (Snowball)"
Added Ethereal Blade to "Core Items (Snowball)"
Moved Aghanim's Scepter to "Core Items (Snowball)"
Moved Silver Edge to Extension Items
Removed Stout Shield
Remove Healing Salve
Removed Poor Man's Shield
Removed Blade Mail
Removed Heaven's Halberd
Renamed Core
 Sniper (Core/Mid)
New Talent Tree: 11 (+15 Attack Speed), 16 (+20 Shrapnel DPS), 20 (25% Cooldown Reduction), 25 (+4 Shrapnel Charges)
Retired
Arc Warden (Core/Safe)
Ancient Apparition (Core)
Bloodseeker (Jungle)
Dragon Knight (Core/Safe)
Elder Titan (Support)
Oracle (Core)
 Shadow Shaman (Core)
 Slark (Core/Mid)
Sniper (Core/Safe)
Troll Warlord (Offlane)
Underlord (Support)
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Patch is smaller than I expected, not sure why it isn't a 7.01-7.02a/b/c
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Jesus, I've made a terrible mistake in taking on this transition
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With the continued HotD nerfs I think it's time to reverse some of the HotD-core-on-all-cores trend. Namely:
Dragon Knight - Shouldn't be buying it for the stacking anymore, even situationally.
Drow Ranger - needs some sort of HP sustain but would rather have something cheaper like a morbid mask.
Faceless Void - situational HotD is completely unexplained. I suppose someone with excellent micro could use dominated units in conjunction with chonosphere, but most of your users can't.
Phantom Assassin - HotD should be re-described as a situational item; It's not clear when it would replace Vanguard and it DEFINITELY shouldn't replace any other core item. Lifesteal mention should be replaced by HP regen.
Phantom Lancer - I don't know what HotD is supposed to be doing for him apart from personal regen. An elusive Lancer played by a pub player will have trouble getting their creep to keep up with the hero.
Sven - I strongly disagree with rushing HotD before upgrading boots, even with stacking. It seems like it would delay his important blink timing too much.
Viper - Not that HotD is bad, but it seems like Mek does almost all of what you'd want HotD to do unless your micro is really good.
And some exceptions:
Gyrocopter - maybe worthwhile? But not for pure stacking as the description implies.
Juggernaut, Luna - Getting it for pushing seems fine, even if the healing aura is redundant with healing ward on Jugg.
Lycan - Fits in well with his split push build. It's questionable with echo saber, but I'd cut the saber sooner than the helm.
Troll - I was mildly surprised to not see it, as he appreciates the extra control a net/purge/stomp/clap would give him and his ultimate makes the creep more of a threat early.
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On March 17 2017 08:33 Buckyman wrote:
With the continued HotD nerfs I think it's time to reverse some of the HotD-core-on-all-cores trend. Namely:
Dragon Knight - Shouldn't be buying it for the stacking anymore, even situationally.
Drow Ranger - needs some sort of HP sustain but would rather have something cheaper like a morbid mask.
Faceless Void - situational HotD is completely unexplained. I suppose someone with excellent micro could use dominated units in conjunction with chonosphere, but most of your users can't.
Phantom Assassin - HotD should be re-described as a situational item; It's not clear when it would replace Vanguard and it DEFINITELY shouldn't replace any other core item. Lifesteal mention should be replaced by HP regen.
Phantom Lancer - I don't know what HotD is supposed to be doing for him apart from personal regen. An elusive Lancer played by a pub player will have trouble getting their creep to keep up with the hero.
Sven - I strongly disagree with rushing HotD before upgrading boots, even with stacking. It seems like it would delay his important blink timing too much.
Viper - Not that HotD is bad, but it seems like Mek does almost all of what you'd want HotD to do unless your micro is really good.
And some exceptions:
Gyrocopter - maybe worthwhile? But not for pure stacking as the description implies.
Juggernaut, Luna - Getting it for pushing seems fine, even if the healing aura is redundant with healing ward on Jugg.
Lycan - Fits in well with his split push build. It's questionable with echo saber, but I'd cut the saber sooner than the helm.
Troll - I was mildly surprised to not see it, as he appreciates the extra control a net/purge/stomp/clap would give him and his ultimate makes the creep more of a threat early.
doesn't have it in his build except as situational if I recall.
Let's wait on Drow Ranger, but I agree
Will take a look at the next run. If a player can't do it, that's not something a guide accounts for.
I'll fix
 lets wait on this one
 data says otherwise, I gotta double-check if it has changed recently, but I recall it being justified
 it's just a different, more aggressive build - let's wait on this one
 yep
urp
I cut the Helm instead
I'll tkae a look.
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On February 22 2017 20:11 bdonballer wrote:
New Guides: My Two Cents
Abbadon (Support) Yes
Batrider (Jungle) Yes, could be roam/jungle. zfreek played a lot of the position 4 batrider in elimination mode
Chaos Knight (Offlane or Support) No, really don't think he is that viable as either. Reliant on levels and farm.
Enchantress (Offlane) Yes
Enigma (Offlane) Yes, been seeing a lot of action in high level games. Bulba and zai
Morphling (Support or Offlane) Yes, support though. Strength stun with atos/euls is a really long lockdown. Think its viable
Mirana (Support or Roam) Roaming position 4 mirana is good, start with courier wards and lots of clarities. run around lanes and jungle
Natures Prophet (Offlane) No
Necrophos (Offlane or Support) Yes, really good with early push strats with arcane boots and mek. I would prefer an offlane guide to a support one though.
Omniknight (Core or Offlane) No
Treant Protector (Offlane or Jungle) Yes, dual offlaner. start in lane with orb of venom and natures guise. bully lane and fall back to jungle with iron talon. aghs is a must
Vengeful Spirit (Core) Yes, seen in a lot of pro games. Definitely a good hero early to mid game as carry
Old Guides to be Removed
I agree with removing all of them, but Tiny (mid) and Warlock (core). I think those are the only ones that are viable.
Was thinking similar except I want Omni Core because it looks fun
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So how many people actually thought I wouldn't go through with the transition?
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Potential New Guides (Part 3) subject to change
Abaddon (Support)
 Enchantress (Offlane)
 Engima (Offlane)
 Morphling (Support) - Offlane
 Mirana (Support) - Roaming
Nature's Prophet (Offlane)
Necrophos (Core)
 Omniknight (Core) - Offlane
Treant Protector (Offlane)
Vengeful Spirit (Core) - Safe Lane
 Venomancer (Jungle)
Guides Removed (Part 3)
Ancient Apparition (Core)
Arc Warden (Core/Middle)
Bloodseeker (Offlane)
Dragon Knight (Core/Safe)
Elder Titan (Support)
Oracle (Core)
Shadow Shaman (Core)
Slark (Core/Mid)
Sniper (Core/Safe)
Troll Warlord (Offlane)
Underlord (Support)
Reddit Thread
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On March 17 2017 17:55 Torte de Lini wrote:
So how many people actually thought I wouldn't go through with the transition?
On the one hand, I wondered why even bothering if there's no competition and no reason to create additional work.
On the other, I hate imperfections and feeling like I have an incomplete collection.
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While you're adding guides, consider either making a Nature's Prophet (Lane) guide or modifying the existing guide with different starting items for a lane start.
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On March 18 2017 03:36 Buckyman wrote:
While you're adding guides, consider either making a Nature's Prophet (Lane) guide or modifying the existing guide with different starting items for a lane start.
It's definitely in the list haha
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 Leshrac (Core)
New Skill Build: Q W W Q W R W Q Q T E E E E T R R T T (1. Diabolic Edict 2. Split Earth 3. Lightning Storm)
Leshrac (Support)
New Skill Build: Q W Q W Q W Q R W T E R E E T E T T (1. Split Earth 2. Diabolic Edict 3. Lightning Storm)
New Talent Tree: 10 (+125 Health), 15 (+400 Mana), 20 (+15 Strength), 25 (+50 Diabolic Edict Explosions)
Faceless Void
New Talent Tree: 10 (+15 Attack Speed), 15 (+25 Damage), 20 (+120 Gold/Min), 25 (+20% Evasion)
Added Iron Talon to Situational Items
Removed Helm of the Dominator
Phantom Lancer
New Talent Tree: 10 (+20 Attack Speed), 15 (+8 All Stats), 20 (15% Evasion), 25 (+20 Strength)
Moved Blink Dagger to Core Items
Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Core Items
Moved Manta Style to Extension Items
Removed Helm of the Dominator
Removed Clarity
Troll Warlord
Added Shadow Blade to Core Items
Moved Ring of Aquila to Early Game
Removed Morbid Mask
Viper
Added Yasha to Core Items (Mid - Aggro)
Added Dragon Lance to Core Items (Mid - Aggro)
Removed Helm of the Dominator
Drow Ranger
Moved Hurricane Pike to Core Items
Removed Helm of the Dominator
Abaddon
Created New Tab: "Utility Items"
Added Gem of True Sight to "Utility Items"
Centaur Warrunner
Created New Tab: "Utility Items"
Added Gem of True Sight to "Utility Items"
Pudge
Added Gem of True Sight to Utility Items
 Invoker (Quas/Exort)
New Skill Build: E W E Q E Q E Q E Q E W E T T W W W T T
Viper
Added Solar Crest to Situational Items
Enchantress
New Talent Tree: 10 (+6 All Stats), 15 (+50 Damage), 20 (+60 Untouchable Slow), 25 (Enchant Affects Ancients)
Added Phase Boots to Core Items
Added Drum of Endurance to Core Items
Added Hand of Midas to Situational Items
Added Eul's Scepter of Divinity to Situational Items
Removed Power Treads
Removed Helm of the Dominator
Removed Rod of Atos
Juggernaut
Created New Tab: "Starting Items (Middle)"
Added Poor Man's Shield to "Starting Items (Middle)"
Added Iron Branch x2 to "Starting Items (Middle)"
Added Bottle to Situational Items
Moved Phase Boots to Core Items (Safe Lane)
Moved Ring of Aquila to Early Game
Removed Helm of the Dominator
Earth Spirit (Support)
Added Hand of Midas to Situational Items
Moved Urn of Shadows to Core Items
 Weaver (Core)
Created New Tab: "Starting Items (Middle)"
Created New Tab: "Early Game (Middle)"
Added Wraith Band to "Starting Items (Middle)"
Added Faerie Fire to "Starting Items (Middle)"
Added Iron Branch to "Starting Items (Middle)"
Added Ring of Aquila to "Early Game (Middle)"
Added Boots of Speed to "Early Game (Middle)"
Added Blight Stone to "Early Game (Middle)"
Added Heart of Tarrasque to Extension Items
Added Mjollnir to Extension Items
Added Eye of Skadi to Extension Items
Added Bloodthorn to Extension Items
Moved Bottle to "Early Game (Middle)"
Moved Linken's Sphere to Core Items
Removed Healing Salve
Removed Daedalus
Removed Monkey King Bar
Renamed Support
Weaver (Offlane)
New Talent Tree: 10 (+6 Strength), 15 (+7 All Stats), 20 (+15 Agility), 25 (+200 Shukuchi Movement Speed)
Added Blight Stone to Starting Items
Added Medallion of Courage to Early Game
Added Aghanim's Scepter to Core Items
Added Solar Crest to Core Items
Added Bottle to Situational Items
Added Hand of Midas to Situational Items
Added Vladmir's Offering to Situational Items
Added Lotus Orb to Extension Items
Added Boots of Travel to Extension Items
Moved Power Treads to Early Game
Moved Magic Wand to Early Game
Moved Desolator to Extension Items
Moved Diffusal Blade - Level 2 to Extension Items
Moved Linken's Sphere to Extension Items
Removed Healing Salve
Removed Observer Ward
Removed Boots of Speed
Removed Dragon Lance
Removed Black King Bar
Removed Butterfly
Removed Eye of Skadi
Removed Daedalus
Renamed Support
Monkey King (Offlane)
New Skill Build: W E Q Q Q R Q E E T E R W W T W R T T (1. Boundless Strike 2. Jingu Mastery 3. Tree Dance)
New Talent Tree: 10 (+20 Attack Speed), 15 (+75 Jingu Mastery Damage), 20 (+40 Damage), 25 (+100% Boundless Strike Crit)
Added Skull Basher to Core Items
Moved Desolator to Extension Items
Moved Silver Edge to Extension Items
Removed Poor Man's Shield
Removed Boots of Speed
Removed Shadow Blade
Removed Butterfly
Removed Assault Cuirass
Renamed Core/Carry
Gyrocopter (Core/Safe)
Created New Tab: "Core Items (Aghanim's)"
Added Phase Boots to "Core Items (Aghanim's)"
Added Ring of Aquila to "Core Items (Aghanim's)"
Added Maelstrom to "Core Items (Aghanim's)"
Added Aghanim's Scepter to "Core Items (Aghanim's)"
Added Black King Bar to "Core Items (Aghanim's)"
Added Mjolnnir to Extension Items
Moved Black King Bar to Core Items
Moved Sange & Yasha to Situational Items
Moved Manta Style to Extension Items
Renamed Core/Ganker
Gyrocopter (Core/Mid)
New Talent Tree: 10 (+6% Spell Amplification), 15 (+30 Damage), 20 (20% Cooldown Reduction), 25 (3 Homing Missile Charges)
Retired
Earth Spirit (Core)
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I want to do a Necrophos mid, but there is no way to fit it into this guide without it being convoluted (even if they share the same ability build)
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=129193377
Maybe I'll just make another Necrophos guide, but I personally don't really want to.
Gonna retire one more: Earth Spirit (Core).
Gonna finalize HOTD adjustments by this week, then I'll wait a week and publish 10 more guides.
Then I'll wait a week or two to announce it (I'll be going to Moscow in the coming week, so I'll be a bit busy).
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From what I've seen in the high level / pro scene (example) Monkey King supports usually max Tree Dance before Jingu because they aren't able to lock onto a single target for very long until they have items, and because they farm with Primal Spring.
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The linked YouTube cast is for your third Dotabuff example.
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The build is a little inordinate to be able to claim that we should max W, no?
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That reddit thread where the guy claimed w max to be best is probably right or atleast close to. TBH u are not going to make a huge mistake whether u max q or w first, obv vs heroes who have blinks and stuff stun is better than slow. Simple math.
I dont think u should waste too much time on this, its negligible difference imo
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We'll see soon, going to finalize changes today and then post stats.
Then I might do the guides now before it gets too late.
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EPT
