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I am looking to upgrade/build new, perhaps you could provide some tips, especially if I should keep my graphic card or buy
a new one.
My current CPU, mainboard and RAM and PSU are 8 years old and I am looking to replace that and the housing.
My last build was based on this thread and served me well for the time.
What is your current build?
Intel i5-3450k, 8 GB Ram, some 350 W PSU, AMD RX 480 8 GB
What is your monitor's native resolution?
1920x1080
Why do you want to upgrade? What do you want to achieve with the upgrade?
Looking to get stable 250 fps in Diabotical and have decent performance in other current games perhaps.
What is your budget?
500 € for CPU, Ram, MB, PSU, for GPU addtional 300.
What country will you be buying your parts in?
Germany
If you have any brand or retailer preferences, please specify.
have Amazon Prime, quick delivery would be nice. But other vendors are fine as well.
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On October 07 2020 07:51 Derity wrote:
I am looking to upgrade/build new, perhaps you could provide some tips, especially if I should keep my graphic card or buy
a new one.
My current CPU, mainboard and RAM and PSU are 8 years old and I am looking to replace that and the housing.
My last build was based on this thread and served me well for the time.
What is your budget?
500 € for CPU, Ram, MB, PSU, for GPU addtional 300.
If you have any brand or retailer preferences, please specify.
have Amazon Prime, quick delivery would be nice. But other vendors are fine as well.
I think you should start around here:
https://de.pcpartpicker.com/list/JqFyp2
It's up to you as to whether or not to re-use the GPU. Upgrading the GPU around €300 would get you roughly 50% more performance at the same settings - I'm not sure what your current system runs diabolical at, but if it's similar to CS:GO you might still be a little short of 250fps stable, but you should be over it on average - as a rough guess: https://www.gpucheck.com/game/counter-strike-global-offensive
If you can wait til roughly mid-Nov, prices of CPU/GPU might drop as the next generation stuff is launching literally this month, and those might drop a bit.
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Thanks for the tips. Will look into that.
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TBH, unless there's a sickeningly good combo deal, I'd keep the RX 480 for now, and upgrade if needed down the line. The current mid-range GPUs have been on the market for quite a while, so stock and sales are plentiful.
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Performance looks good, price is a big oof.
There's no 5700X sku, only a 5800X sku, so the 5800X is probably going to be really unpopular compared to the 5700X/5900X.
If benchmarks after launch agree, they'll have fully taken over the market leader position from Intel in all applications for the first time in forever.
Edit:
Thinking about it, the 5600X is still not great value when compared to the 3600, but for anything above budget (Probably 800-1000 USD) gaming builds, it'll still be king. Gotta wait for benchmarks, but their gaming numbers were pretty promising. Equal or better than 10900k is a high bar.
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I don't think upgrading my 3700X is an emergency at the moment, so I'll wait until mid-next year to see what's what. Plus getting the PS5 is going to put a damper on my spending for the foreseeable future.
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The biggest draw for me is the 1080 gaming for LoL (+21% vs 10900k) and CS:GO (+19% vs 10900k). These are both pretty single thread bound games, and odds are this will translate to SC2 and other single thread bound games that this community cares more about.
The 3000 series is still good value. A 3600 at $180 isn't really in the same ballpark as a 5700X at $299, and a 3700X at around the same price as 5700X is still good. No cooler with the higher end 5000 series parts either, so there's a bit of a constraint there as well.
I don't forsee the 3000 series going anywhere til Q2 next year when 5000 series CPUs are readily available and more lower end SKUs are launched.
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
The biggest gains are because of the cache/memory performance of the threads that are in use. This is an area that SC2 is moderately sensitive in (waaaaaaay more important than the average workload, but doesn't scale as much as some other games like SOTTR and FH4).
It wouldn't surprise me to see something like +35% gen over gen, the core simulation thread getting 32MB of L3 instead of 16MB to play with is huge and the large improvements to the frontend, execution units and clock bump will only help.
Some of the gaming perf. gains can be predicted by looking at the L3 cache double from Zen+ to Zen2 and by looking at the memory performance scaling of the game on Zen2. There's a strong trend of the most latency sensitive games showing larger improvements from Zen2 to Zen3/Skylake.
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Lower end cost-effective sku's are not launching on day 1 for binning and supply reasons. The list will likely look like this in a matter of months:
5600 - $249
5600x - $299
5700x - $389
5800x - $449
5900x - $549
5950x - $799
Rocketlake could claw a small lead in low-threaded cache/memory sensitive loads in a couple quarters but given that it has half as many cores as Vermeer there is nothing that will stand a chance against this for quite a while
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I locked myself into this platform a while ago, anyway, largely to explore the arch. I'l be buying a 5900x on day one and comparing as many workloads as i can get my hands on with fully tuned memory (every single timing etc) to post (:
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The memory controller is supposedly the same as zen 2, so probably same memory settings for zen 3 as zen 2. Maybe one speed bin higher judging by the 3x00XT chips.
I think I'm going to just suck it up and get the 5800X. I'd like to get the 5700X but I want an upgrade now rather than later.
Looking forward to your results Cyro, I'm expecting it to be a monster.
Tossing it in an ITX box is a bit of a waste though for me, I'm not really making the most of the TDP difference.
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
The memory controller is supposedly the same as zen 2
Yeah, that's somewhat disappointing but it's not really an issue since that controller can daily 5000mt/s already. It's still the world's best, it just wasn't improved.
so probably same memory settings for zen 3 as zen 2
Currently ideal memory frequencies are gated by the interconnect frequency which is limited by the signal integrity through the substrate; this link is getting much shorter on zen3 because of the chiplet redesign. It will connect to the close edge of the CCD instead of having to go all of the way to the middle of it which is actually pretty big when considering the size and distance from the I/O die.
Some people that supposedly have hardware on hand (which is plausible but obviously unproven, public bios's have supported it for like a month already) report IF clocks in the 2200's as standard.
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That sounds pretty plausible to me.
It's reducing the trace length to I/O die by at least 1/3 and avoiding any interference from the cores the traces go under.
![[image loading]](https://images.anandtech.com/doci/16148/1%20Slide%207.jpg)
It'd be interesting to see just how far you can take Zen 3, and if memory clocking is going to be even more important than it was on Zen 2 despite the massive memory IPC gains already added.
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Looking to upgrade to a bigger monitor. I have an old 1920x1080 monitor with 60hz. It's decent, but I am thinking about getting a bigger resolution and faster refresh rate.
I sometimes play old games in 1024x768, black bars on the side, any problems there with a big widescreen curved monitor? I also might play SC2 and other games with minimaps and fixed window size, how annoying is it to run a letterbox? I have a GTX 980, so a somewhat older card - is that good enough to run at higher resolutions (the new DOOM for example)?
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
On October 09 2020 07:19 TheFish7 wrote:
Looking to upgrade to a bigger monitor. I have an old 1920x1080 monitor with 60hz. It's decent, but I am thinking about getting a bigger resolution and faster refresh rate.
I sometimes play old games in 1024x768, black bars on the side, any problems there with a big widescreen curved monitor? I also might play SC2 and other games with minimaps and fixed window size, how annoying is it to run a letterbox? I have a GTX 980, so a somewhat older card - is that good enough to run at higher resolutions (the new DOOM for example)?
You can always have black bars, if it doesn't annoy you now it should be fine on any new monitor.
980 will limit perf. quite a lot for higher resolution and refresh rates. It can run about 1080p60 on Doom Eternal but more resolution or frames requires something faster and more modern.
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Thanks for the advice. I realized recently that my display is my biggest limiting factor; I haven't found a game yet that drops my framerate noticeably and after digging through benchmarks the best I could do with a new box without spending a stupid amount is roughly double-triple the benchmark point scores of my hardware, which I think is a waste since I play older games about 75% of the time. So I'm gonna wait on a hardware upgrade for now.
I'm in a smallish NYC apartment and the omega-widescreens are roughly the size of my desk which seems silly. So I'm going to get a regular 2560x1440 size one. I just need to decide if I splurge for a newer 240hz one like the samsung odyssey g7 with the plan of upgrading hardware into it in the future, or if I go more middle-of-the-road to save a few hundred bucks.
+ Show Spoiler +Current specs
Intel Core i7-4790K @ 4.0Ghz (overclocked)
Geforce GTX 980
16GB GDDR3
2x 500gb SSD
Samsung Syncmaster SA550
Win 10 pro
Edit: I think I will upgrade to a ~144hz monitor (looking at Asus VG32VQ/VG27AQ) and also pick up a RTX 2060. Cheaper than the samsung odyssey and I can actually enable g-sync. Just worried about if my cpu would bottleneck too hard 
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
Just worried about if my cpu would bottleneck too hard
It depends on the game and settings as to if your CPU or GPU would have worse performance.
Some like starcraft 2 will be extremely CPU-limited even with a gtx980. These days some stuff will be fine on a haswell quad core but other stuff won't run very well. Ideally you have at least a skylake or zen2 6c12t.
Higher resolution increases the graphics demand, but not the CPU demand. Framerate increases both.
Even if you're only playing at 60fps, having a higher refresh rate monitor greatly reduces input lag.
Having higher refresh rate or gsync also substantially improves the smoothness of the frame delivery because there isn't nearly as bad of a mismatch between the variable frame times and the refresh timing on the monitor that way. I'd never have anyone game on 60hz unsynced, i view it as the dark ages in between CRT monitors and affordable 120hz lcd's :D
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On October 08 2020 04:58 Lmui wrote:
TBH, unless there's a sickeningly good combo deal, I'd keep the RX 480 for now, and upgrade if needed down the line. The current mid-range GPUs have been on the market for quite a while, so stock and sales are plentiful.
Well, it seems that my RX480 is defective, which is very sad since the card was actually pretty good and the 8 GB helped a lot for playing Doom back then
I am not sure if I am capable to fix it (if I would have to replace components on the board, I could not do it).
Since I also cannot wait till mid November, what would be a valuable card right now?
Would it be worth to even spend about 300 EUR on a card right now? Is 8 GB memory compared to 6 even noticeable?
If I were to use only integrated graphics for the next 4 weeks, would that make even sense? If estimated price drops would be "only" 50 EUR, I would probably not wait right now.
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Defective in what way? If it stopped working completely that usually means something burned out on the IC and I'd say you'd have a hard time fixing it assuming you could find the replacement part to solder on. Here's one of mine that burned out (had a pair of 780s both fail this way a year or two apart)
![[image loading]](https://i.ibb.co/4WCCCqP/20200509-225614-1.jpg)
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On October 15 2020 06:40 Craton wrote:Defective in what way? If it stopped working completely that usually means something burned out on the IC and I'd say you'd have a hard time fixing it assuming you could find the replacement part to solder on. Here's one of mine that burned out (had a pair of 780s both fail this way a year or two apart) + Show Spoiler +
Cannot get any signal on the monitor - simply black screen, tried with 2 different boards, both show VGA error.
Fans not starting.
Also, my old PC just suddenly switched off and would not start again so it could very well be that the card is well beyond repair.
Seems not uncommon according to google search results.
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On October 15 2020 06:53 Derity wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2020 06:40 Craton wrote:Defective in what way? If it stopped working completely that usually means something burned out on the IC and I'd say you'd have a hard time fixing it assuming you could find the replacement part to solder on. Here's one of mine that burned out (had a pair of 780s both fail this way a year or two apart) + Show Spoiler + Cannot get any signal on the monitor - simply black screen, tried with 2 different boards, both show VGA error. Fans not starting. Also, my old PC just suddenly switched off and would not start again so it could very well be that the card is well beyond repair. Seems not uncommon according to google search results.
It's unlikely to be fixable without far more knowledge and tools than the average person has acccess to.
There's nothing wrong with building a new PC in your budget at the moment. It looks like both AMD and nvidia are only releasing high-end components this year, with nothing really to offer the sub $1000 PC market except old parts (I guess the 5600X is marginal) til next year. The only thing you could hope for is a price drop on existing stuff, but even that's a gamble at best (+/- $25-50 is the max I'd guess).
Somewhere around this is a pretty balanced system - GPU-wise it's kinda awkward between the 1660 Super and 2060 Super where Nvidia has a bit of a hole in their lineup that the 5600XT neatly fills. The 1660 super is a fair bit better value than the 5600 XT in exchange for a bit of performance.
https://de.pcpartpicker.com/list/7MTsYg
As far as GPUs go, I usually go to techpowerup, look at the reviews and the latest fan/noise charts for a particular card. Performance for all cards of a certain type are pretty close, so noise is king IMO.
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EPT
