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On October 20 2020 23:22 unit wrote:
Looking to build PC for 1080p gaming. Main goals are playing sc2 on ultra, possibly streaming at some point but not a requirement. And to play titles like Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk 2077 on at least high settings.
I’m currently looking at building around a Ryzen 5 2600 and RX580. Mostly wondering if this would be enough or if I should go higher on either part. Build cost goal is to stay under 1k usd
What else do you need? Do you just need the tower or all peripherals as well? Check the OP for an exhaustive list of questions, answer as much of that as you can. You get a very different computer with $700 Tower + peripherals vs a $1000 tower.
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On October 23 2020 04:06 Lmui wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2020 23:22 unit wrote:
Looking to build PC for 1080p gaming. Main goals are playing sc2 on ultra, possibly streaming at some point but not a requirement. And to play titles like Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk 2077 on at least high settings.
I’m currently looking at building around a Ryzen 5 2600 and RX580. Mostly wondering if this would be enough or if I should go higher on either part. Build cost goal is to stay under 1k usd What else do you need? Do you just need the tower or all peripherals as well? Check the OP for an exhaustive list of questions, answer as much of that as you can. You get a very different computer with $700 Tower + peripherals vs a $1000 tower.
Tower/monitor. Since my goal is 1080p 60fps I can get away with a cheaper monitor so realistically around $800 for tower, $100 Win10, $100 monitor
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United Kingdom20297 Posts
On October 22 2020 13:09 Craton wrote:
Why would it want to use different timings if all 4 sticks have the same starting timings?
You may be thinking of the primary timings, there are only 4 of those but there are like 50 relevant memory/IMC settings.
There are three RTT's for example and single or dual rank even of the same memory IC will want different settings there, having the wrong value can be the difference between being rock solid stable or not even able to POST at a certain frequency. When different sticks want different values the motherboard or the user can't set them seperately and must attempt a bad compromise which is hopefully stable, but just at a lower max frequency.
Most users don't touch these kinds of settings but they are important when running settings that are hard for the memory controller / mobo - very high frequency, or a combination of moderate frequency and many memory ranks. It's quite easy to run loads of memory at potato speed.
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What would you recommend for 4X / grand strategy games, a custom built PC or a gaming laptop?
If laptop is the way to go, what would you suggest getting on a relatively tight budget in the UK?
If custom is a better option, what would you build for this purpose.
To give you a bit of a frame of reference, let's say I have 800 pounds.
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Laptops are always going to lose to desktops in terms of cost vs performance. It's really a matter of if you need the mobility.
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Lalalaland34492 Posts
In the UK. I'm thinking about possibly buying a computer that can run Cyberpunk 2077 decently. Probably would lean towards prebuilt or custom-pieces-but-someone-builds-it-for me. What would the expected cost be for a 1080 versus a 1440 and 144hz setup, excluding peripherals and screen?
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Iirc the demand scales pretty linearly with the number of pixels per second, so 1440p@60 is about double the graphical demand of 1080p@60 and 1080p@144 is a little under 2.5x. Not sure about how much of an effect it has on CPU-bound games, but I would expect it to primarily affect the GPU requirements. If you're looking at benchmarks and they only have e.g. 1080p@60 you can usually extrapolate reasonably well.
That said, as someone who has used 1440p for awhile, I recommend 1080p. Bigger resolution screens end up with too-small UI on most things, which makes you use things like UI scaling, zooming (e.g. websites), DPI scaling, etc. Most games handle the larger resolution fine since it's still a 16 x 9 aspect ratio, but YMMV. There are some benefits in appearance for games, but IMO it really doesn't feel worthwhile for what you get. The benefit of higher framerates really depends on what you're playing and your own perception. Some people don't notice much/any difference, others feel it's night and day. If you do opt for a higher hz monitor, you want gsync/freesync for a smoother experience.
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Lalalaland34492 Posts
The reason I ask about the price difference is because I have a spare 1080p@60 and also a spare 1440p@144 screen. The reason I'm not investing straight in for 1440p@144 is because this computer may only last me 1-2 years before I sell it.
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United Kingdom20297 Posts
It really depends on the graphics settings and framerate you wanna run, the minimum specs are laughably low but that's with all of the raytracing stuff turned off etc.
Additionally the GPU market is in a terrible place right now since we're stuck between generations.
2000 series nvidia cards are priced really badly
3000 is excellent, but backordered x1000 and probably not readily available until like february
rdna1 (5700) exists but doesn't have hardware DXR accel (raytracing stuff) or similar features.
rdna2 is being announced in 2 days and is widely expected to bring some more nvidia-like features, higher performance (3070-3080 tier cards) and alleviate some of the supply issues, but will probably instantly sell out too
Should be much better in Q1 2021 with supply of both ampere and rdna2 cards.
btw, 144hz is still way better than 60hz even if you're playing a game at 40fps.
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Lalalaland34492 Posts
Yeah, but my 144hz monitor is 1440p, and my 1080p is 60hz, so I'm a bit limited in options there. I'd shoot for high graphic settings, not ultra/extreme.
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Cyberpunk did everyone a favour and delayed the launch til Dec. 10, so plenty more time to actually plan a GPU, and some time to find one in stores. Probably wait til AMD's announcement and see where at least the preliminary info puts it. Lots of rumours right now, but no solid information. Nvidia's already shown all their cards, so there's almost a complete picture now.
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Funny that, I was thinking just the same thting. With the delay of the launch, hopefully the GTX 3060 will be released.
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United Kingdom20297 Posts
On October 28 2020 11:29 Lmui wrote:
Cyberpunk did everyone a favour and delayed the launch til Dec. 10, so plenty more time to actually plan a GPU, and some time to find one in stores. Probably wait til AMD's announcement and see where at least the preliminary info puts it. Lots of rumours right now, but no solid information. Nvidia's already shown all their cards, so there's almost a complete picture now.
Currently there is a delay on the scale of 3 months+ between placing an order and getting it filled for any ampere card, hopefully that falls quickly. I ordered mine instantly and it's not clear that i'l have it before Cyberpunk even with this delay.
RDNA2 looks solid in terms of rasterization and memory performance as well as leadership efficiency but i worry about the glaring holes with sub-par video engine, no DLSS-alike feature, no feature even remotely comparable to Reflex, sub-par adaptive refresh, drivers which take 2.5x more CPU per frame on dx11 and so on. None of these problems were adequately addressed - if mentioned at all - during the video.
I can't justify them fighting at rasterization price/perf of Nvidia unless they have feature parity. Why pay the same for less? I was really hoping that 6800 would be $480-500 but it turned out to be $580 and that instantly killed my hype for it.
16GB VRAM across the board is great
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16GB VRAM is probably the sweet spot for 4k futureproofing. It's definitely a competitive differentiator.
For DLSS, I think I heard a mention of supersampling/superscaling coming in the future, but I'm not 100% sure.
They don't have a 3070 competitor yet, so we'll have to see where performance winds up sitting relative to 3080/3090. Hopefully the week 3/4 stock levels for AMD is going to be better. I expect week 1-2 to sell out pretty much instantly.
The stuff on top for nvidia is nice, but I'm still not going to install geforce experience for it. If I'm at 144/240hz, reflex barely makes a difference.
Edit:
Looks like it was super resolution, coming soon(tm).
Also the plain 6800 looks DoA. Lower clocks and 83% the CU for 89% the price.
I'm guessing yields make the 6800XT the avg yielding chip, but they needed somewhere to dump chips that didn't quite make the cut and didn't want to intentionally waste better dies to make them.
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On October 23 2020 07:32 unit wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2020 04:06 Lmui wrote:On October 20 2020 23:22 unit wrote:
Looking to build PC for 1080p gaming. Main goals are playing sc2 on ultra, possibly streaming at some point but not a requirement. And to play titles like Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk 2077 on at least high settings.
I’m currently looking at building around a Ryzen 5 2600 and RX580. Mostly wondering if this would be enough or if I should go higher on either part. Build cost goal is to stay under 1k usd What else do you need? Do you just need the tower or all peripherals as well? Check the OP for an exhaustive list of questions, answer as much of that as you can. You get a very different computer with $700 Tower + peripherals vs a $1000 tower. Tower/monitor. Since my goal is 1080p 60fps I can get away with a cheaper monitor so realistically around $800 for tower, $100 Win10, $100 monitor
Responding a bit late because I wanted to see what released today.
Rough time to buy. The lower end market is poor value right now because for the high end, you can pay about twice as much and get close to linear scaling performance wise since next-gen high end just launched, but budget parts are probably 2-3 months out.
For SC2, I honestly would get a grey market win10 key from ebay for $10 and spend $180 on a decent monitor.
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/LR9Nqp
This'll be a far better experience inside your budget.
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Hey Guys, Im looking for a PC, I want to be able to play modern games on normal settings. I mostly play Starcraft: R but Iwould like to stream other games too. I also do some basic animation in Flash CS6, very old but I like it. My monitor is 1920x 1080. I will upgrade to 144mhz monitor in the future.
The most importan point is I want to upgrade in about a Year with Zen 3 and a top GPU. So going best bang for buck right now would be great.
Also I live in Argentina so talking about the price in dollars is useless. What I would like is to know If Im overkilling in some parts or if I am beeing too cheap in others.
This are the parts I am looking at rigth now.
MOBO: x570-P Prime vs TUF b550m Gaming. I think the Prime P is a very good MObo for its price, and x570 will be better for upgrades maybe?
CPU: Ryzen 5 3600 vs 3500 vs 3300x vs AF 1600. Here I would love the 3600 but I can save a lot without losing too much performance with the other options. So I'am willing to be flexible.
RAM: 32GB 2x16 3200mhz vs 16GB 2x8 3200mhz. Do I really need all that RAM? My reasoning is: If I upgrade in a Year I will not need any more ram If I get the 32Gb now. And it's the cheapest to overkill I think.
GPU: 1650super vs any Radeon or Nvidia that is cheaper. I think this GPU has everything I need for very little money. Good for streaming and gaming. But If there is some other good GPU that is as good for streaming and gaming let me know plz.
Storage: SDD PCI-E x4 m.2 512 vs 1TB. I know it doesnt make a difference in gaming, but here it is almost the same price as SATA. In a year from now I may not need another SDD If I get the 1 TB now.
Power: 500W 80+ bronze. This will be upgraded in a year if it needs to. I don't think PSU is a good place to overkill right now.
I think that's it. I am open to all suggestions and advice.
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United Kingdom20297 Posts
For DLSS, I think I heard a mention of supersampling/superscaling coming in the future, but I'm not 100% sure.
Indeed, but DLSS has a lot of dedicated hardware to make it possible. It's repurposed, but it's dedicated hardware. It's been a surprise that DLSS 2.0 even with that hardware can make a result worth using - i doubt that navi can accomplish the same without it.
From what i've seen this smells exactly like the adaptive sync situation where they're talking big but will show up late to market with a bad product, improve it some but leave it sub-par for the next 5 years. I'm STILL waiting for them to even announce that they are working on implementing critical features like adaptive overdrive which were supported on Nvidia hardware before AMD knew that adaptive sync had been invented.
They in-fact went out of their way to argue that such features were not neccesary or beneficial and that has bitten them in the ass badly when you can't run even a 240hz monitor properly without it today - 144hz suffers - and their competition is pushing god-tier 360hz+ monitors meanwhile which run perfectly on cards that have the same perf/$ as RDNA2 offerings.
If I'm at 144/240hz, reflex barely makes a difference.
This is not accurate. Reflex makes an enormous difference if you're letting yourself get GPU bound - and even if you were carefully avoiding that before, with Reflex you don't have to run a second screen of monitoring sensors and spend hours tweaking your graphics settings and FPS limit to achieve that perfect result any more; it just works.
I've been playing games at 60% GPU load for months because in some scenes they're up at 90% and i can't let it hit 97%+ without adding a lot of lag, being able to just flatline 100% GPU load sometimes and not have a laggier game is amazing.
The end result depends on the game engine and how GPU-bound you are. There are demonstrated results with 144hz and 240hz panels of button-to-pixel latency being reduced to less than half of what it was in heavily GPU-bound scenarios by toggling reflex on in the engine.
It cannot be done without driver and engine side code working in tandem. AMD's anti-lag feature is on nowhere near the same scale and the "radeon boost" thing that they used on their main slides as a "reflex competitor" is absolutely useless trash that basically works by dropping your resolution whenever you're moving the mouse - it's a completely different thing, doesn't attempt to solve the same issue (which is one of, if not the absolute largest cause of button-to-pixel delay for the majority of gamers today) and nobody ever plays with it turned on because it's so bad.
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@ 00Zarathustra
RAM: 32GB 2x16 3200mhz vs 16GB 2x8 3200mhz
The frequency that the kit is sold as is not really relevant - the main thing that you can get from it is guessing the memory chips that the kit is using based on the frequency, timings and voltage that are displayed.
If you just buy 3200 16-18-18 bin, that's the worst ddr4 lottery and you will probably get an absolutely trash type of memory like samsung 8gbit c-die or hynix AFR which are limited to bad timings at slow clocks.
Depending on the amount of RAM you want, there are a handful of good configs:
16GB =
2x8GB single-rank 8gbit samsung b-die
2x8GB single-rank 8gbit nanya c-die(??)
2x8GB single-rank 8gbit hynix DJR
2x8GB single-rank 8gbit micron rev.e
2x8GB single-rank 8gbit hynix CJR
^higher on the list is better
2x8GB dual-rank 4gbit samsung e-die or maybe others is also an option but i dunno if these are routinely for sale nowadays.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
32GB =
2x16GB dual-rank 8gbit samsung b-die
2x16GB other dual-rank 8gbit IC's like DJR or rev.e
2x16GB single-rank 16gbit micron rev.b
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
64GB =
2x32GB dual-rank 16gbit micron rev.b
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There are some other options but that's basically the kind of stuff you would aim for to have good performance and the least amount of memory controller/motherboard trouble. For example, 4-DIMM configs are widely not optimal any more as x570/b550/z490 boards are basically all using configurations with either two DIMM slots (ideal for memory signal integrity) or with four slots wired in a highly-optimised "daisy chain" configuration - this gives much better signalling performance when only two of the four slots are filled.
B-die can be guaranteed with memory bins like 3200 14-14-14 or 3600 16-16-16 at 1.35v.
It's an 8gbit IC, so a single rank of it has 8GB capacity (8x 8gbit chips) and a dual-rank stick has 16GB capacity (16x 8gbit chips). Running two ranks per channel offers more memory performance, especially in systems that aren't heavily overclocked, but is harder for the memory controller to run at high frequencies.
Micron is guaranteed on some Crucial Ballistix memory with some kits being guaranteed rev.e or rev.b.
There are other tells depending on what you're looking for.
I know this is probably a lot more complicated than you were hoping for, but memory performance is one of the more critical variables to running games well nowadays - and some other productivity-style stuff as well. Buying good memory and setting some of the memory timings manually gives huge gains compared to running a lottery kit at auto settings. Since you mentioned Zen3 and a top end GPU i think it's likely to be important to you, the price difference between trash and great memory is not big and saves buying twice.
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On October 29 2020 07:26 00Zarathustra wrote:
Hey Guys, Im looking for a PC, I want to be able to play modern games on normal settings. I mostly play Starcraft: R but Iwould like to stream other games too. I also do some basic animation in Flash CS6, very old but I like it. My monitor is 1920x 1080. I will upgrade to 144mhz monitor in the future.
The most importan point is I want to upgrade in about a Year with Zen 3 and a top GPU. So going best bang for buck right now would be great.
Also I live in Argentina so talking about the price in dollars is useless. What I would like is to know If Im overkilling in some parts or if I am beeing too cheap in others.
This are the parts I am looking at rigth now.
MOBO: x570-P Prime vs TUF b550m Gaming. I think the Prime P is a very good MObo for its price, and x570 will be better for upgrades maybe?
CPU: Ryzen 5 3600 vs 3500 vs 3300x vs AF 1600. Here I would love the 3600 but I can save a lot without losing too much performance with the other options. So I'am willing to be flexible.
RAM: 32GB 2x16 3200mhz vs 16GB 2x8 3200mhz. Do I really need all that RAM? My reasoning is: If I upgrade in a Year I will not need any more ram If I get the 32Gb now. And it's the cheapest to overkill I think.
GPU: 1650super vs any Radeon or Nvidia that is cheaper. I think this GPU has everything I need for very little money. Good for streaming and gaming. But If there is some other good GPU that is as good for streaming and gaming let me know plz.
Storage: SDD PCI-E x4 m.2 512 vs 1TB. I know it doesnt make a difference in gaming, but here it is almost the same price as SATA. In a year from now I may not need another SDD If I get the 1 TB now.
Power: 500W 80+ bronze. This will be upgraded in a year if it needs to. I don't think PSU is a good place to overkill right now.
I think that's it. I am open to all suggestions and advice.
I'm thinking about changing de x570/b550 for a cheaper b450. I don`t think I can bottle neck PCI 3.0 yet I don't plan on overcloaking, a good b450 should be able to handle a ryzen 5000 CPU? Alson I don't think I will ever be using mor than 1 GPU or m.2 SSD, I will never fully use the x570 potential.
What will I miss If I stay in b450? maybe a b550 is better for the future? What on earth would I need an x570 for? Am I been too cheap?
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United Kingdom20297 Posts
On November 03 2020 02:19 00Zarathustra wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2020 07:26 00Zarathustra wrote:
Hey Guys, Im looking for a PC, I want to be able to play modern games on normal settings. I mostly play Starcraft: R but Iwould like to stream other games too. I also do some basic animation in Flash CS6, very old but I like it. My monitor is 1920x 1080. I will upgrade to 144mhz monitor in the future.
The most importan point is I want to upgrade in about a Year with Zen 3 and a top GPU. So going best bang for buck right now would be great.
Also I live in Argentina so talking about the price in dollars is useless. What I would like is to know If Im overkilling in some parts or if I am beeing too cheap in others.
This are the parts I am looking at rigth now.
MOBO: x570-P Prime vs TUF b550m Gaming. I think the Prime P is a very good MObo for its price, and x570 will be better for upgrades maybe?
CPU: Ryzen 5 3600 vs 3500 vs 3300x vs AF 1600. Here I would love the 3600 but I can save a lot without losing too much performance with the other options. So I'am willing to be flexible.
RAM: 32GB 2x16 3200mhz vs 16GB 2x8 3200mhz. Do I really need all that RAM? My reasoning is: If I upgrade in a Year I will not need any more ram If I get the 32Gb now. And it's the cheapest to overkill I think.
GPU: 1650super vs any Radeon or Nvidia that is cheaper. I think this GPU has everything I need for very little money. Good for streaming and gaming. But If there is some other good GPU that is as good for streaming and gaming let me know plz.
Storage: SDD PCI-E x4 m.2 512 vs 1TB. I know it doesnt make a difference in gaming, but here it is almost the same price as SATA. In a year from now I may not need another SDD If I get the 1 TB now.
Power: 500W 80+ bronze. This will be upgraded in a year if it needs to. I don't think PSU is a good place to overkill right now.
I think that's it. I am open to all suggestions and advice.
I'm thinking about changing de x570/b550 for a cheaper b450. I don`t think I can bottle neck PCI 3.0 yet I don't plan on overcloaking, a good b450 should be able to handle a ryzen 5000 CPU? Alson I don't think I will ever be using mor than 1 GPU or m.2 SSD, I will never fully use the x570 potential. What will I miss If I stay in b450? maybe a b550 is better for the future? What on earth would I need an x570 for? Am I been too cheap?
b550 is better bet
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United Kingdom20297 Posts
5900x shipped bois. It begins! Looks like i'l have it tomorrow, benchathon tonight and the next few days
some hilarious gains gen to gen showing up in reviews
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/MuqkOcJ.png)
This might even be getting gpu bound again, how many frames can ampere render!? :D :D
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EPT
