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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
~2x 1080 performance in games at higher resolutions/qualities. It's massively faster for compute, and about equal performance per watt vs. a 2080 TI in games. Performance per dollar is definitely the biggest draw of this generation. Unless you're interested in 4k gaming, or absolutely need 144Hz with settings maxed at QHD/UWQHD in high end titles, a 3070 might be a better option rather than getting the GPU space heater that is the 3080. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
~2x 1080 performance in games at higher resolutions/qualities. Bit more i'd say. I also prefer to compare by launch MSRP class; that puts the 1080ti ($700), 2080 ($700) and 3080 ($700) together. Doom Eternal is one of the more favored non-RTX games and the 3080 runs 95-115% faster than the 1080ti at 1080p-4k. Doom is also one of the games i've been interested in, because i tried to play it on my 1080ti and found that i couldn't get the performance where i wanted it. There were multiple issues at first that were hard to pin down, but when microsoft patched some of the CPU scheduler problems it became clear that Pascal-based cards just can't run that game at high framerates no matter what. Even 360p minimum settings cannot sustain 200fps on a 1080ti. The more resolution or settings you add, the further away it gets. If you give up on playing at a high framerate and instead go up to 1080p max then you will drop below 120 sometimes which is not exactly the 240-360hz dream. A 2000 series card (even one of "less" performance, like replacing a 1080ti with a 2070) allows for more FPS at lower res and it seems that 3000 can do even more still. That thing is putting out way more FPS in 1080p max real gameplay than i get staring at a wall on 360p minimum. ![[image loading]](https://tpucdn.com/review/nvidia-geforce-rtx-3080-founders-edition/images/doom-eternal-1920-1080.png) A 3070 may be a good option, or maybe not. It really depends how certain games scale since 3070 is giving up so much compared to the 3080. The 3080 has 48% more SM's, 70% more memory bandwidth and a memory technology which uses significantly less power-per-bit. If a game is more memory-limited then it may perform relatively poorly on the 3070, while if it's heavy on FPU shader work it wouldn't lose nearly as much performance. Whichever way it goes, the 3070 will be more memory-limited than the 3080 as it has fewer bits of data per SM per unit of time. Just based on simple extrapolation from 3080 perf. there is no way in hell that the 3070 "as fast as a 2080ti" thing is holding up. If it's ever true it will be in specific highly-niche loads rather than an average of an array of game benchmarks. Watch TPU add it to their DoomE benchmark in a few days.. i can't see it scoring more than 215fps (at the high end!) against the 255 of the 2080ti and 304 of the 3080. We don't have a 970 vs 980 situation on our hands where there's a 22% perf. difference between the cards. The 3080 looks like it will be around double that on average, sometimes much more. The performance per dollar should actually be similar between both cards. ----- Also to respond to this part of your message and about equal performance per watt vs. a 2080 TI in games. TPU 4k average has a 17.6% perf/watt advantage (3080 > 2080) at reference powers, that's non-negligable. Ampere has "redlined" the clocks out of the box however. If you compare iso-power to turing, the advantage is more like 40%. This is actually a great way to run the cards, especially the cheaper ones, as you can give up just a small amount of performance (think 5%) to massively drop the temperatures and noise. If you compare iso-performance (niche, but some people might want to do this) it's supposedly 90%. ------ Zotac reports that their 3080 Trinity has 20,000 pre-orders via amazon.de alone. One card, one site. God help us all. | ||
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Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
On September 21 2020 11:23 Cyro wrote: Zotac reports that their 3080 Trinity has 20,000 pre-orders via amazon.de alone. One card, one site. God help us all. I don't expect to see any in stock on a shelf reliably til next year, and intermittent stock appearing in November. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_semiconductor_fabrication_plants Samsung 8nm is an offshoot of their 10nm, so they have two 10nm capable fabs with a capacity of 262000 wafer starts a month. Hard to guess yields on a chip that big, but they can't be all that good with the massive die size. It really depends on how much of that capacity Nvidia managed to acquire. They get somewhere around 256 dies/wafer according to: https://caly-technologies.com/die-yield-calculator/ but it's unknown what level of yield. Too many variables for a good guess unfortunately as to production volumes, but if they're pumping out 10k wafers, at 200 good die/month, that's already 2 mil 3080s a month which is sounds too high. 1k wafers is 200k 3080s which wouldn't really satiate the demand, so it's somewhere between those values I'd guess. It depends on how many are on boats right now crossing the pacific. I'm planning to get this once Zen 3 is released some time late october or maybe nearer to black friday. https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/X6mvL2 3800X is a placeholder for the price I expect for the 4700X, it'll run stock unless I feel it's too noisy fans will probably be arctic P12 if I can find a place selling the 5pack. GPU will be a reused gtx 1080 and reused storage, and I'm going to go with whatever runs best around the 250W mark as an upgrade whenever a WQHD 240hz flat monitor with good colors comes out, pretty much whenever a flat version of the samsung G7 releases. Fucking prices are ludicrous though at the moment. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5119 Posts
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Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
On September 22 2020 06:05 Uldridge wrote: I don't really understand why you'd ever want anything above 120 fps. Am I missing some kung fu physics/biology here, or is it all about having the big hardware dick? Serious question, poorly worded. Why wouldn't you? You could reword what you said to "24fps" and it would fit just as well. You could also say the same about resolutions over any arbitrary value e.g. 720p ("HD"). Higher framerates improve smoothness, reduce the largest source of motion blur on modern displays, reduce input lag and mitigate/remove a wide variety of visual artifacts that come from trying to represent reality (essentially infinite framerate) with a low sample rate. Dialling up the framerate is similarly important to dialling up resolution - arguably even more so for interactive media. Making a display indistinguishable from reality requires each pixel to refresh once per pixel of movement and also require the resolution to be high enough so that each discrete step from pixel to pixel is small enough to be undetectable to our senses. For a 25 inch screen that takes resolutions over 4k and refresh rates in the 1000 to 10,000hz range just in theory. While this condition is met, objects in motion appear to "flow" from one pixel to the next rather than jumping over most of them on the way. Current graphics/display design research is deeply invested in interpolating or faking many of these frames - or giving up some quality in less noticable areas - in a low-latency way to make them very cheap while maintaining many of the benefits of high update rates. You don't neccesarily need to poll the position of everything every 1ms if you know where it was 5ms ago and you can fill in the blanks. Obviously as we approach reality there are diminishing returns, each time we half the distance between reality and what we currently have it seems to be a smaller change but it's still enormous right now. Maybe you've heard of VR displays? They currently have to use hacky tricks like backlight strobing because otherwise the motion blur inherant to capture-and-hold ~90-120hz displays is just too high for humans to use comfortably, it makes people vomit. Granted, 1920x1080 with a perfectly locked and set up 120fps is an excellent experience on a desktop screen that would blow most peoples minds. We can do already do better though and it's often more noticable to play with additional performance rather than additional graphics settings. If there is affordable hardware that can do framerate, resolution and graphics all at the same time then that's perfect. | ||
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Craton
United States17281 Posts
On September 22 2020 09:16 Cyro wrote: Why wouldn't you? You could reword what you said to "24fps" and it would fit just as well. Except it doesn't because the level of return is significantly less. There's no need to be pedantic. | ||
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TelecoM
United States10710 Posts
https://www.amazon.com/SkyTech-ArchAngel-Gaming-Computer-Quad-Core/dp/B077QDM2DP/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=skytech gaming pc&qid=1600817111&sr=8-5 ^ ^ This computer, will it be good enough to play StarCraft : Remastered / Stream on? If you have another better recommendation, please PM me or let me know, I greatly appreciate it. I am tired of playing BW Remastered with on board Vega 8 Graphics. T_T | ||
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Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
On September 23 2020 08:32 TelecoM wrote: Hey guys, I honestly don't really want to sit and build the computer b/c i'm a stoner and I may make a mistake, and I can afford a pre built although everyone keeps saying don't get it. My question is this... https://www.amazon.com/SkyTech-ArchAngel-Gaming-Computer-Quad-Core/dp/B077QDM2DP/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=skytech gaming pc&qid=1600817111&sr=8-5 ^ ^ This computer, will it be good enough to play StarCraft : Remastered / Stream on? If you have another better recommendation, please PM me or let me know, I greatly appreciate it. I am tired of playing BW Remastered with on board Vega 8 Graphics. T_T Nothing wrong with a prebuilt. There's a lot of better options though, especially if you want to stream a bit that don't involve a dated CPU. I looked through some of newegg/microcenters prebuilts and these are probably the best balanced around the same price. You do not want a computer that's hard drive only. https://www.microcenter.com/product/626438/hp-pavilion-gaming-computer - $649 https://www.newegg.com/abs-computer-technologies-ala194/p/N82E16883102945 - $700 I'd get the newegg pc if you can drop $50 more since you get a lot for the money in a better CPU and GPU. | ||
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TelecoM
United States10710 Posts
EDIT : The reviews seem terrible on the aBs one, even if they gave 5 stars , it's a terrible review lol | ||
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Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
If you want decent quality, and are willing to toss a few hours at it: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/sHVFWb This is slightly more expensive, but has far better quality parts, and will hold up significantly better in the long run. Main places you pay more for are: 1. RAM 2. Better PSU At this price level, the quality of prebuilts is mediocre. If you were purchasing something more expensive, the assembly services of Microcenter or similar stores might be worthwhile, but the money is better spent on components at this price level. | ||
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TelecoM
United States10710 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
On September 22 2020 12:28 Craton wrote: Except it doesn't because the level of return is significantly less. For some factors yes, for others no. I'm not being pedantic, just explaining the basics since it was asked about. Any threshold number is arbitrary. | ||
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TelecoM
United States10710 Posts
EDIT : https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08CV9KYQT/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1 Most likely getting this PC with the eyecare Asus monitor. Any feedback on this PC? Thanks. | ||
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Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
On September 23 2020 11:40 TelecoM wrote: Guys, why is buying a pre built so bad? Isn't there any good pre built I can stream BW Remastered with on a budget or SC2 even for that matter these days for under 1K? Seems so hard to find. EDIT : https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08CV9KYQT/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1 Most likely getting this PC with the eyecare Asus monitor. Any feedback on this PC? Thanks. As a general rule, manufacturers are going to cut as many corners as absolutely possible. You'll run into all sorts of corner cutting, generally with parts that don't obviously impact performance like slow RAM, lower end motherboard/PSU etc. For the one you linked, first off, the pictures don't match the spec - The motherboard is a Gigabyte B450m DS3H, but specs say A320, and there's two sticks of RAM. More than likely, you'd have 1x8gb instead of 2x4gb. You're getting a bottom of the barrel motherboard from 2 generations ago, the cheapest ryzen CPU - It will work for gaming, but streaming + gaming may prove to be difficult, 8GB of RAM is actually going to bottleneck you in some workloads, and you're still paying someone to assemble it for you. For playing BW remastered, it'll work fine though. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11817 Posts
If you find a prebuilt setup, look at all the details, and look that specific part up. If it doesn't tell you the specific name of a part, expect the cheapest shit possible and ideally avoid. You can also consider buying a used PC on eBay or something. That will probably give you more bang for your money, but it has the added risk of shorter lifespans of the parts. | ||
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TelecoM
United States10710 Posts
https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Pavilion-Desktop-Gaming-PC-w-256GB-SSD-AMD-Ryzen-5-TG01-0023w-NEW-CR/303701471256?epid=10040420578&hash=item46b604b018:g:GgQAAOSwq4tfanmR How's this one look? Thanks for all of your input, I really appreciate it. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11817 Posts
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TelecoM
United States10710 Posts
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Simberto
Germany11817 Posts
But you can have bad experiences. For example, i bought a PC with a "750W PSU". A few years later, i upgraded my graphics card. And suddenly my computer started to randomly reboot from time to time, especially when playing games under heavy load for some period of time. It took me a lot of time to diagnose this. It turned out that my "750W PSU" was a piece of shit that could actually only consistently deliver half of that, and had random power outages when the system demanded more. It also ate a lot more power than necessary and probably cost me a bunch of money in power bills over the years. But anything you can buy from a well-known company will work in some way. | ||
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